MovieChat Forums > The Legend of Korra (2012) Discussion > So, we all agree the Red Lotus was OP, r...

So, we all agree the Red Lotus was OP, right?

posted 9 years ago by Zero_Wolf
10 replies | jump to latest

I'm just finally watching this show and I finished Season 3 last night, and during final few episodes I am thinking to myself, "there's no way these 4 (Zaheer, Ghazan, Ming-Hua, & P'Li) could possibly be this difficult to subdue."

For starters, one of the things common to all of them is that they've been imprisoned in a cage for 13 years, and all of them are at least a few years past their physical prime. Uncle Iroh was able to actually firm himself up while imprisoned for a few weeks, but let's be honest: 13 years of imprisonment, closely watched by guards, is not going to improve these people's bending ability. And yet they were caught to begin with, so how good could they even have been in their prime, to say nothing of their rusted busted selves now.

Now, in increasing order of ridiculousness:

Ming-Hua

She's the only who is truly believable. Her lack of arms almost guarantees that she developed a accomodatingly high level of mastery in water bending. Also, the only other water bender she ever faced was an older Kya, who she was clearly better than. Versus Mako and Bolin her water bending just seemed to be able to trump them, and her ice scythes, darts, and grappling ability was truly impressive. Still, without blood bending, being limited to water bending meant she should have been individually no match for either the Avatar, Master Tenzin, or Bei Fong.

Ghazan

What the hell is lava bending? How is that not also fire bending? Anyway, how was he able to totally destroy the Northern Air Temple? Why is his lava self-perpetuating? Why did it just keep increasing in volume long after he ran off? Why didn't it naturally cool? Why couldn't any of the air or water benders just freeze it back into solid Earth? For that matter why couldn't any earth bender just smother it with regular dirt? How could it melt through other earth instead of slowly cooling? His bending was just absurdly powerful, but at the same time easy to neutralize, though no one bothered to do so.

P'Li

She has one attack! There is neither subtlety nor trickery involved in this one attack! Floating above the fray, taking ranged shots from an airship, fine, I can accept that, and tactically it's brilliant. But holding her own against 2 master Earth/Metal benders, plus a handful of metal bending security personnel? Please. Just attack from different vectors and she's done.

Zaheer

For most of this guy's life he wasn't even a bender, of anything at all! All the other new air benders discovered their gifts accidentally while their lives were in peril. How exactly did Aiwei even discover his power? His life would never have been in peril inside his cage. And since he is under constant surveillance how did he conceal this new manifestation when he first became aware of it? Or did he somehow know he had this power before ever demonstrating, unlike every other new bender we saw. How did he learn to use it sufficiently well to escape, again, while under constant surveillance? How is it that Bumi, under the direct tutelage of an Airbending master, is somehow inferior at airbending, by magnitudes, than a guy who has received no training at all? How can Aiwei become almost a master level Airbender within weeks? How can he even defend himself against Master Tenzin, or the Avatar, let alone actually score hits on both? How did he master a flying technique so rare and difficult no one had done it in centuries, and was thought myth?

When Amon's blood bending was revealed, I thought, "ah, now it makes sense. this guy is a legitimate threat."

When Unalaq fused with Vaatu I thought, "damn, shiz just got real."

With the Red Lotus, I just sat there thinking, "come on....."

EDIT: fixed Zaheer's name

____________________________
Death is the road to awe.

[–] Bioshock_Man 9 years ago

Oh, this is going to be a fun thread, I can tell.

Be prepared, OP.

I'm tired of talkin, Fuchs. I just wanna get up to my shack and get drunk.

[–] windkirby 9 years ago

It's been a while since I've seen book three, but a few counterpoints:

Ghazan
I believe the idea behind his power is that it doesn't involve firebending because there is no fire. He controls earth, he can control the temperature of earth. He raises the temperature of the manipulated rock to the point where becomes molten lava. I'm guessing when it spreads it's because he raised it so high that the heat is spreading and melting other rock. The average waterbender and airbender are not skilled enough at temperature manipulation to manipulate the air or the water in the air to cool down the lava it's in contact with. That would also be more difficult since solids maintain temperature much better than gases do. The extremely high heat is also why heaping more dirt on top of the lava would just catch the dirt on fire and make more magma. Unless someone has specifically trained to control temperature, there is not a lot one could do against lavabending. The best bet would probably be putting liquid water on it.

You don't mean Aiwei, who didn't bend--you mean Zaheer.
The idea (which the creators have confirmed) is that Zaheer studied airbending his whole life. He was already a ridiculously skilled martial artist before he got airbending. Why else would they have to contain him is such an extreme way? The guards ventured out to his cell every now and again to feed him--no one was stationed directly outside, so he easily could discover his bending without their knowledge. I can definitely buy he was much better than Bumi, who wasn't very interested in airbender culture and had only been training for like two months, I doubt more than three. Holding his own against Tenzin is a bit harder to buy, but you could see Zaheer was losing in that battle and it was only their united efforts that brought them victory. Considering all the airbenders were novices, I buy it. As for flying, Zaheer had been studying airbender philosophy his entire life. Even Aang wasn't very much into airbender history and probably new less than Zaheer did because he was such a fanatic. Airbending philosophy meant everything to him; it was basically his religion. To me it made perfect sense that he achieved this rare ability.

[–] Zero_Wolf 9 years ago

Corrected Zaheer's name. Thank you.

Lava:

That's just not the way it works, lava is not going to touch rock and make more lava. Lava is going to touch rock and cool into rock. Even exposure to air causes a solid crust to form over lava. He made some lava in one room, and yet somehow it propagated until it was like an erupting volcano. Only an Avatar,in the Avatar state, has been shown to be able to manipulate at once the sheer amount of matter we see eventually destroying the Airbender Temple.

Zaheer:

So, even though he wasn't an airbender, he had studied airbending his whole life. Why? Was there any dialogue in the show to explain this, because if so I missed it. Was he actually doing airbender kata his whole life, even though it didn't actually do anything? Because simply reading about airbending would not have helped him actually airbend. (though it certainly seemed to help him fly)

____________________________
Death is the road to awe.

[–] Bioshock_Man 9 years ago

Remember that they wanted to kidnap Korra when she was a little girl to make her their ally. Zaheer probably trained all those Airbending techniques in order to become Korra's Airbending teacher.

I'm tired of talkin, Fuchs. I just wanna get up to my shack and get drunk.

[–] Zero_Wolf 9 years ago

Ok, that makes some sense, particularly since it's not like they had another option. Tenzin being unlikely to cooperate.

____________________________
Death is the road to awe.

[–] windkirby 9 years ago

Well admittedly I am no scientist so you may be right about the lava. I would think that if it has much, much more heat in it than normal lava that it might not cool so easily and would actually spread; but I'm just theorizing. I don't know anything about lava.

Zaheer studied airbender culture both because it spoke to him and he was obsessed with it, and also for functional purposes. If I understand correctly, it was important for the red lotus that they had a deep connection to all the elements and were able to implement that understanding into their plans. For one thing, they wanted to kidnap Korra when she was young and teach them their ways, including all forms of bending training. So Zaheer had to know his stuff because he was going to be the airbending teacher of the one and only Avatar. But I think it was important to them for reasons more universal than just that--if they were going to dismantle the world's nation structure and usher in a new age, they really had to have a good understanding of the nature of spirits and bending. I do think Zaheer had a love of airbending culture in his heart--like I said, you can see in his character that it is basically his religion. But on top of that I also think his learning airbending benefited the red lotus.

[–] PreachCaleb 9 years ago

One thing you have to keep in mind is these guys were already masters when they were subdued. And as we've seen, even in old age, masters are incredibly powerful. Just look at the White Lotus of Iroh, Pakku, Jeong Jeong, Piando, and also King Bumi. All of them were past their primes and were able to retake whole cities from the much younger soldiers of the Fire Nation.

Ming Hua, unlike other waterbenders has literally mastered using her element as an extension of her body. She is almost living water.

Ghazan is a lava bender. How do you fight lava? It doesn't cool as quickly as you'd like it to. It is incredibly hot and very dangerous.

How is that not also fire bending?

I like to think Ghazan, like Bolin, had parents who were from the earth kingdom and the fire nation.

Why couldn't any of the air or water benders just freeze it back into solid Earth?

Because Ghazan would just heat it back up.

His bending was just absurdly powerful, but at the same time easy to neutralize, though no one bothered to do so.

Not at all. Ghazan is essentially a walking volcano.

P'Li is essentially a walking rocket launcher with infinite ammo. No other attacks needed.

Zaheer, as others have said, had studied and learned all about airbending. He knew their gurus, their techniques, their history, everything. He knew all there was to know about airbending. He only lacked the actual ability to bend the air.

How did he master a flying technique so rare and difficult no one had done it in centuries, and was thought myth?

Because he didn't think it was a myth.

How did he learn to use it sufficiently well to escape, again, while under constant surveillance?

Because he wasn't. How does everyone who makes this argument miss the big solid metal door that Zaheer was kept imprisoned behind?

A lot of their abilities were unique (lava bending, combustion bending, airbending). Their opponents had never really fought against people with their abilities.

Remember, it wasn't just that they were powerful individuals; it was their strength as a unit that made them truly dangerous.

Can't stop the signal.

[–] DeusExKatrina 9 years ago

That's part of their beauty. The Red Lotus is the direct counterpart to our heroes, and they get the same unfounded powerup that they do!

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Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. True humility is the antidote to shame.

[–] TheWildAmbition 9 years ago

I always thought lava bending was more of a result of friction(the same way magma is formed) rather than a combo of fire and earthbending or in Bolin's case being an earthbender born to a firebending parent.

[–] PreachCaleb 9 years ago

Magma is formed through rocks being melted due to the heat trapped in the earth, not friction.

That being said, you might be right since it's not confirmed either way in the show.

Can't stop the signal.