Disturbing propaganda piece - Jian dang wei ye (2011) Discussion

[–] WalterX 13 years ago

I have not seen this movie yet, but I have seen "Jian Guo Da Ye". I agree it's a propaganda piece(both directed by Han Sanping), but to anyone with a basic understanding history would treat movies like these as mere fantasy. I know there are people who regard highly these type of movies. But, what can you do? the communist party glorifies itself constantly, on tv, in the newspaper, and in film.

However

I do not feel this echoes 1936 Germany, because Chinese government is not directing that nationalist sentiment towards a target. The Nazis used their racial rhetoric to attack the jews to gain power. The Chinese government, while is not exactly "good", is much more responsible and will not flame nationalism unless its own survival is at stake.

Sapere Aude!

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[–] theLunchMovie 13 years ago

I just saw this movie at the AMC Boston Common, which is within a few blocks of Chinatown, and which has been making an effort to include a Chinese or HK movie on 1 of its 19 screens. They usually show action or romantic comedies. The audience I was with was @ 80% Asian. It may comfort you to know that they were frequently laughing, and I don't think they were laughing with the movie, but at it.

Even as propaganda this movie is a letdown. It felt like a 10 hour miniseries edited down to 2 hours. No characters are developed (except maybe Mao, and even he didn't come off as very compelling) and no moments resonate, it's just a bunch of well dressed people speechifying in large lecture halls, followed by crowds raising flags and fists and walking down streets. If I grew up in a Chinese school I'd probably have a much deeper sense of who all these people were and therefore not need this movie. Having not grown up with this history, this movie gave me very little interest in finding out anymore ... and I say that as someone who loves research! Shouldn't propaganda have the exact opposite effect if done properly? Yup, it's a dud all right, and probably the biggest waste of Chow Yun Fat since THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS.

Before anyone mistake me for xenophobic or anti-Chinese, I also recently saw CITY OF LIFE & DEATH, which I thought was one of the most impressive and haunting movies I've ever seen.

http://twitter.com/TheLunchMovie
www.thelunchmovie.com

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[–] wngmv 13 years ago

Shouldn't propaganda have the exact opposite effect if done properly?

With all due respect, I think this movies is directly at Chinese population who are already very familiar with the history and therefore a coherent story line is not their priority.

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[–] nanwangjkl 13 years ago

I'm a Chinese student in China and i don't think you are an anti-Chinese. Are you cur curious about life in China and Chinese student? Let me tell you. Every teenager in China thought the same way as yours about this movie, even those who have join the Cparty(please forgive my English). It's bouring and political. The Government even force those foreign movies to give way to this movie. For evample, the HP7 and the Transformers was put off to August. I will tell your something more: in China, students are forbidden to form assembly more than 10 people unless it is promitted. Most urben people lives a middle-class life, so most people i china just put up with it. But as you can see, Students in this film can gather freely and even atack governmental bulidings, someone says that the movie was a vague sarcasem movie...

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[–] cherik_mcfassy 10 years ago

Obvious troll. I find it quite hard to believe that you are a Chinese student.

in China, students are forbidden to form assembly more than 10 people unless it is promitted.

Ewww, I know tons of student initiated organizations in China that have never been interfered by school or the government.
And also what's the problem with your spelling? For someone who knows how to use phrases like "put up" and "put off," how can he not know how to spell "boring" and "permitted"!!
I agree with you about the vague "sarcasm" thing, but your act of trolling around, faking to be a Chinese is just not acceptable.

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[–] JNagarya 11 years ago

"City of Life and Death" was irresponsible: it is a _fiction_ about a very-real historic event -- which event many Japanese still deny occurred. This gives them ammunition for their attack on that which they already call "fiction".

See the factual films about the Rape of Nanjing -- especially, if you can find it, that about Iris Chang, who researched, and brought to the world's attention, that genocidal horror, which was ignored and knowledge of which suppressed in the US in order to re-establish relations with Japan after WWII.

There are those who characterize "The Founding of a Republic" as also being propaganda. But if one knows the actual history, one recognizes that Chiang Kai-Shek is presented as an upstanding, decent man, when the fact is that he was a gangster, a thug, and a military dictator who slaughtered his Chinese political opponents, while ignoring the Japanese invasion. It was Mao who confronted the Japanese -- and attempted unsuccessfully to form a united front with Chiang.

See "The Soong Sisters" for some of that history. And read Seagraves' "The Soong Dynasty" for the fuller history of what Chiang actually was, behind the US propaganda portraying him as a great hero and savior of China.

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[–] jnagarya-1 7 years ago

"City of Life and Death" is a lie because it showed Japanese sympathetically -- which is entirely contrary to the actual reality.

If you truly "love research," then look up Iris Chang, her published history, and the several videos about her work bringing to world attention, the Rape of Nanking, which "City of Life and Death" shamefully misrepresents -- and was made by citizens of the country that was victim of that holocaust.

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[–] jnagarya-1 7 years ago

"the communist party glorifies itself constantly, on tv, in the newspaper, and in film."

Is there any country that doesn't glorify itself as the best country in the world?

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[–] noahtenzin 13 years ago

http://shareddarkness.com/2011/06/30/beginning-of-the-great-revival.as px

^ Film reviewed here... says it looks nice, at least.

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[–] prokopis26 13 years ago

We know its propaganda so what? USA do the same all the time and glorifies itself as saviors of the world. I don't go troll on "hurt locker" boards about the crimes US commited in Iraq.
Your cellphone is made from underpaid chinese workers and if you don't find disturbing to use it then its hipocricy to get disturbed over a bloody film. I only care if the film is well made and interesting.

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[–] cherik_mcfassy 10 years ago

I totally agree with you about the propaganda in USA. I was frowning all the way through Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

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[–] cherik_mcfassy 10 years ago

I totally agree with you about the propaganda in USA. I was frowning all the way through Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

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[–] pumpkin414 12 years ago

Big difference man! German Government 1936 was elected DEMOCRATICALLY!!! XD

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[–] nogard64 12 years ago

not true, hitler himself used terrorism to seize power.

Hitler's war on terrorism
One of the most searing events in German history occurred soon after Hitler took office. On February 27, 1933, in what easily could be termed the 9/11 terrorist attack of that time, German terrorists fire-bombed the German parliament building. It shouldn't surprise anyone that Adolf Hitler, one of the strongest political leaders in history, would declare war on terrorism and ask the German parliament (the Reichstag) to give him temporary emergency powers to fight the terrorists. Passionately claiming that such powers were necessary to protect the freedom and well-being of the German people, Hitler persuaded the German legislators to give him the emergency powers he needed to confront the terrorist crisis. What became known as the Enabling Act allowed Hitler to suspend civil liberties “temporarily,” that is, until the crisis had passed. Not surprisingly, however, the threat of terrorism never subsided and Hitler's “temporary” emergency powers, which were periodically renewed by the Reichstag, were still in effect when he took his own life some 12 years later.

http://hemestate.blogspot.com/

-things I write on IMDB may come from my blog

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[–] pumpkin414 12 years ago

Com'on man, terrorism in 1930s?! Don't use moden term to define sth long time ago.
Plus, what you really tell us? You mean the nation that had launched world-war once were still stupid/dumb enough to elect and support a person to launch a second world-war and genocide through the way of fighting "terrorism"?! XD

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[–] aim4 12 years ago

Wow, your reply reflects such a woeful ignorance of 20th century history, I really don't know where to begin. Just, wow.

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[–] guykamen 12 years ago

Pumpkin, are you a native Chinese? Outside China, we spell your "com'on" as "come on". And what is that strange word you used, "sth"? Be advised that to be understood, we need a common language that is taught in school, not from your neighborhood, or in your case, UrbanDictionary.com. It seems that since the internet got started, we have been seeing a gradual decline of the English language, to the point people can't tell the difference between "lose" and "loose", or "to" and "too". And they use apostrophes whenever they feel like it. I know this by default makes me into some "grammar nazi", especially by those of you who skipped English classes at school. But grammar is very important, especially if you want people to take you seriously.

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[–] cherik_mcfassy 10 years ago

Pumpkin, are you a native Chinese? Outside China, we spell your "com'on" as "come on".

THIS IS RACIST.

I agree with you that this dude is Chinese since "sth" is used a lot in Chinese English lessons as a short form of "something". And I also agree that grammar is very important. However, I wonder why you said nothing about nanwangjkl' s post in this thread. Just scroll up and you will see.
Considering that English is not Pumpkin's first language, making mistakes is of course forgivable. Besides, Pumpkin's phrasing is not that bad, considering the average level of English in China.
I don't see anything wrong with using Urban Dictionary for an English learner to understand the slangs that cannot be found in any other dictionaries. Also it is not acceptable picking on others based on your assumption.
I hope you can consider your own behaviour besides criticizing others.
Have a great weekend ahead.

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[–] JNagarya 11 years ago

Terrorism has _always_ existed. It was not invented by Osama bin Laden and or the Bush criminal enterprise.

That's why the words "terror" and "terrorism" had already existed for thousands of years before 9/11/2001.

To refresh your memory: the 1990's bombing of the Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma was TERRORISM.

The mass shootings in the US are TERRORISM.

Why? Because the purpose of terrorism is to instill TERROR.

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[–] jnagarya-1 7 years ago

It is the fact that Hitler was democratically elected.

It reminds of Trump, the demagogue, and his inflaming of violence, and threatening his opponent with jailing and assassination.

And we've yet to see how he will mobilize his Nazi and Klan/white supremacist supporters against the perfectly legal recounts of votes in states he was predicted NOT to win.

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[–] JNagarya 11 years ago

Not accurate.

But it is accurate that the Chinese civil war, between Chiang Kai-Shek and Mao, was won by Mao, because Mao actually represented the people, whereas Chiang was a US/Western puppet who idolized US-enemy Tojo.

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[–] tetrahex 12 years ago

Mao: The Unknown Story by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday
shows what a monstrous man mao was, no doubt banned in china where mao worship still rules the day.

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[–] JNagarya 11 years ago

How do we know that isn't counter-propaganda generated by the fanatical pro-Fascist right-wing?

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[–] cherik_mcfassy 10 years ago

I must say that mao worship no longer rules today. Perhaps for some people of the older generation, they still have mao's picture above their bed, but that's only for the minority. Have you ever heard a phrase called “个人崇拜"? It's a Mandrin phrase which means "cult of personality" in English. It is clearly written in Chinese history textbooks that after the Cultural Revolution, we should learn to "加强党的民主集中制原则，防止个人崇拜” which means to promote democratic centralism and prevent cult of personality. The mistakes that mao and the Party have made are also addressed directly in Chinese history textbooks.

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[–] Kawada_Kira 10 years ago

Mao: The Unknown Story by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday
shows what a monstrous man mao was, no doubt banned in china where mao worship still rules the day.

That book isn't good for anything but toilet paper. Do you just automatically believe everything you read? Even anti-communist scholars have attacked that book for the dishonest heap of propaganda trash it is.

And to think, you people accuse communists of being brainwashed...

The people, and the people alone, are the motive force in the making of history.
-Mao Zedong

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[–] Cocainefarm 12 years ago

If it's propaganda then it's really mild. If the movie sucks then it's because it's extremely boring.

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[–] JNagarya 11 years ago

Does anyone else find disturbing the fact that US citizens bash China for massive human rights abuses in order to ignore the fact that the US was based upon massive genocide against its native population?

Echoes of "1984," "Animal Farm," and the WW II US propaganda intended to incite ultra-nationalist sentiment -- and racism -- in the US population. In particular was the US's glorification of US ally Chiang Kai-Shek, who modeled his military dictatorship on that of US-enemy Tojo, while not making a single mention of Mao, who actually fought for China against Japan, instead of ignoring the Japanese slaughter of Chinese because obsessively focused on murdering all his Chinese political opponents.

Does anyone else find disturbing the illitereate and knee-jerk counter-propaganda against alleged Chinese propaganda? The notion that one was free to found poliitcal parties before Mao is hogwash -- the tradition of slughtering such being perpetuated by Chiang Kai-Shek. See "The Soong Sisters" for some facts on that point, and read Seagravese' "The Soong Dynasty".

How unlike China that the freedom-loving US would establish torture -- torture by any other name is torture -- as official gov't policy, despite the fact that torture cannot be made legal, anywhere, by anyone, at any time.

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[–] Kawada_Kira 10 years ago

This whole thread is a clusterf-ck.

The people, and the people alone, are the motive force in the making of history.
-Mao Zedong

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