MovieChat Forums > Ultramarines: A Warhammer 40,000 Movie (2010) Discussion > *spoilers*Seriously, how was this GW app...

spoilersSeriously, how was this GW approved

posted 13 years ago by blace_lives
43 replies | jump to latest

I wanted to like this movie but there were some flaws that seriously ruined it for me.

The main problem was that i dont think that it really properly conveyed the 40k universe. The acting was good, the score was good, i thought the graphics quality was fine. However the attention to detail regarding how certain things in the 40k universe works was not.

For example the crozius arcanum. Its a power weapon mace which is pretty much a technologically advanced hitty stick that can shear through armour. I mean seriously the energy blast thing was just stupid. How do they expect veteran 40k players to overlook a glaring flaw like that.

Also daemon princes are meant to be psycho wrecking balls that wade through the midst of battlefield shredding stuff and using brute force against enemies not some weird little screwed up version of the flash lol. Seriously in the game and the fluff they are lumbering beasts not weird little fast jumpy fags.

Also what the hell was supposed to happen with the captain. Its not like he was a psyker so he couldn't be possessed that way and i doubt he willing took part in a chaos rituals. Daemons in 40k are monsters from a parrelel dimension have physical forms that can be shot appart that they need to maintain to continue to exist outside the warp. They dont body hop for *beep* sake. Its A chaos daemon not a demon in the real world sense.

So yeah as an avide fan of the 40k universe and very experienced with chaos fluff and play against chaos players often i have to say that i was very dissapointed by this title.

Anyone else aggree?

[–] rick7475 13 years ago

I agree there were leaps from canon, but I still enjoyed the movie and rated it high. I think to portray the marines with a limited budget, and capture as many of the marine roles possible, using a tactical squad with a captain and an apothecary was probably a good approach. However, I did feel many more details could have been added. Overall I am happy and look for more movies in the future.

[–] jayloveserin 13 years ago

*spoilers*

Dan Abnett (who has penned many warhammer novels and knows this franchise well) seemed to just pull out of the bag the most formulaic, tedious, unimaginative script of his career - and then take liberties with well known and accepted 40k canon which is a heresy considering this is the first ever movie length version of the 40K universe and possible introduction to many.

As for the action sequences themselves: I simply did not care which ultramarine died next, as these brave but stupid 'ultimate warriors' resolutely walked into ambush after ambush with little to no combat tactics:

Being shot at by enemy snipers? stand in the open just shouting and firing your gun!
Being stalked in the dark by a demonic creature? stand in the open just shouting and firing your gun!
Hordes of enemy warriors charging you down? stand in a tight knit group in the open just shouting and firing your guns!

For a universe and culture that is at endless war, with chapters of space marines being trained for generations to the highest pinacle of combat readiness, the Ultramarines really SUCK at making tactical battle decisions! I think the only tactical choice made was NOT to take the high ground, because the enemy would be expecting that.. so instead, they simply stood around, in the open together, and waited for the attack. I actually laughed at that point at the absurdity of it all.

Perhaps the writer and director thought that the action scenes would seem more tragically heroic, beleagured heroes of mankind making a final stand together etc but they just seemed naive, arrogant and ultimately suicidal to me.

[–] dalati 13 years ago

Dan Abnett (who has penned many warhammer novels and knows this franchise well) seemed to just pull out of the bag the most formulaic, tedious, unimaginative script of his career

Writing a novel and penning a script are WAY different. I'm willing to bet that Abnett had almost complete leeway regarding the actual story in his novels (he was still bound strictly to GW canon regarding the setting).

Movies work very differently. You have producers there and the only job of a producer, it sometimes seems to me, is to "dumb down" a screenwriter's script for the masses. Take the (much lamented) fact that the Space Marines in this movie are never really shown to be the hulking Juggernauts that they really should be. I'm willing to bet that this was a producer's decision - 8 foot giant humans are just "too far out there" for the average dumbnut moviegoer to swallow. Or at least to the average producer this seems to be set in stone.

You can believe me. I don't write movie scripts, but I have a creative writing job and a producer and I get to hear stuff like that EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

- Anwar

---
One man's sockpuppet is another man's freedom fighter.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] iluvmallow 13 years ago

"Being shot at by enemy snipers? stand in the open just shouting and firing your gun!
Being stalked in the dark by a demonic creature? stand in the open just shouting and firing your gun!
Hordes of enemy warriors charging you down? stand in a tight knit group in the open just shouting and firing your guns! "

They were shot at by snipers - they responded by pinning them with heavy fire whilst two closed for hand to hand, doesnt sound bad to me?

Being stalked by a demon, what are they supposed to do? chase it around one by one and get picked off or stay in the light, huddle and defend, like they did?

Hordes of enemy warriors charging them down - they had very little cover to use and they had a rendevous to make, they did a fighting withdrawl and most of the time maintained a wedge formation, again theres nothing crazy or untactical about it.

All in all a good first effort. Obviously the CGI wasn't mind blowing but hey, for a small production company I think they did a great job and I hope this film covers costs well enough to warrant a second film.

[–] admin-441 13 years ago

You are mistaken about demons not being able to "body-hop". This has happened before.

Shadows fell on their futile ways, and then there was nothing more...

[–] blace_lives 13 years ago

Name one occasion

[–] markador 13 years ago

Leonatos in bloodquest

But is this a flaw in the movie? if a demon can get into a non-psyker or not? there are some major flaws in the movie at the first place the least of them being that or if the crozius arcanum emit a bubble of killing power...

[–] blace_lives 13 years ago

That happened inside the eye of terror where the warp and realspace are interwoven and they dont truely have to take physical form so the example of leonatos in bloodquest doesn't validate what happens to Captain Severus. I understand that they couldn't do huge battles and that but flaws like that in a movie suppose to be made for the fans annoys me.

[–] admin-441 13 years ago

In the flight of the eisenstein, there's a warp demon posing as the captain of the ship, or some such.

Shadows fell on their futile ways, and then there was nothing more...

[–] blace_lives 13 years ago

I think people to often forget what chaos daemons actually are. They aren't supernatural demons like something from the occult. They're monsters from a parallel dimension who are physical and tangible which is why they can be hacked apart and blown to pieces. Otherwise the space marines wouldn't a single battle they'd just body hope the whole army which they cant do which is why space marines can defeat chaos marines in battle like Marneus Calgar the Ultramarines chapter master ripping daemons and daemon princes appart with his powerfists without getting 'possesd' as such BECAUSE THEY CANT BODY HOP!

[–] killrazor_tk 13 years ago

I think that a few people here need to read a few more of the stories from the WH40K universe before make comments like that above.

The texts refer to Chaos as 'Primordial'....please look that word up!!!

The stuff of Chaos was around before even the C'tan were in their infancy. The stories passed down the ages through religion are meant to be tellings of those Primordial beings that dwell within the Emperyean.

The idea of Psykers being the only ones that can be possessed is not only naive, but also innane. Any being, human, super-human, ork, eldar, tau, etc.... can be possessed by a demon of Chaos (maybe with the exception of Tyranid and Necron) it is simply that Psykers are more succeptable as they allow their minds to explore the warp and draw on the powers within.

To refer to it as Body Hopping is ridiculous. A demon needs a physical vessel to stay manifest in the realm of realspace. Therefore a demon (especially a demon prince or greater) would be able to perform basic transference rituals so that they may enter a new vessel before the one they currently inhabit withers under the effects of chaos.

For further information on demons possessing Space Marines, refer to the Horus Heresy title 'The First Heretic'.

[–] blace_lives 13 years ago

Yeah somehow i think the codexes that define the universe have more authority. The creature was either a daemon prince or a greater daemon since it had sentience.

Daemon princes are actually really currupted and messed up Chaos Lords or Sorcerers and thus arn't true daemons but Chaos space marines Currupted beyond recognition. Cant randomly posses people they have a set form. Greater daemons take reidulous amounts of energy to coporealise and slay the host when they burst out of it. They take complex rituals and the sacrifice has to be willing, someone with strong connections to chaos like a champion, sorcerer or lord and the subject is slain by the procedure. Also the daemon is bound to its new form till it is banished.

Demons in religions are described well outside of the bounds of chaos daemons in the 40k universe and cant be killed by guns or other weapons so yeah i think its naive to think you can blur the lines of a religious demon and a chaos daemon.

Games workshops employ many different writers who sometimes ignore the established fluff so just cause its in a random novel doesn't mean it supersedes the codexes which define the game and the universe.

So yeah your still wrong and this is why i was unhappy with the representation of the greater daemon or daemon prince

[–] killrazor_tk 13 years ago

One word for you dude.....CHAOS!

Look it up!

[–] killrazor_tk 13 years ago

But to quell all arguements.....ITS NOT REAL!!!!!!

If the film is allowed for any sort of release by the company then they must have the approval of GW as they own the intellectual rights for the universe that they have created. Therefore any and all materials which are published and made public to the populace for money, must be sanctioned by GW.....therefore.....stop bitching...they obviously thought that it was good enough.

[–] Cirative 13 years ago

I didn't have a problem with the crozius. At first I thought to myself, "What the ****?" but then I realized it could've been a chapter relic, or a specialized weapon (like Marneus Calgar's gauntlets, or Abaddon's Talon of Horus).

[–] killrazor_tk 13 years ago

I've been playing 40k since it was known as Rogue Trader and I actually didn't mind what Codex Pictures released.

Don't get me wrong.....it could have been a *beep* load better!

Lets face it, who the hell wants to watch a movie about the 'No Frills' marines? The Ultramarines are the Astartes equivelant of an English Cricket Captain (a dime a dozen) and have nothing to make them stand out from other Marines other then pretty armour and a few special characters (none of which were even so much as mentioned in the film).

The better option would have been to go with the Space Wolves, the Dark Angels, the Salamanders....a chapter that has some mystery to them and alot more flavour.

But puting my personal loathing for the Ultramarines aside, I could only fault the production on a couple of points.

The first would have to be the low quality rendering of the characters onto a clearly high quality armatures....I would have expected crap like that from Blizzard.

The second would have to be the complete lack of marketing and availability....an online ordering system where your global region dictates which currency you get to pay in...(go live in America, cause they seem to get the cheapest rates) not to mention the ridiculous lead time of 2 weeks unless you want to mortgage your house to get it couriered to you (with the overpriced courier fee and the fact you have to wait at home for a courier to deliver the product, which I'm sure is about $100 gross a day for most workers....OMG!!)

Thirdly! 70 minutes does not a feature film make!!!.....at just over an hour this is more like a holiday special......more footage and alittle more intrigue would have made the film go alot further and ready to compete with other films in cinemas.

Ultimately the one thing that you can't fault about the movie is the use of Dan Abnett as writer......!!!! Top move Codex Pics !!!!!!

There seems to be alot of bitching about the demon......STOP IT....the demon was the best thing about the whole film.....then best rendered and best animated part of the movie.....the artists should be proud of it.

All in all a lack lustre film that somehow only marginally dissapointed.....6/10

P.S. As for those bitching about the Crozius Arcanum.....it's called a relic!!! There is no reason as to why this particular Crozius doesn't have the ability to charge an area effect blast...the Warhammer 40,000 universe is full of unique pieces of wargear.

[–] derangedchemist 13 years ago

They took an epic war torn universe and made a 'haunted house' horror film. Horror films have to make their characters inept or helpless at some point for their plot to work. This is one of the reasons the Ultramarines looked like a bunch of amateur cosplayers. I would be fine with a straightforward scrap against Chaos if we got a sense of the Marines being an elite force chosen by a God-Emperor to protect mankind.

[–] familyofjokers 13 years ago

FROM KILLRAZOR TK: The idea of Psykers being the only ones that can be possessed is not only naive, but also innane. Any being, human, super-human, ork, eldar, tau, etc.... can be possessed by a demon of Chaos (maybe with the exception of Tyranid and Necron) it is simply that Psykers are more succeptable as they allow their minds to explore the warp and draw on the powers within.

Good point. Most non-psychic Humans do have a latent psychic presence in the Warp. Daemons see other creatures by detecting this latent presence. However, certain Humans (known as Pariahs) have no psychic signature at all, therefore they can never be possessed, or be affected by any psychic power. Also, the Tau have no presence in the Warp, so it is questionable as to whether any of them could be possessed by a Daemon. Sorry if this sounds pedantic.

[–] Mortagon 13 years ago

The crozius as mentioned could have been a special relic so no canon discrepancy there.

To me it seemed like the demon prince was using a chaos ritual to appear as the captain by melding his face onto himself and wearing his armour, as seen later on when he rips off the face and tosses it on the ground. The books are littered with examples of warp sorcery like this, there are also several warp entities that lacks a physical presence and actually need a body to possess to exist outside the empyrean.

As for the movie, I call it a good first attempt, but then again I had been following the devs diary and knew what to expect. I hope this will be the first in a long line of 40k movies.

[–] killrazor_tk 13 years ago

You are failing to take into account that they ARE amateurs..The bulk of the Ultramarines force in the movie is made up of unblooded warriors doning their ceramite plate for the first time.....Such a tactless approach would have been out of place for more experienced astartes.

[–] ChefC 13 years ago

They weren't being led by an amateur so your argument is invalid I'm afraid.

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Who would have guessed it, we all have different opinions about subjective things!

[–] killrazor_tk 13 years ago

Rewatch the movie dude!!!.....Proteus is a rookie.....freshly out of scout armour and waering power plate for the dirst time.....if that doesn't consitute an amateur....I don't know what does!!!

[–] ChefC 13 years ago

Maybe you should rewatch it buddy! Proteus only took charge after the original leader was killed, which wasn't until over halfway into the film.

They were making inferior tactical decisions long before that happened.

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Who would have guessed it, we all have different opinions about subjective things!

[–] killrazor_tk 13 years ago

They are Ultramarines.....their tactics have always been below par and inferior, despite what any mythos might suggest.

And 2nd company.....Captain should have been Sicarius...not Severus

[–] ChefC 13 years ago

Erm.... That doesn't change the fact that their leader was a veteran and the tactics employed were far from worthy of somebody bred for war.

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Who would have guessed it, we all have different opinions about subjective things!

[–] killrazor_tk 13 years ago

If they are promoting scouts from battle-brother to brother-captain in 1 mission....then I'd be very careful how you use the word VETEREN

[–] ChefC 13 years ago

I'm not sure if you are trying to argue for or against the issues with this film.

All you're doing now is highlighting even more reasons why it was weak.

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Who would have guessed it, we all have different opinions about subjective things!

[–] killrazor_tk 13 years ago

I never said it wasn't weak. I knew it would be weak as soon as I found out that it was about Ultramarines.

[–] frankzappayay 13 years ago

Seriously, how was this GW approved

I don't get how people can even ask stuff like this. You never heard of money? Write any company or individual a big enough cheque and they'll let you use anything in any way you want.

[–] diggler302 13 years ago

They obviously spent everything buying the rights to make this then. Even a good story was not going to save this movie, because the animation was so sub-par that it destroyed the experience.

[–] kubiak2000 13 years ago

Damn this movie was a pile of poo.

The graphics quality is good...

... for a 1995 animated movie.

The banner is solid and not floating at all !
Characters' faces are very very very poor.

Then, fluff...
A hammer strikes at Init 1 !
Even Orks Boyz strike before, so certainly a Daemon Prince !
Chaplain = Psycher ? If not, what the heck about the crozius ?!
Since when Space Marines are silent ninjas ?
Chaos SM charge like Orks: run, noise, bad aiming.
The Daemon Prince is "supposed" to charge, yell, and ripp enemies in pieces. No, it looked like a eldar banshee on acid.

Plot.
What plot ?

"Hi guys. Nobody heard from Imperial Fists for a while, they were 100. Take 11 men and go check if everyhting's ok."
<later>
"OMG ! Chaos ! WHAT A SURPRISE !"
"Oh! They killed the captain (é_è) He's dead forever !"
"The Imperial Fist is protecting a book, he said he guarded it for weeks, him and his Chaplain pal without being killed, while we lost 3 men just to find them."

SERIOULSY !

I don't know how GW, which is always superduper protective with their licences, could have authorized the release of this movie...

[–] Ghosthunter123424 13 years ago

The most annoyingly nerdy and pedantic group of fans in the world are angry about something that doesn't portray their favourite thing to 100% accuracy?

STOP THE PRESS

*spoilers*Seriously, how was this GW approved

spoilersSeriously, how was this GW approved