MovieChat Forums > Outcasts (2011) Discussion > I use Outcasts as an example of how -not...

I use Outcasts as an example of how -not- to do Sci-Fi TV shows


I admit to only having watched the pilot and I read on here that the show gradually turned to exploration of Carpathia, so maybe there was some potential here after all. In any case, the viewing figures dropping as much as they did suggests that there was a problem with how the show presented itself in the beginning, so my observations during the pilot are still relevant for that reason.

I also read here and in many other boards that many posters don't understand why "haters" come to a board of a series they don't watch just to spew negativity. To you I have to say, sure - watch whatever you want, but be prepared to defend the reasons you give for doing so when you state them. They are, unlike the subjective opinion, attempts at rationalization after all.

So, why do I use Outcasts as an example of how not to do Sci-Fi when I discuss popular culture with friends? It is because it exemplifies everything wrong with the genre when televised. To explain this I need to define science fiction:

* science fiction is one or more elements of present day social life, technology or civilization juxtaposed into a future or alternate dimmension/historic timeline where those elements are displayed with higher contrast.

As such, Outcasts qualifies because that is exactly what it does. But what element(s) have been selected for scrutiny? The political correct idea that human selfishness in the form of war, pollution and inequality has destroyed Earth. The philosophical problem posed by the series is explicitly laid out as "will humankind ever manage to live in peace [with itself and the world around it]?" And the answer the shows give is "yes!"

So far, this is good; the idea "civilized humanity = bad" is the first half of the rather politically incorrect concept of the Noble Savage, so I guess it balances out the PCness.

It is what follows next that is the real issue: so old humanity failed and new humanity gets a chance at doing things right and learning from the past. They have prepared an Ark, a spaceship or ten swapping up all the humans left after decades of fighting what must be assumed is the third world war over dwindling resources as Mother Earth turns against us. They know very little about Carpathia except that it appears to be habitable for humans. Yet, when they arrive, they seem woefully unprepared.

The pilot shows us a little outpost that seems to hold a few dozen people inside some structures that were built using parts from the spaceship. They don't actually do anything, apart from resuming the old life where they left it off. There is no organized exploration, no ant-hill activity as everyone do their part in expanding and setting up an actual colony. We are told that the seeds we brought won't grow, but no experiments are seemingly done to remedy the problem and no research is being done on the existing life on the planet. Electrical dust storms strike often, but no work is being done in order to secure the area. No manufacturing is being done - it appears no tools or equipment for doing so were brought from earth.

In short, the people of this outpost stays inside loitering while feeding off the resources brought from earth. And this is supposed to be months from landing? Years?

As viewers we are then supposed to be captured by the petty squabbles between the one-dimmensional characters whose function in the plot is painfully obvious after a few seconds and who were chosen to join the Ark apparently because they embody various ethnical, gender or social stereotypes representing how the showrunners decided to deal with the concept "civilized humanity = bad" mentioned above. There is no urgency to gain foothold on the planet, to survive, to build a sustainable colony. Instead we get policewomen (breaking the stereotypes by being stock characters) stopping childish fights and a cougar ordering a beer in a bar, picking up a man to have sex with and then leaving without drinking the beer.

If fans of the show want to figure out why so many people hate it, and why it was cancelled, perform the following experiment: take the premise (discard humanity and try again), the plot (it is difficult because we are innately bad) and the characters (selected specimen from all social layers each embodying one aspect of what is wrong with mankind) and instead of putting them together on "Carpathia" set it in a poverty-stricken London suburb. What would be different in this alternate version than in Outpost?

Nothing.

And that's why. It is in other words just a ridiculously expensive re-run of any social realism British soap you could think of. The "masses" don't have to be suffering from ADD or "hate intelligent sci-fi" to quickly lose interest in the show based on the pilot. What I expected before watching the pilot, based on the base idea of the show; humans evacuating to a new planet, was that it would be an exciting battle for survival in a new and threatening environment and that it would demand the very best of everyone. People would disagree about how to go about things, plenty of tension just there! What I saw was profoundly pointless.

So this is not just what is wrong with Outcasts, it is a problem for the whole science fiction genre in my opinion. Films and TV-series marketed as "science fiction" is either what is better labeled "futuristic action" since the definition above don't apply, or it is "soap in space" entirely centered on inter-human relationships and their petty intrigues. Outcasts ended up in the latter category despite its premise being actual science fiction.

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You went to all that trouble and only watched the first episode? I liked the series quite a bit and was sorry it didn't continue. But your long review over one

Ironically I am like you as I just read your first few sentences before writing this comment.

Uninformed.

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As I said, Outcasts is an excellent example of how not to do TV. The pilot was comically awful and I watch the pilot of many sci-fi shows each year. I still remember this show's first episode nearly four years later; the sheer stupidity of what the characters were saying and doing made me laugh for a while, but in the end it got so bad that I just watched in disbelief.

I was curious about how the show was received afterwards, so I went here and elsewhere and saw that I was not the only one that reacted this way. Surprisingly, many of the comments in here were of the "blah blah too impatient, too stupid to understand, kids used to braindead action, too short attention span blah blah"- kind, and I found that hilarious. Still do. If you think that experimenting with clichéd gender role swaps, clichéd British social mobility criticism and a kindergarden toddler's outlook on world politics constitutes "intelligent fiction", then I cannot really help you.

Except simply telling you that I would have felt downright insulted if I could take this joke of a tv-show seriously.

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I'm two episodes in and I'm doing the Picard facepalm and the eyerolling groan at this point.

Let's be honest and fair here. The pilot of a show is meant to capture everything the show is about, set up the characters, set up the setting, and get us rolling on an interesting plot.

Outcasts doesn't do any of these things.

It spends it's entire time trying to imitate Battlestar Galactica (a formula for Sci Fi I generally hate and call "The Soap Opera For Stupid Nerds"... The Walking Dead is guilty of this from Season 2 onwards and Falling Skies from Season 3 onwards. Likewise Stargate Universe is guilty of it from the get-go... It makes Sci Fi painful to watch as it's more for daytime TV which is for bored housewives with woefully low standards. Or bored househusbands if you prefer the term not be sexist. Same kind of people, to be honest.). I'm not a fan of Space Soap Opera. It's boring, it's silly, and it's filled with contrivances. It is, in essence, drama for the sake of drama, and not for the sake of story or even narrative. In essence, the characters exist to cause interpersonal tension between their polar opposites and nothing more than that. Pick any character in the Pilot, remove them, and the Pilot remains unchanged in the slightest.

First impressions are very important and this just isn't that good. It isn't interesting in its presentation or plot at all.

In fact, I think the part where they were talking about when they first landed and were doing this cloning thing with this disease that was killing children... Why was THAT not the starting point? That is vastly more interesting than the whole "earth is dying, let's talk to a doomed ship that we know is doomed from word one of its captain because the writing is so damn predictable and contrived that you just couldn't have drama without the ship blowing up." Actually, how would they have even had space for the new arrivals at all? I think that could've been an interesting storyline, instead of "ship goes boom, rescue survivors". Why not a storyline where the ship had actually made it down just fine, but was so damaged that most everything electronic on board was practically worthless and then they had to figure out how to get room for these new colonists and deal with the whole "now we have two leaders for one colony" issue. Might have even been interesting if instead of assimilating into ONE colony, the ship people created their own colony nearby so that they could engage in trade and not have to tax the resources of the already existing colony.

I don't know, I clicked it in Netflix expecting something interesting. I got social commentary from writers who don't know anything about societies at large, civilization at all, or even how human beings act/react in survival situations. It's all very bland and lackluster. It reeks of "done before, done better".

Honestly, I'd love to see an actual Sci Fi series that actually deals with ACTUAL SURVIVAL. Put them on another planet and make the show about how they're trying to colonize it. You could even have "monster of the week" in the form of a new plant or animal species encountered. You could even have animals and plants so deadly that the viewer knows immediately upon spotting them that something bad is about to go down. Maybe even have a whole bunch of new Lore created just so that the universe in the show works and geeks/nerds can put it all together. You could probably even introduce an alien species at some point with mysterious motives that is spying on humanity, but not interacting with them at all. There's a lot you could actually do with a series like this, but I'm two episodes in and I feel like I'm watching "As The World Turns" or some equally stagnant piece of daytime TV Trash.

It just isn't very good Sci Fi. Sci Fi doesn't preach to it's viewers. Sci Fi makes its viewers think. Unfortunately, this seems really one-sided and really naïve almost all the time.

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Funny they should say that... My wife and I just finished watching the series via Netflix and we were very disappointed that the one season was all.

Our gripes about the last few episodes is that the Religious Nut wasn't just shot and killed outright, but we assumed that thread would continue for a while after the second ship arrived.

Religion, manipulation... too much of a reminder of the US' 2016 Presidential Election...

A planet controlling images for people? Stanislaw Lem's Solaris ring a bell? That might have turned into something, given more episodes.

The characters were quite real as portrayed and not all of the relationships were all that shallow.

We're sorry to not have more to see, but hey, that's just the opinion of two old fogies who've been enjoying all kinds of sci-fi since the early 1950s. What the hell do WE know, anyway...?

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Thanks for writing up your thoughts. You make some good points. I'm a science fiction fan and was impressed by the original premise of the show, but the execution was awful hand-wringing soap.

You would not have been impressed when, about two-thirds* of the way into the series IIRC, we had a high shot of the city revealing it to be quite large which rather emphasised the utter failure of the writer to establish the basis of the colony's economy and strategy for survival.

(* = by which time I was watching on a 'how bad can it get' basis - though believe me, I wanted it to succeed.)

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actually you got you own premise wrong. Science fiction is not just something that occurs in the future.
Or as you so clumsily put it,
" science fiction is one or more elements of present day social life, technology or civilization juxtaposed into a future or alternate dimmension/historic timeline where those elements are displayed with higher contrast. "
Rather Science Fiction does not need to be in a different time or place. It can be in a contemporary setting (the best stuff often is). What makes it Science fiction is that the author takes a premise that is based in science and technology. For example, imagine that FTL travel is possible, but only by using a finite valuable resource like gold or diamonds. Then the writer explores the affect this shift in technology has on society, culture or perhaps even just personal relationships.

It is the bad sci fi which just straps an astronaut helmet on a cowboy story. Which is what quite a lot of TV scifi amounts to.
I did not see a lot of regurgitated tropes in "outcasts".
The show seems to studiously avoid many old saws of televised story telling.
They stick to their premise, though it is a complicated one, and rarely lapse into the dreary soap opera histrionics such as "Marvel Agents of Shield" or "BSG" often toiled in.
NOt to say the show does not explore interpersonal relationships. Stories, even sci fi stories are all about people after all.
It just does not drag it's viewers through one tear jerking heart break after another as any soap is wont to do.
I do fault the show for being a bit too much in the vein of "Lost" or "Heroes" where they always defer the explanation of what just happened to some point in the future. Not that this is not valid story telling, it is just annoying when you are watching a show on VOD as it compells you to binge through the whole season.
I'd also fault the show for a few minor technical details. EG I cannot imagine any leap forward in tech that would make us want to send shiping containers to another star. Even if ZP energy becomes a reality, and mass is not an issue. The physical bulk of such containers makes them impractical for interstellar use.
Though to be fair, BBC has always been long on writing and acting. Short on budgets.

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Well, the quote you used from my text and stated was "clumsy" actually explained everything you said about technology or science, except that's hard sci-fi. There is also soft sci-fi, which unlike you I also covered in my "clumsy premise".

In other words, I said in my post that sci-fi is NOT just futuristic action, which is what you clearly believe it was that I was arguing. Please read my post again, this time carefully, so that you understand what it is I am actually saying.

The -only- things I saw in the pilot (1/8th of the entire series) were soap, tropes and "old saws of story telling", and it is not by any means a complicated premise - they just don't explore it (in the first hour).

The premise of the show is that Earth is doomed so the remaining humans flee to a different planet, in order to start anew. From what I saw, they don't. The subject matter of Outcasts is social challenges in present-day urban London, seen from a radical feminist point of view. The only thing that has changed is that now all men are fickle, weak-willed, half-crazed barbarians advocating chaos while all women are peace-keeping, powerful officers of the law fighting for law, order and prosperity. Except those who like to have sex with random guys in the bar without drinking the beer they ordered.

So they bring the whole of humanity into the great unknown, and somehow decide that all the tension, the plot-driving conflict, is going to come from internal forces? From class, gender, race and ideology? Why? Why not do it in London? Carpathia brings absolutely nothing to the story whatsoever! There is no advance or leap in technology, science or social life that affects the plot of Outcasts whatsoever.

Outcasts is the Celebrity Big Brother of science fiction TV.

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"radical feminist point of view." Eh? I think you must be confusing this with another show. Having a couple (precisely two) female leads in a show with several male leads is hardly radical feminism.

"The only thing that has changed is that now all men are fickle, weak-willed, half-crazed barbarians advocating chaos while all women are peace-keeping, powerful officers of the law fighting for law, order and prosperity. Except those who like to have sex with random guys in the bar without drinking the beer they ordered." Again no. Tate and Berger are almost the complete opposite of the men you describe. Okay, one of the women leads (all two of them) is indeed an "officer of the law". Most of the other women are cliched bit characters (so much for your "radical feminist" trope!): an estranged daughter, a daughter seeking revenge over the death of her mum, a nurse, another daughter, oh and one women expeditionary out of several men.

"So they bring the whole of humanity into the great unknown". If you think that the main characters in Outcasts come anywhere close to representing the whole of humanity, then you must lead a very sheltered life! One of my criticisms of the show is that is doesn't explain why only BBC stock characters have fled to Carpathia. But, then, that is a failing of much British TV sci-fi.

"and somehow decide that all the tension, the plot-driving conflict, is going to come from internal forces?" No, not at all. Right from episode 2, they introduce the first of the external factors that never quite manage to save the series from the rather dull internal politics of Forthaven. It just shows how silly it is to base your opinion of the show only on the pilot. There is plenty to criticise about the show, but you have spectacularly missed most of those problems, to focus on strawmen that just reflect your own prejudices.

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The "radical feminist point of view" is that men are blamed for the wars that forced them to flee in the first place. The way the show portrayed "idle men" being a problem for this society just emphasized that point.

"If you think that the main characters in Outcasts come anywhere close to representing the whole of humanity, then you must lead a very sheltered life!" I was talking about Forthaven. There isn't that much left of humanity, is there? In Outcasts,

1/8th of a show is more than enough to conclude that it is crap. It is also enough to conclude that it is not in any way "intelligent sci-fi".

You haven't even commented upon my main point; that Outcasts could easily have been set in London and they would hardly have to change anything.

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Happily.

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[deleted]

I appreciate the time you took to write your post and the thought you put into the shows problems but it isn't anything complex. It was just badly written, acted and realised.

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Duty Now For The Future

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They got the right idea but poor execution. The show is just overall very boring, simple as that. I think it doesn't have that interesting characters, plot and story. You know I wish they would have done something like telling the story of how these people explore the new planets, encounters new mysterious alien lifeforms can either be hostile or friendly, develop more characters with colorful unique personality, some action here and there just to keep the viewers pace of excitement, make up a new idea on how the new planet was like and how the humans struggle with different elements of the new planet. Try to keep it exciting, instead the entire show focused on lame drama.

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I agree with you. Winding ten years forward from humanity's first encounter with alien life on an alien planet in order to focus on how everything continues to be exactly like on earth... who comes up with **** like that!?

They deserve a good old smacking over the head.

We have no idea what it would be like on an earth-like planet under a different sun. The climate could be harsh and unforgiving; the year could be longer or shorter; the gravity would be a few percent higher or lower if we're lucky; there could be two or more moons affecting tides and whatnot; new life-forms everywhere and we would know nothing about which ones we could eat. Basically, the "away teams" would have to walk around in hazmat suits and there would have been a "window of survival" where the resources we brought with us would dwindle away and research would have to be done to remedy that problem.

It would have been a great challenge for a highly trained group of specialists even to survive there, let alone random civilians from London. Whatching a show about that would have been awesome and attract a far greater audience than sci-fi shows normally do. Exploring other planets is a landmark of human evolution that it looks like we will achieve in our lifetime - as Mars is a decade or two away.

Interstellar did many things right in that respect, although it mostly dealt with other themes than planetary exploration and survival. It was a good story, but I don't think the excitement/hype was caused by the love story between a father and his kids.

There is definitely a demand in the worldwide public for a movie or TV-show about a group of people trying to rebuild/expand humanity on an alien planet. Outcasts showed that there is no demand for a social-realism soap in a South African rock quarry.

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I admit

That you're a moron who wasted a metric *beep* of words to just say "I am a moron, speaking from a position of ignorance."? Yeah, we know.

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WORDS MEAN THINGS! Also, before you come to bitch about a plot hole, rewatch the show/movie.

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I know everything worthwhile to know about this TV show, which is not much. What about you? Any insights to share while you're at it?

Thought not. Imbeciles everywhere...

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