MovieChat Forums > The Promise (2011) Discussion > is the show allowed to be historically i...

is the show allowed to be historically inacurate


because its taken from the diary of one brit soldier who only saw one view of history?

never mind that the israel of 2005 is portrayed inaccurately, or that the stories told by the arabs regarding what happened in 48 are allowed to stand without question.

this drama...which alleges to tell the whole story.....does not

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Well, there aren't laws against historical inaccuracy. So yes, it is. Enlighten me, then, what does this film miss out? Obviously, one sergeant in the Parachute Regiment and one girl on a gap year can't see everything, can they?

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I am the bringer of bad news bacci40, Captain America has never existed.

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this drama...which alleges to tell the whole story


And at what specific point does it 'allege to tell the whole story'?

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im just repeating what kominsky has said

he has repeatedly said that he wished to tell the story of the truth of the brit occupation of palestine....he does not

what does the drama leave out?

well, as it only shows the mandate post 45 and only 2005 israel...a hell whole of alot

it leaves out the occupation which began immediately after ww1

it leaves out brit forces sitting idly by during the 20s and 30s when arab massacred jews

it does not show how brutal the brit forces were with jews who attempted to escape the holocaust, and except for one scene, doesnt show the real brutality of brit forces toward jewish survivors (do you know that there was a concentration camp on cyprus....brit made)

it lies in its retelling of the dov gruner case...gruner was not put to death because he killed brit soldiers, he was put to death for attempting to steal arms..and he wasnt the only one executed that day...two others were....there was no attempted hospital breakout...and the sergeants incident is also mistold...the hagannah assisted the brits in looking for the kidnapped soldiers, there werent just riots in england (where jews died) there were revenge attacks by brit soldiers and police in tel aviv...where jews died...and the execution of the soldiers was widely condemned by jews both in occupied palestine and around the world

it makes up the entire ambush scene (i dare anyone to find the historical record of brit troops being assassinated while civilians sat and watched)

he attempts to compare the bombing of the king david with a suicide bombing of a cafe...what he doesnt tell the viewer is that 3 warnings were given before the bombing and that the planning was done after the raid on the kibbutz (where arms were taken, which were never meant to attack british forces, but were there as defense against repeated raids by arabs.....THE BRITS DID NOT PROTECT JEWS...EVER....and the king david was a military target....what military were stationed in that cafe?

kominsky has finally come clean as to what and who he used for research on this opus

he never spoke to former members of the irgun or hagannah....never spoke to israelis who lived during the occupation....

no...he interviewed former brit soldiers and members of far left, anti israel groups....thats it

he says he has watched documentaries and read books...but refuses to give details....so i will assume that he has used people like pappe and vids made by the ism and btsellem to fill out the rest of his research

havent watched part 4, but im sure it is as biased and absurd as the first three parts

kominsky is a fraud and a propagandist


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Wikipedia is a beautiful thing ain't it Bacci? All that info you just regurgitated at the click of a mouse.

So tell us when your Docu-drama is coming out? I'd love to see it.

All you keyboard warriors are the same. So much hate, so little skill yourself.

Do not grieve....soon I shall be one with the Matrix.

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it makes up the entire ambush scene (i dare anyone to find the historical record of brit troops being assassinated while civilians sat and watched)

It's laughable that you fixate on one incident, but don't dispute others, such as the one that was clearly based on the Car Park Murders.

THE BRITS DID NOT PROTECT JEWS...EVER....

Yeah, yeah. I guess someone just "imagined" that even after Irgun terrorists had murdered scores of British soldiers and civilians, Lt-Col Jack Churchill and his men still came to the aid of the Hadassah medical convoy, and then covered the evacuation of hundreds of patients and staff from the Jewish hospital.

Listening to the accounts of British soldiers who served in Palestine, an almost overwhelming theme is that most arrived with the utmost sympathy for the Jews, many of them having seen at first hand how they had suffered at the hands of the Nazis, yet there opinions eventually reversed when they saw their comrades being mudered by Irgun terrorists, and the way the Arabs were being treated as a whole. Funny how everyone could have "imagined" the same thing that you are so desperately trying to deny.

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>>he has repeatedly said that he wished to tell the story of the truth of the brit occupation of palestine....he does not


The greater "truth" probably. Obviously, these are fictionalized portrayals of similar real events.


>>it leaves out the occupation which began immediately after ww1


It was set WW2 plus so that is unsurprising.


>>it leaves out brit forces sitting idly by during the 20s and 30s when arab massacred jews


Not idly, but British record under the Mandate was mixed, it's true.


>>except for one scene, doesnt show the real brutality of brit forces toward jewish survivors (do you know that there was a concentration camp on cyprus....brit made)


Well, if there was a scene then there is no sin of ommission. He gets the point you wanted across.


>>and the execution of the soldiers was widely condemned by jews both in occupied palestine and around the world


The series did make a larger point about divided loyalties. Even the ex-IDF soldier sympathetic to the Palestinian cause was willing to fire upon them at a moment's notice.


>>THE BRITS DID NOT PROTECT JEWS...EVER....


Nonsense.


>>and the king david was a military target....what military were stationed in that cafe?


Aren't all Israeli's reservists? That's the PLO or Hamas's argument anyway. The warning is the old IRA excuse. A bomb can go off by accident before time. You can shut down all operations with continual hoax calls. The warning argument is blaming the victims. They had a UN mandate, like it or not.


>>he never spoke to former members of the irgun or hagannah....never spoke to israelis who lived during the occupation....


There was a scene where a surviving Irgun tells Erin his reasons for expelling the British. I believe that was a commanly held view at the time. Not by all, some who favoured cooperation.


>>kominsky is a fraud and a propagandist


No, I don't think that's fair. He may have over-egged the pudding a bit for the sake of dramatization. He did get across what it must be like to be occupied. The sheer terror of it.


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Lt-Col Jack Churchill and his men still came to the aid of the Hadassah medical convoy, and then covered the evacuation of hundreds of patients and staff from the Jewish hospital.


That was an exception. Other British soldiers stood by, for hours. Churchill's calls for reinforcements and permission to use mortars at his disposal were denied.

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[deleted]

it leaves out the occupation which began immediately after ww1

Surely you are joking.

The Promise is about one small part of the history of Palestine. It couldn't possibly cover the while of jewish history.

Yes, it gives more of an Arab than a Jewish point of view, but it doesn't pretend to be an Israel propaganda piece.

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you are the fraud and the propagandist, kominsky didn't start from the begining when some egyptians came to the land of cannanites with moses, or maybe he should have mentioned the beginng before that when abraham married his sister sarah like egyptian farohs according to the bible, perverts.

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it makes up the entire ambush scene (i dare anyone to find the historical record of brit troops being assassinated while civilians sat and watched)


I hate to let the air out of your balloon but that incident was told to me by my uncle who served in Palestine with the British army 1945-8. I was one of the few people in the family who showed any interest in his service, which I think he appreciated.

He told me about an ambush that involved fellow soldiers who were in town on leave. They were all shot at point blank range by armed Jewish terrorists (his words) who 'melted' into the crowd after. They were all his friends and he explained to me that the only reason he wasn't there himself was because he'd been detained and couldn't go.

He died ten years ago, 6 years before this programme was made. When I finally watched this series, I nearly fell out of my chair in astonishment when I saw the ambush scene depicted in episode 2. Up until that moment I was quite skeptical about the director's research. After that, I had no doubt that it was meticulous, which has since been confirmed by reading that he interviewed over 80 former British soldiers, a former member of the Irgun and current IDF soldiers.

I realise this post is a few months old, but my question is this: if Israel has nothing to hide, why are the files on the Deir Yassin massacre still classified?

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Peter Kosiminsky: "We carried out an extensive research process for the modern-day story, both within Israel and outside. In this I was helped extensively by Israeli colleagues who generously gave their time and contacts to ensure that we could present a rounded picture. We also drew heavily on testimony from two sources - Combatants for Peace, (a local organisation dedicated to bringing former combatants from both sides together in the quest for peace), and Breaking the Silence, (a group of IDF soldiers who served primarily in Hebron and have spoken very powerfully and honestly about what they witnessed there). Both these sources are readily publicly available via the Web. We also drew on homegrown Israeli documentaries about the current situation and on films made by outside documentarists, particularly in Hebron."

The King David Hotel was being used by the military so could be classed as a military target and the staff, collateral damage. The suggestion that the bomb was planted by a better class of terrorist is a generous one at best. Certainly, their general tactics during the rest of the liberation struggle did not play by Queensbury rules.

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It makes a change from the one-sided, Jewish propaganda being forced down our throats most of the time. It made for a refreshing change and it's nice to see Jews squirming.

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Yes but you smell ! -- so many proverbial cheap arguments around here :-)

Let's count the trolls around here who know everything from history, and of course must ALL be 100% correct in their comments...

one
two
three
...

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In answer to the dare earlier...

From a British Report:

"An officer and three soldiers were shot from behind whilst in a Jeep in Herzl Street. When the shots were fired, the crowd immediately dispersed, and the two Jews who committed the outrage walked up the steps of a narrow passage into Nordau Street, where they sat down in Cafe Sternheim and took a coffee..."

Maybe that's where Kominsky got it from. Very similar to what happens.

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Quote - Yes but you smell ! -- so many proverbial cheap arguments around here :-)

Let's count the trolls around here who know everything from history, and of course must ALL be 100% correct in their comments...

one
two
three /Quote


Your comments are noted.

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As I said another tread, My Father in Law was there with the Royal Signal Corps in 1945-1948 and to be fair this series is almost indentical to his recollections.

What really upset him most was the way all the atrocities against his comrades are heralded as victories on a memorial in a museum in Israel. But of course if one even criticises Israel one is seen as anti-semitic, therefore I can't see this series making it in the USA.

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What really upset him most was the way all the atrocities against his comrades are heralded as victories on a memorial in a museum in Israel.


Cyprus is kind of similar too with the EOKA though at least they are upfront about it.

I actually went to the Irgun Museum in Tel Aviv last year, and they had a replica of the type of bomb used to blow up the King David and a model of the hotel. Then displays on other stuff - bomb making equipment, blowing up the British Embassy in Rome, train derailments. Oh and a hall of martyrs, but I thought only the Palestinians celebrated dead terrorists?

I also got a big plush book on the IZL there which records every attack they mounted against the British, far more than Western histories usually cover (it's called the IZL Lexicon before anyone says I made it up, and a (left wing) Israeli friend sent me the LHI Lexicon as a Christmas present in 2007!). Both books have a helpful list at the back of the hundreds of markers and sites you can see around Israel if you want to trace the "struggle for liberation".

That was still not the funniest part, however, as I noticed the book was published by the Israeli Ministry of Defence. Things got really odd when the girl in the shop (this was in the Jabotinsky Institute) remarked that this wasn't odd at all as the museum is run by the Ministry of Defence, which means they are also responsible for this pro-terrorist site:

http://www.etzel.org.il/english/

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I'm an arab and i have to say something about jews.

we didn't hate them until they stole our land. i don't care what god 'promised' them what. it's all nonsense to me and i see it as a full occupation of palestine. over 90% of all arabs share that view with me so don't expect a bright future for israel. and to all israelis: if you have the tiniest piece of brain you should leave israel and go to US or canada or whatever before things gets uglier

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You share the same DNA as your brother, despite what the books and leaders say.

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I'm an arab and i have to say something about jews.

we didn't hate them until they stole our land. i don't care what god 'promised' them what. it's all nonsense to me and i see it as a full occupation of palestine. over 90% of all arabs share that view with me so don't expect a bright future for israel. and to all israelis: if you have the tiniest piece of brain you should leave israel and go to US or canada or whatever before things gets uglier
Wow, deep brother; such insightful thoughts you have there.

Ever heard of the term compromise, as without that everyone has nothing to build on.
(Northern Ireland Good Friday Agreement comes to mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Agreement.)

...oh, and BTW, it's the state of Israel not all jewish people you should be talking about. But don't let subtle racism get in your way of a good argument or anything.

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Innacurate!? Jews are still massacring Palestinians to this day. Palestine has no army, never has, yet is brutalized on a daily basis by the army of an occupying force. The way Israelis treat Palestinians, makes apartheid look like a kindness in comparison!

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