When will video games have that level of visual quality?
I'm thinking 2 or 3 generations away i.e. Playstation 7.
shareWon't be on a console I am telling you. A dedicated HMD vr set, perhaps in a few years, as they've been leaping far and ahead with tech lately, but most of it not for consumers, more the business market.
But that level of world detail with avatars to represent you in real time, will absolutely require a base station vr set up. You will need a grunt of a beast of a maniac of a machine to not get 3fps and jagged animation.
As it is now, even my i9 9900k with rtx 2060 super is able to do everything I want, but that's only within the realm of what is being created. As soon as this level quality hardware is made, my PC rig will smelt itself into a rather fancy gold pizza.
Definitely wont be a standalone vr hmd, nor a console. But then, who knows. once we are out of every crisis known to humanity in 2 years, and we are back on our way to creating the future? I'm optimistic I'll see it in my life time.
which is about 20 more years. Maybe 10 if I'm lucky.
I have an RTX 3080 and it's still not enough to run some of the latest games at native 4k 60fps. And VR games need much higher resolution and consistently high FPS to feel real.
We're not even close, certainly not a few years away even in the business market.
I don't think 4k is a necessity for vr. Immersion is. If you wan't 4k/8k in vr, yeah, we're a long way off.
Vr games do not need 4k. I don't know if you have any headsets, but they are adequate right now, given a good dev. I'm not talking true life vr, but immersive. start there.
For example, the worst graphics in the world that do build if you let them, is google vr. that is an EXPERIENCE.
My rtx 3060 super handles everything vr throws at it. And that's just with a link cable to my quest 2. If I put back on my rift s I'm less jagged, but I just prefer the quest 2.
Yeah, not there yet. but not 20 years away.
High resolution is definitely a necessity for immersion in VR. I have the Rift S and it has a screen door effect. It's still immersive but not really that sharp.
If you're just talking about immersion, that's subjective. If you want to mimic real life then I read somewhere you need 16k resolution per eye and a framerate of at least 144fps. That's at least 15-20 years away. Either way, i'm very excited about what's coming.
Remember we're talking about Ready Player One level of immersion, I mean there's a scene where a character is fooled into believing he's in the real world.
The rift s was a good start, but I have the rift s, quest 1 and quest 2, and the resolution on the quest 2 makes the rift s seem aged.
I started with the lenovo mirage, so I know screen door and god rays from hell, but where we are now with just the quest 2, is leaps and bounds beyond it. These things are, however related to lenses, not resolution.
I'm talking about immersion, not high fidelity resolution. We're seeing developed hmd's with the resolution that surpasses everything, anything we know now, but they are mostly for a specific market, and not consumer. This is at least a start. we dont have to wait 15-20 years at all, im my opinion, within 5 years the tech will have evolved to greatly we can't even know. Hell the quest 3 is already being tauted, and we're still seeing people buying quest 1.
Not only that we are seeing haptic suits being made, not just for hands, but full body immersion. badly, admittedly, right now, but there are suits that let you feel things like air flowing over you. Combine that with the advent of the brain interfaces devices being slowly marketed. Sure, just being able currently to determine what your visual cortex is experiencing, but accurately enough to be a start. With other eeg devices that measure you ability to think a certain way, these are not nominal things.
immersion will be playing minecraft without moving... not seeing and being in a 8k reality. But that will eventuate, I am sure.
I say 10 years we will be looking back at the equivalent of nokia phones, a brick that makes calls and lets you play snake. We are well beyond the 'wait 20 years' paradigm...
But hey, I could be wrong.. facebook has all the power now, they can milk it for a century, really...
Yeah the Rift S is a good starter kit but I need to upgrade soon. I want the Valve Index but it's out of stock everywhere.
I think we're debating different things here, i'm talking about mimicking real life like in Ready Player One, not general immersion. The amount of GPU power that we'd need to render 16k per eye with full ray tracing at 144+fps is immense. I might even be low-balling it with 20 years. I think such technology will be available for the enthusiast market in 15-20 years but it won't be mainstream like in Ready Player One for at least 25-30 years. You need to take into consideration the pace at which mainstream gaming is evolving, it's pretty slow thanks to the 7 year console generation model.
If we could emulate the model of the smartphone market where it was normalized to spend $1000 every few years on new hardware, we'd get there exponentially quicker. Another possibility is accessing powerful hardware through next-generation latency free internet but again we're so far from this. 5G internet is barely taking off and has so many limitations. We'll get there in the end but it will take some time. I agree with your analogy of current VR being like Nokia phones or the PS1. It already feels quite rudimentary when you think of the potential. One thing's for sure, our kids and grandchildren will be living in these VR worlds once they are detailed enough to mimic real life. If all your senses are telling you that you're experiencing something amazing, why would you want to come back to the real world? Reminds me of that scene in The Matrix with that guy eating the steak.
The amount of GPU power that we'd need to render 16k per eye with full ray tracing at 144+fps is immense
do you not think that kind of immense power would be wasted just animating every blade of grass in a video game?
Also dont you think thers a limit to all this?
moore's law has to end somewhere
I don't think we'll reach that limit anytime soon, and when we do quantum computing will keep the progression going. There's always ways to innovate.
And no, I don't think it's a waste. That's the cost of creating a believable virtual reality.
Things only need be animated when observed. If you're in a VR forest, and the wind blows, does the tree behind you move with the wind?
;)
and I don't want animated scenery. I was representation of real time physics. now that is where we're talking problems, in a fully immersive virtual reality.
also the problem with immersion and VR isnt the graphics, its everything else
movement , smell, taste , feedback / touch
the graphics are almost there but we're a million miles from the guy eating the steak in the matrix
For movement there are a few omni-directional treadmills in the making, some are already available.
Feedback/touch will be pretty easy to emulate with gloves and/or a suit with haptic feedback. Smell and taste will be more difficult but i'm sure technology will find a way. The most important senses for VR are movement, touch and of course vision. All 3 are advancing rapidly.
The graphics aren't even close to being there. Have you played VR games? They're barely even PS3 level graphics. Remember that the hardware requirements for VR are higher than regular gaming.
Smart phones are artificially priced, usually based on brand names, but that's something else.
I hope we do get to see the sort of quality in VR as we imagine with things like RP1, but the problem is not so much with technology, but support base, in this instant. It has to start with a reliably attractive base. Without that, no one will develop for it. For a long while people thought VR was just a gimmick, but it's sky rocketed with the advent of the quest/quest 2 - despite the flaws and support failing. And updates that b0rk the janky last update.
Beyond paying thousands for a bleeding edge bit of kit, we are where we are, and in terms of standalone devices, we're pushing it every year. I don't want to pay thousands for each new device every year, year and a half, as I said, the components are not that expensive in terms of the price we pay.
This is why I think the major changes will be in pcvr setups. that have the machine power to do all the work, and are getting better all the time, leaving the headset to be just a portal/monitor into that.
Immersion has to come first to bring the user base. Then build on that. By time we have full quality resolution, low latency and a world in which we can be unlimited within, it will need people. Won't happen without that.
It's like saying I wish we had 3D 8k televisions, in the 50's... except, by time we got them, people were soooo addicted to the goggle box, they didn't even blink at the advances. Just, now we're not talking decades, but mere years. everything is exponential, when it comes to technology.
I think, anyway.
What are you even referring to when you say 'immersion'? Resolution IS immersion. Graphical fidelity IS immersion. Immersion is a combination of many things but visual quality is at the top of that list.
shareImmersion is the belief that you are actually there. Jesus even minecraft vr has that. Not resolution. I don't want 8k hd with no feel for the environment I am in.
I think we have different expectations of what it is to feel truly in an experience. I want to be able to interact, move freely, establish a connection with the world I am in. That is immersion. Not just groovy pictures.
Immersion is the belief that you are actually there. Jesus even minecraft vr has that. Not resolution.
That's just a complete contradiction. To feel like you're actually there it needs to look real and/or tangible which means high resolution and detailed environments. It's like claiming that PS1 games can be as immersive as PS5 games regardless of resolution and graphic fidelity. That would be a lie. VR needs to evolve and resolution will play a big part.
I want to be able to interact, move freely, establish a connection with the world I am in.
So physics. That goes hand in hand with graphical fidelity. CPU power isn't stagnating, it's improving along with GPU power. And physics are already a big component of VR games. Half-Life Alyx is one of the most immersive VR games for this very reason. A combination of cutting edge graphics (for VR) and an interactive physics system.
Try the new HP Reverb G2 which has 4k panels and you'll understand how much of a game changer resolution is. share
I've had some dreams that are not perfect by definition, but the immersion is impeccable. You don't need the quality you're referring to, in order to have full immersion.
Immersion comes from how real the world FEELS, not looks. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to be able to pick up a leaf and see it's intricate details, but to expect it by default, is not what makes immersion.
Yes, they are building new devices with better fidelity, and this will indeed add to it. But until they have devices that actually plug into our visual cortex, we're always going to be limited on true fidelity. I can watch a full 8k 3d video and still not feel immersed. Immersion is how you react to the world around you and how real it feels.
Tell a blind person they cannot fully comprehend the world around them, and you'll see someone who can navigate, interact, fully comprehend the world around them, in pitch darkness.