Black Adam too powerful for Superman? - Superman/Shazam!: The Return of Black Adam (2010) Discussion

[–] Otaku-sempai 14 years ago

Captain Marvel and Superman are nearly equal in strength. I imagine that being magically-based gives Black Adam an edge over Superman. We've seen Marvel use his magic lightning as a weapon against Superman in the graphic novel Kingdom Come. Adam would probably use the same tactic.

"Glenn Beck has Nazi Tourette's!" - Lewis Black

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[–] superturbo4 14 years ago

Originally Otaku-Sempai, that was Black Adam's tactic that he used against Captain Marvel in the Shazam comics of the late 70's. Using the magic lightning bolt to hit an opponent in that manner. Artist Alex Ross and writer Mark Waid obviously took those stories and hinted upon them in Kingdom Come for Captain Marvel to use against Superman in battle is all!

Cap uses it in Kingdom Come making it his move, but it was originally Black Adam's. Marvel even thinks of using such a move against Superman in their classic Superman Vs Shazam large collectors sized 'graphic novel' of 1978.

ST4

Destiny Found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqaKtiCMBlw&feature=related

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[–] EmperorGalvatron 14 years ago

Black Adam does have magic lightning which Superman is vunerable to, yet didn't Superman defeat Marverl in the Kingdom Come story? That's why I want to know how Adam could be too powerful for Superman. Although being evil Adam wouldn't hold back his magical power and I think someone somewhere said he is a beter fighter than Marvel.

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[–] superturbo4 14 years ago

Ever since they put Adam in the JSA comic series (Justice Society Of America) Black Adam's been more of an anti-hero than evil villain for the past 10 years or so. but yes, its true reckon just the Roy Thomas era or the 80's 4 issue mini series Black Adam was by far a more dangerous physical foe in combat than Marvel who is just a kid at heart.

And usually they'll have Black Adam be way too cocky and overconfident, thus he makes random stupid mistakes costing him the victory he should've had. although to be fair, i think Captain Marvel's powers are also underestimated too.

Both he and Adam have many powers under the gods/demi-gods or ancient heroes they have abilities from and with Marvel's "Zeus" power he can multiply his other powers (Strength, Stamina, Speed, Courage) several fold as Adam can with the power of "Aton". Captain Marvel has the Courage of Achillies, possibly also Achillies fighting abilites and talents. Black adam may also get his fighting ability from Amon (strength) or Aton (power) but was known to be a great warrior in ancient Egypt (as Teth Adam) long before the powerful wizard Shazam made him his first champion as 'Mighty Adam'

Black Adam should be in any of DC's top 10 or 5 lists as a major superpowered fighter, agreed!!!

ST4

Destiny Found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqaKtiCMBlw&feature=related

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[–] vny109-1 14 years ago

It's not that Adam is stroger than Superman. It's just that DC is afraid to have Captain Marvel by himself on the cover since they believe it won't sell.

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[–] EmperorGalvatron 14 years ago

I kinda figured they threw Superman in there just for a big name. Maybe they should have worded that differently, instead of saying he's too powerful for Supe, but saying he uses magic to get by him so it's up to Marvel. Or something like that.

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[–] Otaku-sempai 14 years ago

I changed the wording slightly in the description. Better?

"Glenn Beck has Nazi Tourette's!" - Lewis Black

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[–] EmperorGalvatron 14 years ago

Yeah. Didn't mean to make a big deal out of it, just wondered how they'd have Adam get by Supe if he could defeat him alone. They could've just had Supe vs. Adam or Marvel vs. Adam, but it does make sense that DC had to put MOS in there cuz they think it wouldn't sell with just those two.

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[–] Neoblackdragon 13 years ago

Well after seeing it. Black Adams Magic is able to hurt Superman quite a bit so he needs some help putting down this guy. A big edge though Black Adam had was he was willing to kill and destroy everything.

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[–] tazmaniak 13 years ago

Think about it.Adam is thousands of years old and has had those powers the entire time.He is basically pure power.He is also equal to Superman in strength and speed.Lightning is one of the most destructive things on Earth, and besides Kryptonite and magic, it's one of the things Superman has the most trouble with.

Now, imagine someone is throwing magic lightning at him, as well as punching and kicking him.He would not have won that fight if Marvel wasn't backing him up.

For the comic readers, remember WW3?He took on the JSA, the Doom Patrol, the Marvels, the JLA, the Great Ten and the Teen Titans.They still couldn't defeat him physically.

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[–] EmperorGalvatron 13 years ago

Well, I'm not really that familiar with Adam. I'm aware of who he is and that he's powerful, but don't really know his whole backstory or what he's done, that's why I start this topic.

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[–] donxavier 13 years ago

It's interesting to note that the WW3 storyline only took place after Superman lost his powers and was out of the picture. Otherwise, Black Adam's rampage would not have lasted long at all. The only reason Adam did as well as he did was because he was fighting to kill while the other heroes were merely trying to restrain him. In the end, however, they still managed to stop him.

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[–] astro_5000 10 years ago

by
tazmaniak

Think about it.Adam is thousands of years old and has had those powers the entire time.He is basically pure power.He is also equal to Superman in strength and speed.Lightning is one of the most destructive things on Earth, and besides Kryptonite and magic, it's one of the things Superman has the most trouble with.

Now, imagine someone is throwing magic lightning at him, as well as punching and kicking him.He would not have won that fight if Marvel wasn't backing him up.

This isn't an episode of dragonball Z, being stuck in his super form doesn't make him more poewrful i.e pure power

superman is only weak in this because his not the main character, yet they wanted the show to a) have meaning i.e superman bestows his philosophy of being a hero/good guy b)trying to be more realistic i.e his a kid who ONLY just got his powers and may of lost

superman was merely there to guide the story alone, as for the magic lightning can mortally wound superman as he gets his ass kicked, it depends on the story writers perception of superman, in the JL cartoon he took repeated blasts of 'captain marvels' magic lightning blast i.e superman was more powerful in THAT interpretation

according to what i've heard superman has spent time in the SUN, his absorbed enough yellow SUN energy to make him GOD

superman could of easily lured 'black adam' whos very arrogant and stupid and probably would've followed, right to the SUN, syphon enough power and he could've killed black adam easily

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[–] donxavier 13 years ago

Because otherwise no one would be interested in this story. So, Superman is gimped/weakened to make Marvel and Black Adam appear more powerful. DC Comics does this from time time. They will play down the Man of Steel's power when they want to make other characters look more formidable. That is what's happening here.

DC wants to improve Captain Marvel's popularity. The problem is that since his character spouts things like "Gosh" and "Geeze" it's hard to look pass his cornball long enough to take him seriously. So, to remedy that, DC amped up Marvel's abilities in this story and then offered Superman on the alter of outclassed hero.

When you watch this movie you'll notice that they even made Superman visibly smaller in physical stature than Marvel and Black Adam. This is so he'll appear less potent against them.

In case you're wondering, Captain Marvel and Superman have fought many times throughout DC's history, usually with inconsistent results. The only time magic is an issue for the Man of Steel to overcome, is when the writer chooses it to be.

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[–] DarthBill 13 years ago

I hadn't noticed Superman, whom DC officially lists as 6'3" and 225 lbs., being smaller or thinner compared to Black Adam & Captain Marvel, both of whom clock in at 6'2" and 220 lbs. Granted, they spent most of their time flying so maybe that had something to do with it.

In case you're wondering, Captain Marvel and Superman have fought many times throughout DC's history, usually with inconsistent results. The only time magic is an issue for the Man of Steel to overcome, is when the writer chooses it to be.

Yeah, and that's why I don't take the 'Superman is vulnerable to magic' thing seriously. I mean c'mon, we all know the only reason DC throws it out there is so they can say that Superman has a weakness other than Kryptonite.

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[–] DarkATX 13 years ago

Doesn't anyone read the source material anymore? It's right there in the opening live action sequence of this short spinning on the stands! Please read the limited series comicbook before making a post, in the end, you're just missing out on a great read. In fact, Kingdom Come is probably the reason why lately most Captain Marvel depictions have him bigger than Superman. Actually, Alex Ross has also made Black Adam much larger than he was originally rendered. Even the limited series this short is based on, he's just beefier! Now, bigger doesn't mean better - just artistically he's more set apart from Superman. Also, another tidbit about Kingdom Come was that Ross & Waid didn't want three supermen fighting in the story so they gave Martian Manhunter a nervous breakdown as per Waid's reasoning. With that, lies the problem, a vast group of people are unwilling to accept other characters that might be on par or superior to Superman . They can't accept if Captain Marvel, Captain Atom,Green lantern, Martian Manhunter, Darkseid or even Lobo could whoop Superman's tail. I blame the bureaucracy at DC Animation for reinforcing this mindset as well as wiping out years of rich comicbook storytelling. If Superman always comes out on top then it's going to get boring real fast..plus that fact alone would make groups like the JLA pointless if Superman was unbeatable or never needed any help. Lately in DC Animation, Superman is starting to be powered down to something lower than Dragonball-Z levels (don't even get me started on that) and he's even admitting to fighting guys stronger than him...and that is what makes Superman a hero. I just hope that this fine short is the shape things to come because we really need more variety!

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[–] brickfire 11 years ago

by - DarkATX on Sat Dec 4 2010 22:33:24

quote-
They can't accept if Captain Marvel, Captain Atom,Green lantern, Martian Manhunter, Darkseid or even Lobo could whoop Superman's tail. I blame the bureaucracy at DC Animation for reinforcing this mindset as well as wiping out years of rich comicbook storytelling.

_________________________
I AGREE WITH YOU THAT GREEN LANTERN/S AND OTHERS MENTION HERE ARE AT LEAST HAS POWERFUL OR MORE POWERFUL THEN SUPERMAN.I KNEW FOR AWHILE THAT GREEN LANTERN WAS MORE POWERFUL THEN SUPERMAN BEFORE FLASHPOINT.
After flashpoint hard to say now,and if superman is more powerful then hal or seems more powerful(justice league comic) it will not stay that way since green lantern was made to be more powerful.
Simple has that.

Of course GREEN LANTERN hal seems more powerful in his own comic like before.The other lantern like john and guy seemed more powerful in thier comics too.I HAVE NOT KEPT UP with the justice league comic yet so maybe they have mad green lantern agian seem more powerful and is more powerful,but i have to read more issues to find out.

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[–] babybro1984 13 years ago

Um what? Captain Marvel is equal to Supes, not sure where you got the ideal that supes was stronger.

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[–] vinidici 13 years ago

If you know your comic book history (as, I think, several posters here do), then you will know that Superman (as originally conceived and published in 1938) was much more spare of frame and almost INFINITELY less powerful than even his powered-down incarnation from the mid 1980's-and-up.

Other comic book publishers followed on Superman's heels, most notably Captain Marvel, then a Fawcett property, to one-up the Man of Steel in strength and power. So National (DC Comic's original name) had to continually "keep up with the Joneses" and, over time, power their hero ever-up and, ultimately, have Supes "tickled" by lighning bolts, shrugging off atomic bomb blasts, and juggling planets!

In his current incarnation, Supes' power set seems to be somewhere between his 1980's strength level and his nigh-omnipotent power peak during the 1960's. This makes for stiffer competition for "Big Blue," with big-gun heroes and villains frequently giving him a run for his money as they duke it out. There's been a lot of flip-flopping and back-and-forth as to whom (in the DC Universe) the most powerful character is (discounting magical or cosmic beings, or "agents of the Almighty" like the Spectre); but generally, the ultimate edge belongs to Supes once again, these days (which by no means is saying he cannot be defeated, at times, by rivals from both the hero and villain camps.)

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[–] lostboys-2 13 years ago

"They can't accept if Captain Marvel, Captain Atom,Green lantern, Martian Manhunter, Darkseid or even Lobo could whoop Superman's tail. I blame the bureaucracy at DC Animation for reinforcing this mindset as well as wiping out years of rich comic book storytelling. If Superman always comes out on top then it's going to get boring real fast.."

Seems folks have been enjoying Superman for how many years? I would love to know what you consider "fast". There have been folks that have been born,grown up had children and maybe even great grandchildren and passed away, since the first Action comic of Superman. I think that's why many folks love the Superman character.

If you want something different with a virtual toss up who is stronger ...that often ends up in epic comic book store fistfights, I recommend the Marvel comic section.

The problem I see it is that they keep throwing one guy at Superman and then he wins. I know you are not listening Marvel but ... keep throwing multiple super power villains at him... One on one no way ... three or six on one, then I think folks would understand and accept Superman getting the crap kicked out of him.

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[–] confidential_75 13 years ago

When I watched the movie, I was annoyed as well.

I think instead of making it seem that Superman was taking the role of a punching bag, they could have kept him out of the picture when Adam caused the flood and have him return toward the end (when Marvel was about to kill Adam).

One thing I remembered that kept me sane was the fact that Superman rarely uses his full potential in a fight for fear that he might kill.

"RESPECTING ONE'S OPINION IS THE PINNACLE OF MATURITY"

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[–] DarkATX 13 years ago

Some good replies here...here's what I was aiming at from my prior post.
@ Lostboys-2 - As for what I consider 'fast'...the last 20 or some odd years of DC animation I'd say. I'm talking strictly animation as per this topic.

What makes Superman so enduring for so many generations is not his sheer might (that's just being lazy). He defeated foes with his wits and bravery sort of like his predecessor Hercules of old. Heros always found a way.
Superman embodies a genuine selfless caring spirit. It's what makes him (and anyone else with similar qualities like firemen, police officers, paramedics, good samaritans passing by when you got a flat tire, parents/gaurdians, etc...) a hero!

If I wanted epic battles then why shop at Marvel when you got the likes of DragonBall Z? Yet, DBZ has got a huge fanbase and I respect that even though it's not my cup of tea. So, no shots at DC vs Marvel vs whatever...that's as subjective as my post here. I'm not trying to change minds here - just sharing.

Superman is DC's flagship character - pure and simple.
My main concern is if they keep sticking to the tried and true 'Superman wins all' in the current DC animation universe then guess what..people will stop buying DC Animation DVD's - reactions will be 'been there, done that.'

@ Confidential 75 - You took solace in that Superman stated that 'he always had to hold back in fear of hurting someone' I know that episode...it was a cool episode but it seems that the tide has swung the other way now in the last few DC animated features.

Superman/Batman Public Enemies - his vulnerability to magic and Capt. Marvel and Hawkman taking the fight to Supes and Batman until Powergirl saved them off camera.

Superman/Batman Apocolypse...Darkseid is more inline with his true comicbook power. Just like he was in the Superman animated series.

Justice League - Crisis on two earths - Supes clearly states to President Wade that he has fought enemies more powerful than him.

And now this short...his vulnerability to magic is stated once again. Black Adam states that they are physical equals...this growing trend is there for a reason and that's variety, the spice of life!

Last thing we need is Superboy Prime. That's equivilant to Marvel's Beyonder/Secret Wars (remember that fiasco?)...got so bad that Marvel had to retrofit him and power him down just to keep the fanboys happy!

DC Animation is trying something different, trying to offer 'something new' - its up to us to support that otherwise we got these boards here to vent why all the DC Animation stories are becoming painfully redundant.

BTW, the fight where Superman and Supergirl fight Darkseid in S/B Apocolypse was more exciting because you felt a twinge of doubt that Supes had something to lose, that he might not be able to pull it off.

It's funny, noone really wonders anymore that Flash is faster than Superman or that Batman is smarter...but mention sheer power and everyone gets touchy?

I'd like to think there's enough room in the DC universe to have fictional beings of all power levels and capabilities. It's just telling a good story I really care about.

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[–] ss5mmyers 13 years ago

Superman is all about the power, that's why. He isn't Superman if he isn't SUPER. If Flash isn't faster, what else has he got? I wouldn't say Batman is smarter, Superman has access to high advanced technology containing whole galaxies worth of knowledge, but Batman's a better strategist and understands the criminal mind much better than Superman.

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[–] b198426 11 years ago

http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/CaptainMarvel.jpg

9 times out of 10, Cap wins against Supes. They're close to the same strength, but Cap's powers are magic based, which can be god levels. He's shown to be as fast as the Flash: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/27414/2319367-scan10062joinmw8.jp g

And Captain Marvel is currently the wielder of the full power of Shazaam, which makes the man a god. He has even went 1vs1 with the Specter! The Specter being the hand of the DC's version of God, the Presence.

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