MovieChat Forums > In the Land of Blood and Honey (2012) Discussion > Movie is not good but surely not biased.

Movie is not good but surely not biased.

posted 10 years ago by eerolt
8 replies | jump to latest

I didnt like it. From plot to script, acting to cinematography it is not properly made.

On the other hand some people claim it is biased on bosnian side. This is totally wrong.

About Yugoslavian civil war ( or you may call bosnian war) there are some ''facts'' you should all be aware of before discussing if the movie is biased.

Did Serbs killed unarmed civilians? Tens of Thousands...

Did Bosnians killed unarmed civilians? Hundreds...

Did Serbs systematically took Bosnian women and raped them or forced them to be sex slaves?

Tens of thousands ( the number can be even higher because for muslim women rape is a huge shame and it is thought that most of them didnt report the rape to authorities)

Did Bosnians rape Serb women? Not a ''single'' report or claim on it. Again not even 1 case in Hague ( Hague is an international tribune on war crimes)

So you may not like the movie I agree it is rubbish.

But if you are a Serb or Christian Orthodox and get annoyed by the storyline for telling the the truth about how Serbs systematically raped muslim Bosnian women, it is your guilty conscious talking for letting this happen.

Same goes to Muslim people who let IS rape women in Iraq and Syria just because they are from another ethnic origin or religion.

[–] vojkan087 9 years ago

Did you take time to do a proper, 21st century research? No.You got stuck in 1995.

On the other hand some people claim it is biased on bosnian side. This is totally wrong.

Actually the only thing both good and bad reviews of the movie agree upon is that Angelina followed a very one sided approach.

Having in mind the complexity of the civil war in Bosnia, all the sides, religions, nations included, this movie is ridiculously black and white, even more than 1950's WWII themed movies were.

About Yugoslavian civil war ( or you may call bosnian war) there are some ''facts'' you should all be aware of before discussing if the movie is biased.

You were right in putting those '''' on the word fact, as we shall see below. You presented no facts whatsoever.

Did Serbs killed unarmed civilians? Tens of Thousands...

Hm, no such conclusion can be made.

We have only general number of civilian Muslim deaths (cca 30.000). But those are caused in two separate wars (Serb-Muslim, and Croat-Muslim) and represend a sum figure of casualties caused by Serb armed forces, Croat armed forces and Muslim armed forces (Muslims factions fought each other, most prominently in the Bihac region, and including collateral damage).

Those are casualties of war (35% of which, as is usual in warfare, happened during the sieges of the cities like Sarajevo, Bihac, Prijedor, Zvornik, Srebenica...)

Therefore ''...Serbs killed...'' is a misleading and ultimately false phrase.

Did Bosnians killed unarmed civilians? Hundreds...

Same as above. Though, you might want to consult some facts. You are looking at several thousands killed (not including Muslims they killed) rather than hundreds (or was that an honest mistake).

Did Serbs systematically took Bosnian women and raped them or forced them to be sex slaves?

Tens of thousands ( the number can be even higher because for muslim women rape is a huge shame and it is thought that most of them didnt report the rape to authorities)

False. As I said, 1995 (maybe even 1992).

Myth of ''rape camps'' was started by Bosnian Muslim officials who repeatedly reported ''300.000 dead Muslims'' or ''200.000 Bosniaks(Muslims) were killed and tens of thousands Muslim women raped''.

Real figure(s), however, are up to 7 times (or 3x if you include military loses) smaller, as proven by various international teams, including the Hague tribunal one led by Eva Tabo.

As for the ''systematic rape'', it is actually one the worst hoaxes of the war.

When the inventor of 60.000 raped Muslim women (twice as much as the combined Serb force on the ground?!),journalist Tom Post, was asked where did he get the number, when he had found only 24 victims of rape it total. He replied ''the number came from (Muslim president) Alija Izetbegovic and Bosnian Government''

Formidable evidence indeed.

So, when official UN investigation teams which followed the ''tens of thousands victims from numerous rape camps'' allegations,went to the field to inspect...They in fact found - cca 100 (one hundred) documented cases of rape or connected to rape, including some of which turned out to be nothing more than a random newspaper article.

UN commision had found only 40 victims of rape[/b]. Later European expert team interviewed only four (4). No expert team ever since had found any evidence of existence of ANY such rape camp in Bosnia, or ''systematic'' raping conducted by Serb forces, or any other forces for that matter.

Tens of thousands raped women would top combined military casalties of the entire conflict, of all 3 sides, so there would be an abundance of evidence...regardless of the supposed shame brought upon the conservative Muslims.

No evidence was ever found, not even a reasonable doubt.

So tens of thousands systematically raped women are in fact several dozen chaotic cases of rape, the unfortunate result of any war.

As famous jouralist Herb Brin put it, Bosnia was neither better nor wrose than any other conflict in the world (speaking about the crime of rape).

Or to quote French journalist: “When I was 50 kilometers from Tuzla, I heard: ‘Go to the Tuzla gymnasium, there are 4,000 raped women.’ At 20 kilometers the figure went down to 400. At 100 kilometer there were no more than 40. And on the spot I found 4 women who agreed to testify.” – Jacques Merlino

Did Bosnians rape Serb women? Not a ''single'' report or claim on it. Again not even 1 case in Hague ( Hague is an international tribune on war crimes)

Actually. That is one of the main problems. One side made a marketing out of its victims, while the other remained unheard. You are shockingly wrong.

There were dozens of reports. The UN Security Council report of 1992. would make that into hundreds. Officials from the Bosnian Serbs give a list of around 200 testimonies, and give dozens of names of perpetrators. While the number can be questioned (same as Muslim one has to be) it just confirms the usual war time practice of comitting such crimes. Nothing out of ordinary (however odd the term might sound).

So singling out Muslim victims is truly distasteful, offensive and is ultimately defeating the purpose of the movie.

Or are Serb (and Croat, why not, Croats and Muslims fought a two year war) victims less important than Muslim. Since it is long time proven they weren't more numerous.

[–] Moesislak 9 years ago

UN reports showed that while both sides did awful things, the Serbs did it on a mu h lsrger scale, by the millions of deaths and hundreds of thousands of rapes.

[–] EJverh 9 years ago

Good luck explaining this to the Serbs lol. Apparently the entire world, especially us, the Americans, are 'spreading lies' about them. At least Germans had the grace to own up and disown the Nazism. Serbs are rewriting history with the blinders on. The most unfortunate thing about this is that in it they won't connect with their own humanity and value of truth however painful it may be and it will result in more tens of thousand innocent people being slaughtered, women raped and children orphaned. We're supposed to learn from history so that we might prevent other similar atrocities like these. This won't happen ever as they refuse to even aknowledge that it had happened, much less apologize. Very sad.

[–] vojkan087 9 years ago

How exactly do you expect him to ''explain'' to Serbs that they supposedly killed millions of people when the entire death toll of the 4 years of war, and 3 separate conflicts (Muslims against Serbs, Croats against Serbs, Croats against Muslims) didn't produce more than around 100,000 casualties, military casualties included, on all sides.

What is more the entire population of Bosnia including non Muslim population, was around 4mil. And some 40% were Muslims.

So Serbs (alone?) wiped out several times more population than there was to begin with? Including their own 1.5mil, and their own soldiers. Interesting...

As for grace and Nazism.

SERBIA

Serbs actually brought down the dictator who shared responsibility for igniting the conflict with Croat President, and Bosnian/Muslim president. After 10 years of constant riots, from 1991 to 2001, more than a million Serbs forcefully overthrew the ex Communist president in large riots in 5.10.2001. The only country whose government officially apologized for wartime destruction was Serbia, the only country that doesn't celebrate any event from the war is Serbia.

CROATIA

Meanwhile Croats, since 1991, actually US ally in that war, hailed their, now late, president - active supporter of extreme right wing politics and founder of the right wing party, sympathetic to WWII Nazi collaborators and extremely hostile to non Croat minorities etc.- still refuse to acknowledge the fact their leadership/army forcefully displaced cca 250,000 ethnic Serbs in 1995. (something even US doesn't deny). What is more, one of the biggest forced displacements of people since WWII, done by Croats, operation Storm, is now celebrated as a national holiday - the large parade was held this August. You should know your own country refused to take part in the celebration, although it has been advertised as a honorary guest, same as all former allies.

This man, banned throughout Europe for his open support of Nazism, held a concert in Croatia on the celebration day. He is never banned there, since he was important piece of wartime propaganda https://nakederic.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/thompsonnazi.jpg

BOSNIA

As for Muslims, another US ally in that war, since the war, produced one of the most elaborate and key networks of Al Qaeda in Balkans, whose representatives are seen here, during the war, with Bosnian president. https://theremustbejustice.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/172834_082124s8_origh.jpg
Bosnia will, on the foundation of the help it received in 1993, become one of the biggest training and recruitment centers for Islamists in Europe. Those same Bosnian veterans will later take part in 9/11, such was the case with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was then called ''a humanitarian in Bosnia''.

It is also a fact that Bin Laden was given a Bosnian passport during the war, like a gratitude gift for his services. This is the army Angelina refused to portray in the movie, the army that fought the 'evil' Serbs:

http://banjalukain.com/media/pictures/2011/06/24/b01aca86063243cf65b54f8cd7d7d8ad.jpg

http://auto.img.v4.skyrock.net/5922/15605922/pics/1368406576.jpg

Today, Bosnia produces the largest number of ISIS volunteers from Europe.

That same innocent Bosnia that ''defended'' itself against the ''invasion'' of its own, though non Muslim population.

Yeah, so I agree with the lesson learning, but you are addressing it to the wrong people.

[–] EJverh 8 years ago

Your only problem here is timeline. Yes, all sides took place in fighting and horrific acts (you forgot in your various rants to mention one very important detail-Croats joined Serbs too in some parts, against Bosniaks, as they were called, not Muslim). Timeline is something that always ends up poking holes in your 'testimonials' and that's why 'the whole world' is against you as you claim.
I won't even dignity your remarks about systematic rape as your disturbing casual downgrading of it speaks more about you than anything. But the Croatia had a reason to celebrate. It was the day that led to their independence. With smuggled weapons (because your Serbian army took everything that the former Yugoslavia had in Belgrade) they fought the Serbs who attacked Croatia strategically based on the map from Chetniks from WWII. Dubrovnik, ans the entire Southern peninsula attacked by forces, from air AND the sea, was a part of your intended claim on the land you never ever owned or occupied (hell, Croatia was the only country in thd region that was
never occupied by the powerful Ottoman empire). You failed, against all odds, miserably during that and underestimated the Croatian resolve in the overwhelming uprising. The operation Storm was a huge success of pushing you out and some of what you would call 'ususal' wartime atrocities against the civilians were committed, the perpetrators accused and convicted.
They had a map for what the Bosnia should look like, too. Like Croatia, they wanted the territory close to Serbia, but didn't want the civilian minorities who weren't Serbs. The solution? Execute all of them and place them in mass graves. The irony is this: the whole world condemned it, but they still got that territory they accumulated by such ethnic cleansing (I didn't make up the term).
So, the moral of the story is this: next time, don't start any such wars and ambitious claims on territory that doesn't belong to you, if you don't want to see the horrible results it produces by all sides of such forced conflict. Cause if this was me, I tell you, if I found out that the Chetniks slaughtered my entire family whose graves I can't even ever visit, or assemble the entire body parts, well there's no telling what I might do in revenge, not even excluding committing the same atrocities as you did against your innocent civilians...
This is the feeling I get watching the same horrible acts done now in the world by Jihadists. In me, there would he nothing left than bloody anger and again there's no telling what I might be capable of doing....

[–] vojkan087 8 years ago

I thought for a while should I do another 1000 word post refuting every single of your points, trying to make sense of the convoluted mess of semi-facts and fairy tales in your post...but after seeing sentences with:

your Serbian army

part of your intended claim

You failed

I decided against it. It became rather obvious you don't exactly care about facts or work on factual basis. You have an agenda, and no amount of fact will change it. You presented a fictitious version of the war (in a very bitter, biased anti-Serbian tone) misinterpreting its causes, events, motives and consequences. That is a version that even the moderate Croats and Muslims wouldn't support today (maybe during the actual war some of them did, since you can hardly see the broader context while the bombs fly over your head, and you didn't have any freedom of media whatsoever).

Your version, for those who might not know, belongs to the most extreme, blinded nationalists, or those living under a rock for two decades. The other end of that extremist spectrum is the Serb claim (ironically using the same WWII reference, same self-victimisation, same genocide/ethnic cleansing reference etc). Truth is, as always somewhere in the middle.

This is the feeling I get watching the same horrible acts done now in the world by Jihadists. In me, there would he nothing left than bloody anger and again there's no telling what I might be capable of doing....

Ironically enough, those are the same Jihadists who fought in Bosnia, on the Muslim side. Same Jihadists who Angelina, and you, now whitewash.

Interesting that you condemn Bosnian Serbs for their real and fabricated crimes while fully accepting that seeing horrible acts (for the purpose of sanitizing this board, try googling Muslim crimes in Bosnia to see a plethora of mind-blowingly twisted techniques of torture, mutilation, rape/humiliation, forced Islamisation etc. the ''peace loving'' Bosniaks - or Bosnian Muslims, employed and mastered during that war) would have left you in ''bloody anger'' and ''there (would be) no telling what (you) might be capable of doing...''

[–] sire021 8 years ago

You nailed it mate. No matter how hard is to argue with a party that victimizes itself on instinct, and resorts to goebbelsian tactics (if you repeat a lie a 100 times it becomes true), it is paramount one responds calmly with well supported facts and sound logic like you did. Kudos to you.

[–] deanpeters55 8 years ago

I don't get why you care about the opions of what seems like Americans who are killing muslim civilians like hotcakes or strongly support countries that do, Country that lies to the first responders at 9/11 about health risks and now try to screw them out of healtcare because mostly got cancer and such, portraying killers as hero's like American Sniper guy who got killed by a fellow soldier because lack of mentalsupport/health. Having Trump as a serious candidate tells enough about the people and the country and dismisses themselves as awhole.