MovieChat Forums > Dark Horse (2012) Discussion > fantastic film, what did the last scene ...

fantastic film, what did the last scene mean? (spoilers)


It's terrific! If you have a half a brain or are open to the unconventional or appreciate movies that reward a second viewing (which I look forward to) or just all around great acting and writing you will totally enjoy this, I really thought it was something special. And I'd be curious to hear from people who did see it, what they thought the last scene was meant to indicate? Was it all Marie's fantasy? To me the hint was that we see a large man in a suit cross her field of vision, implying that all her fantasies of being a care taker, rescuer, femme fatale figure to this dysfunctional man were completely delusional. But it was so quick, I have to wonder, did it start off being about Abe and then at some point her dream takes over?

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yes! I was lost. I will have to watch it again when it comes out on dvd. Don't like it as much as his other movies, which I love, but I'm not disappointed, just really confused. Abe to me, was like an uptight, selfish, annoying, bratty, horrible version of a Seth Rogan-type character. Now, I get the whole writing career comment from Selma Blair in the bedroom, too, if that's the girl from the writing class in Storytelling.

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She (and of course Abe) missed their chance.

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No, Louielouielouielouie, I don't think it does start off being about Abe. As I see it, the entire film except for the very end is Marie's fantasy. This is why she appears in inappropriate places, this is why she turns into a 'cougar' with a Ferrari, this is why Abe kisses her in the hospital bed and is dancing with her after his 'funeral', this is why the continuity is so wayward and characters are constantly reimagined. SHE is the 'dark horse', not him (dark horse in the sense of someone who has hidden depths).

The reviews I've seen so far have entirely missed this but it clicked for me as soon as I saw them dancing. David Lynch's films mostly work in the same way so once you get the idea it's not hard to figure out.

It's not a delusion though, it's simply a daydream. Take a look at your own office manager sometime and wonder. Still waters run deep.....

I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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This was so obvious to me and I'm wondering why it wasn't to many other viewers.

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Sorry, but that makes no sense. Why would Marie be dreaming about Abe's parents telling him that he's a failure? Those dreams were obviously Abe's represented his insecurities. Only the dancing scene was Marie's dream. It's tragic because the whole time Abe was after a girl who wasn't attracted to him, while the woman who loved him was right under his nose. There isn't any "hope" in the ending, just like in Welcome to the Dollhouse. That is Todd Solondz style. I like that his films are honest, but they possess a cynical mood to them as well.

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It is in no way Marie's dream. Abe has visions of Marie which allow him essentially to talk to himself. Solondz economically signaling the shift into this interior realm by putting Marie in situations where she normally just wouldn't fit.

The whole film is about Abe and at one point says he always thought of himself as a dark horse. At the end the spirit of Abe returns to his house. A glimpse inside Marie's psyche reveals that she secretly loved him.

The reviewers didn't miss the point, you did.



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The whole film is about Abe and at one point says he always thought of himself as a dark horse. At the end the spirit of Abe returns to his house. A glimpse inside Marie's psyche reveals that she secretly loved him.

"Loved" might be a bit strong, but she cared for him, certainly. It's meant to serve as a counterpoint to Abe's earlier monologue about people not caring-- unless they've just been "well fed, or after good sex". It transpires that Marie did care about him, in a genuinely selfless way. There's some good interviews with Solondz on Youtube regarding this movie. Very enlightening.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qssvnjj5Moo

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That's interesting. I just think she's fantasizing at the end because all along she had a thing for him, and he didn't detect it - the whole time he was chasing some other chick, and right across from him was someone who loved him.



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But the story is clearly told through Marie's eyes. She is the outsider looking in at this and relaying the information to the audience through her own filter, of course. It's told backwards (SPOILER) but it's how she sees it. I think it's clever-she's demure and mousy in the office but we the audience get to see what she thinks and feels and, most importantly, what she sees.

The lines between fantasy and reality are very blurred in this-it requires a few viewings to 'get' it. And I'm certain Soldanz intended it that way.

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But why would she appear in the fantasy sequence where she tells Abe that Selma is out of his league before she even knew he was dating Selma (if it was her fantasy)? Doesn't that imply that it's Abe's fantasy? Or is that what you mean by it being told backwards? I'll have to watch it again.

Ok, I just listened to an interview with Solondz and two of the cast members (Abe and Marie) and I think you guys are way off-base with this Lynchian interpretation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fqlxbDYoEs)



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The film is in reverse order. The beginning is the end and the end the beginning. At least that was my take. I'm going to watch it again soon and maybe I'll re-evaluate then.

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How did you develop this theory that it's all through her eyes? Is it because the very last scene is her fantasy sequence? Pretty sure it's both of them fantasizing about each other throughout the movie, because she is the only one that genuinely cares about him. Like the scene of her being a cougar was his fantasy, while the scene of them dancing at the end is hers and shows her real (modest) apartment, as opposed to the sexy one depicted in his fantasy.



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Clearly all the dreams are Marie's? That makes no sense. Not what the movie is at all, and it's not in reverse (what the hell?). The dreams belong to Abe, except the dancing scene belongs to Marie. The dreams where the characters (Abe's subconscious) is telling Abe that he is a failure and all these negative things reflect Abe's own insecurities. They also told Abe that he has rejected all the opportunities to better his life. He was his own worst enemy, and Marie was the last opportunity he missed before he died. He spent his time expecting unrealistic things and wanted them to come easy. That's why he was so disappointed in life, because that is not the way life works.

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That's a great interpretation that makes a lot more sense than the previous attempts.

"He's a frustrated, obnoxious loser who's too coddled and oblivious to take responsibility for his failures." Spot on!

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This is a perfect summation. Thank you.

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Just watched this last night and I never thought of the interpretation that the entire film except for the last shot of Marie at her desk is actually Marie's fantasy. Neither was the possibility discussed in any of the MRQE reviews I read, although I suppose it isn't really the job of a professional reviewer to give away the ending of a film. Anyway, I'm not entirely discounting it.

What some reviews offered instead was that the ending could be read in two ways, either a glimmer of hope, a tender thought about the now departed Abe (the dancing in Marie's apartment), or a cruel joke. I only read it as the former, and still can't see how it could be the latter. I mean I know as a film it's mostly quite bleak, as Solondz pictures are, but those closing moments seemed nothing but heartfelt and tragic, but faintly hopeful at the same time.

Speaking of the ending, those end credits and the cacophony that accompanied them were so jarring after the subtlety of the final scene! Probably more jarring than anything else in the film.

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Was it ever explained that Miranda and Richard had ever even met before she alluded to the baby not being Abe's in the hospital? And at what point would Abe have blacked out at the club?

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==--
Yeah, I noticed that too, and I'm absolutely sure it was deliberate, to make you more aware of how you feel when you see the sad, twist ending. Though I think as slow, poignant jazz instrumental would be better.

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I don't think they are hopeful. That isn't really Todd Solondz's style. All the other movies I've seen of him have an ending that is honest and does not sugarcoat anything. The ending showed how *beep* up it was that Abe wasted his time on a girl who did not love him when the woman who actually loved him was under his nose the entire time. There's a reason for the characters telling Abe (his own subconscious) that he always rejects opportunities and never tries to better himself. He wants everything to come easy and expects unrealistic things in life, hence why he is depressed and disappointed in life and people. Marie was another opportunity that he missed because he was being too selfish.

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It is explained by the director and actors in the Q&A posted in the thread

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Typical message board overthinking. Every dream but the last sequence is Abe's dream.

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Actually that's not true. Some of the scenes were reality (for example: the coffee shop scene, the scenes where Marie looked like and played the demure quiet secretary). The rest were Abe's fantasy (i.e. where Marie was more of a cougar/vixen), EXCEPT for the final scene which was Marie's fantasy and after Abe died.

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I said all of the DREAMS were Abe's, not that all of the SCENES were Abe's dreams. I agree with your interpretation.

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