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Can you be atheist but still believe in an Afterlife

posted 8 years ago by NurNodesinNil
12 replies | jump to latest

slightly off topic but is this possible? Reason is cause I like to think -though very remote-at some point in the future intelligence can reach a so called Omega Point.

At this point sentient life will have transcended death and created a paradise plus will invite beings from prior times to this paradise (either via time travel or more likely via awakening them in the minds of the super intelligent beings/machines at the Omega Point).

Totally crazy and unlikely for sure but couldnt an atheist agree or believe in this?
Or should we just be nihilist and accept we are doomed to succumb to death?

BTW: i think the odds of the Omega Point occurring are better than winning the lottery anyways. And if there is a multiverse it could happen in one and spread to the others.

Also if you are wondering why these future beings havent already contacted us to let us know this good news they cant because then we wouldnt aspire and work to reach the Omega Point. Nonetheless they did place the seed of the idea in the heads of some so that people wont just give up and think reality is just pointless suffering.

we shook our fists at the punishing rain
& WE CALLED UPON THE AUTHOR TO EXPLAIN!!!!!

[–] monstermaniac 8 years ago

Or should we just be nihilist and accept we are doomed to succumb to death?

Nonetheless they did place the seed of the idea in the heads of some so that people wont just give up and think reality is just pointless suffering.

I don't really see death as doom, or life as pointless suffering. Death makes life and our time precious. To know that we only have a limited time as this special, thinking, feeling being drives us to make the most of that time as best we can. And while we all can only have finite significance in this universe, that doesn't equate to no significance.

Even though odds say that there is likely other life and even intelligent life somewhere in the vast universe, it is also possible that we are the only ones, the only organisms in the universe that can make art and contemplate our own origins and fate. EVERY organism on this planet is the most rare, wondrous thing. This is why I shake my head so much at people such as creationists who will say things like, "oh, you think we're just apes, and somewhere in the past we came from fish? How stupid." Because to me and my worldview, all life on Earth is so amazing that I am fine with sharing heritage with other simpler organisms because they are still amazing.

One of the consequences of being what we are, is suffering. We know betrayal, heartache, and unfairness with our intelligence, but knowing them also means we can try to address them. I think it's a fair trade all in all.

[–] NurNodesinNil 8 years ago

I agree with you that:
1-perhaps death should not be seen as doom but just the natural way of things
2-creationists are nutso (though that is way off topic here).

But I disagree with you that:
1-"Death makes life and our time precious"

I never understood when people say death makes life more precious. Instead it makes it hard to enjoy life because we never know when it may be slipped away from us or our friends. All that enjoy the moment stuff is strange because the moment is always soon over while death awaits. its like being in a waiting room just waiting for our number to be called. Not fun.
And perhaps it would be ok if death was just a nice warm fuzzy gentle nudge into nonbeing. But in most instances its not. Its painful and slow and occasionally horrific (like in the Oakland fire). Plus it decides when. In fact death decides when , where and how. As for the why there is no answer.

I dont think we should eradicate death but rather transcend it and expand beyond it. this may take both mental training (meditation etc) along with technological advances. This way
we can make death as harmless as pinprick.

Mankinds research on cancer an other illnesses is a step in this direction. But it will probably take several hundred years or more. Clearly AI may play a role either in helping or being a malignant hindrance. I for one believe humans will merge with AI and though not immortal will be beyond the grasp of death. they will control when where and how of their passing. Much of this is standard transhumanism stuff.

Where i suggest going a step further from transhumanism is what is sometimes called the Omega Point. It is much like the singularity but instead of just being for the being(s)
at that point, the superintelligence will awaken in itself all prior beings. Crazy i know but when people around you are being burned alive , drowned frozen poisoned etc a crazy solution is needed.

We must rescue them in the future!! The Omega Point doesnt just happen on its own. It requires humans using their minds to solve problems step by step. It also requires the proliferation of kindness. We should treat eachother well and hopefully this trait will
get passed to the descendants that reach the Omega Point. They will reach a place free of pain and useless suffering* and will in their wisdom and kindness be glad to welcome and receive all other sentient beings to this place. And so they will rescue the victims throughout time from suffering and horror.

yes i know crazy sounding nonsense but you can either just casually brush off the nightmares around us because its not yet our turn or you can help to find a way out. We shouldn't tolerate death's control on our lives.

*I should point out that suffering would not be completely eliminated. Like death it will still exist but more as to help with growth and wisdom. Like death it will eventually be just part of the knowledge of the future beings but they will expand their minds beyond it.

All life is welcome for this. fish, birds, mammals. insects even.

we shook our fists at the punishing rain
& WE CALLED UPON THE AUTHOR TO EXPLAIN!!!!!

[–] nadaht 8 years ago

Anyone who have reached a so called +++++ level trip will tell you that there's an afterlife.

Would You like to know more?

[–] NurNodesinNil 7 years ago

Interesting...please tell more.

we shook our fists at the punishing rain
& WE CALLED UPON THE AUTHOR TO EXPLAIN!!!!!

[–] nadaht 7 years ago

The "You" stop to exist as a single entity and you slowly become "energy" and the energy that is "You" becomes part of the "energy" that all and everything is made of. You simply become one with everything. Or at least that's what it feels like. It's pretty awesome but than again, you need to go pretty hard on the "magic" mushrooms or LSD and it can just as well turn in to something really scary.

With that said, I actually recommend all people to try a mild shroom experience. It's really spiritual beyond theistic religions.

Would You like to know more?

[–] NurNodesinNil 7 years ago

I have heard some hospitals have used psychedelics to help with terminally ill patients.
(though not sure legally how they can do this even though it sounds like a good idea.)

What do you think of DMT? I read Rick Strassmans book on it . I guess some feel it is much like being dead or not the self.

But that said I still think the Omega Point initiative is useful to at least provide a place for souls to exist without pain for a while.... Eventually they will have to transcend it all and go to a higher level like you described. The main thing is in the current existence many of us need to deal with high levels of pain when we reach "the end". At the Omega Point we can go beyond the many varieties of pain. We probably will need to still know about pain but only for knowledge.

The Omega Point is like a rest stop the way to nirvana.

we shook our fists at the punishing rain
& WE CALLED UPON THE AUTHOR TO EXPLAIN!!!!!

[–] nadaht 7 years ago

I have heard some hospitals have used psychedelics to help with terminally ill patients.
(though not sure legally how they can do this even though it sounds like a good idea.)

I'm not a novice tripper in any way but to me, that sounds kinda scary. Like it makes you really understand that you are dying. But on the other hand, it could totally bring you tranquility and peace.

What do you think of DMT? I read Rick Strassmans book on it . I guess some feel it is much like being dead or not the self.

It's on my list. Doing DMT that is, not reading the book. It has helped a lot of people become better persons.

The Omega Point is like a rest stop the way to nirvana.

I see it as not The End, only a brief interlude.

Would You like to know more?

[–] NurNodesinNil 7 years ago

y...i was surprised when they mentioned that it helps terminally ill. The thing i heard is it helps one expand beyond the self. I heard there is a part of the brain (something..gyrus cant find it now) that manages this and people in transcendental meditation can indirectly turn it off. I know I would at death anyways no longer want to identify with my dead body. In fact that is what I believe Buddhism is about.

As for DMT , I hear of people taking Ayahuasca which is made from plants that have dmt. but not DMT directly. Are you planning on taking it directly?

As for the Omega Point and nirvana, i have also heard that people whose lives are in a bad state -either because of mental health or economic situation-usually have bad trips when taking psychedelics. Like wise the Omega Point is about being in a good state before heading to Nirvana.

we shook our fists at the punishing rain
& WE CALLED UPON THE AUTHOR TO EXPLAIN!!!!!

[–] nadaht 7 years ago

y...i was surprised when they mentioned that it helps terminally ill. The thing i heard is it helps one expand beyond the self. I heard there is a part of the brain (something..gyrus cant find it now) that manages this and people in transcendental meditation can indirectly turn it off. I know I would at death anyways no longer want to identify with my dead body. In fact that is what I believe Buddhism is about

.
I need to look in to that.

As for DMT , I hear of people taking Ayahuasca which is made from plants that have dmt. but not DMT directly. Are you planning on taking it directly?

I'm going to smoke it. Ayahuasca seems for people who are more hippies than I am.

As for the Omega Point and nirvana, i have also heard that people whose lives are in a bad state -either because of mental health or economic situation-usually have bad trips when taking psychedelics. Like wise the Omega Point is about being in a good state before heading to Nirvana

In the psychedelic world we talk about Set and Setting. You should be in a good mood and do it in a nice environment. I think I have to look in to this Omega Point thing a bit more.

Would You like to know more?

[–] NurNodesinNil 7 years ago

In case you haven't seen the link on wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point

I for one agree more with the Chardin concept of Omega Point than Tiplers. Tipler is limited to much to current technology and science. He overlooks that human scientific knowledge

All the see also's are valuable i think.

I am not into taking psychedlics much myself. Though i am fascinated to hear other peoples experiences.

Only thing i get is lots of hypnogogic images-especially when i am sick or in need of sleep real bad.

BTW: if you find anything about the "gyrus" or whatever its called, please post here. I wish I had saved that.

we shook our fists at the punishing rain
& WE CALLED UPON THE AUTHOR TO EXPLAIN!!!!!

[–] eggamus 7 years ago

Its possible but probably very rare as in order to believe in an afterlife you have to believe in some form of dualism and atheists typically tend to be materialists which means all mental functions are directly coneccted to activity in the brain so when brain activity ceases so does consciousness which is the effect of that activity

[–] Spiny_Norman 7 years ago

I'm an atheist and I don't believe in any of that crap.