Any other Sarah/Joe shippers out there?
I first read the book as a teenager in Hull over 30 years ago, and have seen the previous versions (the 1930s film and the 1970s serial). Any other Sarah/Joe shippers out there?
shareHaving neither read the book nor seen any adaptations, I must admit that I was rooting for the obvious coupling of Sarah/Robert. The moody, enigmatic guys always hold more attraction for me than the nice, ordinary blokes. Blame it on years of reading of such literary heroes as Darcy, Rochester, etc.
After tonight's episode, however, I can see that this doomed relationship is on the road to nowhere. So nice guy Joe is looking more attractive. Hope it ends relatively happily.
If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
Ah, do read the book! Joe's back-story is very impressive (and also rather tragic and tormented): a Clydeside Red who's been in South Africa, working with Black trades unions & c. (Winnie partly based him on a friend of hers in South Africa.) Also, his wife is definitely really dead: Rebecca died of flu in 1924. Joe got TB after that, in South Africa.
Politically and everything, he was the one I fell for when I first read the book in my mid-teens. (Funnily, all the fictional heroes I love best are ones I discovered around that time!)
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I must admit that I prefer the Sarah/Robert pairing. Having said that, I feel that Joe is the one Sarah ought to be attracted to. I don't think Carne is a particularly nice character but there's something about the bluff Yorkshireman with his uncompromising moodiness that draws me. I remember having a crush on Nigel Davenport when he played Carne in the 70s and David Morrissey is looking very good in the part!
Music is the mediator between the spiritual and the sensual life.
I never liked Robert at all in the book: I kept wanting to jump up and down and point out to Sarah: "No! No! The other one!" It's always annoyed me in novels when characters go for the wrong, totally incompatible people.
(I have been known to shout at the screen in versions of Tess of the d'Urbervilles, "No, you stupid cow! Kill the other one!" and Notre Dame de Paris upsets me greatly with Claude, the brilliant young priest and intellectual, driven to madness and crime over an empty-headed bimbo dancing-girl.)
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I kept wanting to jump up and down and point out to Sarah: "No! No! The other one!" It's always annoyed me in novels when characters go for the wrong, totally incompatible people.
It is tooth grindingly annoying isn't it? But I suppose it makes for great dramatic tension. To defend Sarah, she doesn't know Robert raped his wife so doesn't have the full picture we have.
As someone who has read the novel silverwhistle, would you say this has been a faithful adaptation? I haven't read it myself.
share
It is tooth grindingly annoying isn't it? But I suppose it makes for great dramatic tension. To defend Sarah, she doesn't know Robert raped his wife so doesn't have the full picture we have.
But their politics and basic values are incompatible, and they both know that. I've never bought into the idea that you build a lasting relationship when everything you value is the polar opposite of the other person's values. You might (as so nearly happened) get a brief, physical fling out of it, but not a meeting of minds or a soul-mate. They'd be quarrelling all the time.
As someone who has read the novel silverwhistle, would you say this has been a faithful adaptation?
As far as it goes. A lot has been pared down to fit the short running-time. We've lost a number of sub-plots and supporting characters, and back-story (surprisingly, we've lost a fair bit of both Sarah and Joe's backgrounds). Oh, and in the book, poor Annie's baby survived, so Lydia had a newborn baby to look after, as well as all the other children. But it's much better than the 85-minute 1938 film, which changed a lot, and I prefer the main casting in this version to the 1970s serial.
Your point about incompatibilty is, of course, true in real life. But in romantic literature, the time-honoured tradition is for the hero and heroine to finally get together after overcoming initial prejudice and misunderstanding. 'Fraid I've been reading too many novels of the Mills & Boon ilk. South Riding is obviously a bit more grownup.
Btw, I bought the book today.
If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
I detest Mills & Boon and the formula 'romance' genre, I'm afraid!
There's also a bit of a difference between minor "misunderstandings" between people and having fundamentally opposing philosophies and politics.
I got a new paperback ed t'other day (with the current cast on the cover), as my old ex-library 1936 hardback is at my parents' in Hull. I realised I'd misremembered one or 2 things, and have corrected posts accordingly.
In one respect, I'm glad Joe's physically delicate: otherwise Sarah might have to lock him up to stop him doing something reckless, like going to Spain… He is the stuff of which heroes are made, but needs more in the way of self-preservation instinct.
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I haven't read the book either--so who does Sarah end up choosing?? What disease did Joe get from his wife?
shareI haven't read the book either--so who does Sarah end up choosing??
It's left open-ended, but only one of them is still alive by then… (And I'm not saying.) It' a bit of a toss-up, isn't it? One has a dodgy heart, one has dodgy lungs…
What disease did Joe get from his wife?
Joe has pulmonary TB.
Edited:
I misremembered. (Have now got a new paperback, as my hardback is down in Hull.) Rebecca Astell died of influenza in 1924. Joe got TB in South Africa, and came back to the UK for surgery, so it's not caught from her.
I really do wish they would let a series run for more than three eps which seems to be popular - must be a budget thing. Can anyone remember did the 70's series run for longer? It would be marvellous to say have this run as long as the Forsyte Saga did (both the original and 2002 version). Have started the book and am really warming to Sarah shares a lot of my own values. Keep up the good work Beeb, less reality TV type things and more quality drama please.
shareHaving read what Silverwhistle says about subplots being dropped etc, then I would agree it seems a shame to condense it into 3 episodes.
Couldn't agree more about wanting more of this sort of thing/fewer of the reality type programmes (and can I add cooking shows to that).
Agreed. In this adaptation, Robert is getting more back-story than anyone else, which puts it all out of balance.
BTW: I've just corrected my previous comment (having now got a paperback, as my hardback – a 1936 ex-library copy – is still in Hull) – Rebecca Astell died of influenza in 1924. Joe got TB in South Africa, and came back to the UK for surgery.
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Replying in sequence here. I am JUST loving this series and I think I might hunt out the original. We are all reading and buying the book, I hope Winifred's estate is benefitting seriously :))
shareSadly, the literary prize established in her memory was closed a few years ago:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/feb/19/south-riding-winifred-holt by-rereading?commentpage=last#end-of-comments
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The 1970s version ran for 13 weeks which gave us plenty of time to get to know the characters in depth. I do feel short-changed at having this great novel shown in three episodes. I agree with you entirely - less reality TV and more quality drama please BBC!
Music is the mediator between the spiritual and the sensual life.
Yes. I really love the cast in this version, and want more time with them!
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Thanks for your reply, silverwhistle. I must have missed Joe saying he had TB--but then I was having trouble understanding some of the accents so know I missed a lot of dialogue. Will have to rewatch soon. I'm going to guess that it's Robert who dies as I read somewhere him being referred to as the "doomed Robert Carne." What a shame for either of them to die young!
I just ordered the book and am looking forward to reading it now.
Joe is, of course, Glaswegian! I moved to Glasgow from Fife (which I regard as my home, despite my first 18 years being in the real 'South Riding', with a Hull mother and a Highland father!) in 2003, and still find it hard to keep up with some of the locals' speech-patterns!
This adaptation seems to have dropped mention of him having TB. There was a line in episode 1 about his weak chest being because of being gassed. But in the book, Joe spent WW1 imprisoned as a conscientious objector. And he's always coughing, poor lamb, from his first appearance at a council meeting in the prologue.
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