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High and Dry: A few things that stood out to me?

posted 8 years ago by wanton87
14 replies | jump to latest

I am somewhat skeptical about Bill lighting that fungus with the traditional steel striker? I have always been under the impression that the tinder must be carbonized (Like they did later when they made the charcloth) in order to ignite it using this method? The traditional striker does not throw anywhere near as hot of a spark as do the ferrocerium rods. As far as stones go, they made it sound like it was the rare stone that would work, but in reality, any stone 7 or greater on the Mohs scale of hardness, and with a 90 degree edge will work. This includes any of the easily found quartzite's.

As far as Crayfish go, I have never actually seen one at the higher elevation streams, or even at lower elevations when the water was particularly cold, so they seem to go dormant in cold weather. Yet Bill was turning them up in ice water?

These guys have some of the best fishing luck that I have ever seen. Admittedly, I probably suck as a fisherman, because I have a hell of time catching fish with full tackle under favorable conditions. But I know that bass tend to like warm water, and are typically not as hungry when the water is cold, so they tend to be more dormant. In other words, it doesn't seem likely that Bill would have caught a bass, but more likely a trout or other cold water fish.

I actually do like this show, but I have to wonder just how much of it is completely staged? That's why Survivorman will always be my favorite survival show. I've actually seen Les leave his challenge early because he could not procure food.

I don't doubt that these guys know what they're doing, but some people watching this show might get a false sense of how hard actual wilderness survival is?

[–] Arbuckle_T_Boone 8 years ago

I am somewhat skeptical about Bill lighting that fungus with the traditional steel striker? I have always been under the impression that the tinder must be carbonized (Like they did later when they made the charcloth) in order to ignite it using this method?

I don't think so. I remember Les Stroud using some on an episode of Survivorman and he was amazed by well how it worked.

As far as Crayfish go, I have never actually seen one at the higher elevation streams, or even at lower elevations when the water was particularly cold, so they seem to go dormant in cold weather. Yet Bill was turning them up in ice water?

I don't know. Where I live they always seem to show up when he have heavy rain in warm or cold weather. I see them in my ditch and in the backyard.

I do think Bill was told where to look though. I wonder how long the crew had to look for them?

These guys have some of the best fishing luck that I have ever seen. Admittedly, I probably suck as a fisherman, because I have a hell of time catching fish with full tackle under favorable conditions.

Remember that you don't have the advantage of a crew scouting the area and finding an area with a plentiful supply of fish.

I actually do like this show, but I have to wonder just how much of it is completely staged? That's why Survivorman will always be my favorite survival show. I've actually seen Les leave his challenge early because he could not procure food.

Have to agree. I love that he shows his failures. That's part of survival. Sometimes even when you do everything right you still fail.

[–] wanton87 8 years ago

I was about to edit my post when I saw your comment Arbuckle. I was speaking to my brother, and he informed me that small mouth bass are more active in colder weather than the large mouth bass, so Bill catching the small mouth might be more plausible than I initially thought. As far as crayfish, he also seemed to think that you could turn up rocks as did Bill and find them even in cold water. I'm in the west, and it always seemed to me that when the water turned cold, the Crayfish disappeared? I would think that they would go down deep and bury themselves in the mud?

I didn't know that there was a fungus capable of taking a spark from the traditional flint and steel method? I will have to try it sometime if I ever come across any. Traditionally, charred punky wood was used, then later charcloth, which must be 100% cotton. This is all that I've ever used myself.

[–] Arbuckle_T_Boone 8 years ago

I'm in the west, and it always seemed to me that when the water turned cold, the Crayfish disappeared? I would think that they would go down deep and bury themselves in the mud?

I live in Texas and around here they only seem to do that when it dries out. We just got a few inches of rain the other day and they came to the surface even though the temps were down to near freezing at night. I probably wouldn't have noticed except for the fact that my chickens destroyed part of their grazing area going after them.

I think you're probably right though. It might just be more rare to see them during cold weather but not impossible.

I didn't know that there was a fungus capable of taking a spark from the traditional flint and steel method?

I don't remember which episode but I am certain that Les found and used some and it worked great. He made a point to put the rest of it out and save it to use later in the episode.

[–] wanton87 8 years ago

I live in Texas and around here they only seem to do that when it dries out. We just got a few inches of rain the other day and they came to the surface even though the temps were down to near freezing at night. I probably wouldn't have noticed except for the fact that my chickens destroyed part of their grazing area going after them.

I think you're probably right though. It might just be more rare to see them during cold weather but not impossible.

I'm in CA, and remember fishing for them in a creek at one of the many horse stables that my mother boarded her horses at. They were plentiful when it was warm, but then seemed to disappear when it got cold. But as you and others have pointed out, you can apparently still find them in colder weather.

I don't remember which episode but I am certain that Les found and used some and it worked great.

Oh, I don't doubt what you're saying Arbuckle, it was just new to me that's all. The sparks from the high carbon steel striker are faint and weak compared to those from the ferrocerium rods, so they require a more specialized tinder. I often make fires using my high carbon steel striker, and to me it's kind of a fun way to do it. I have all kinds of the white and rose quartz on my property that works real well for this purpose.

[–] rickathedj 8 years ago

I find the fishing fairly believable. They tie off the line and walk away, sometimes for hours; long after any normal human being would have packed it in. Back when I lived on a small estuary on the inter coastal waterway in FL, I could throw a line in the water and always catch something within an hour, and that was in the middle of the day. That time was as short as 5 minutes in the morning or late afternoon.

How much is staged? As has already been said, the locations are well scouted. They also admit some things are done for demonstration purposes. I think the only people who might get a false sense of actual survival are those whose entire outdoor experience has been in city parks.

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[–] wanton87 8 years ago

I think the only people who might get a false sense of actual survival are those whose entire outdoor experience has been in city parks.

Could be rickathedj. Though if I recall correctly, someone here once pointed out that the reason Les Stroud decided on the episodes in which he took out a fan, was because he had heard some reports that some of them were getting a false sense of security after watching his show. This surprises me a little, because out of all of the survival shows, his would be the one that illustrates raw, gritty, survival at its worst. The others are all more heavily staged.

[–] rickathedj 8 years ago

One thing that struck me about that episode. It seemed like the fan never watched the show. He had no idea how to use the tools he was given. Even when he saw Les' camp after the first night, he still under-built his bedding. That's not the problem of the show, that's a problem of the fan who didn't pay attention.

The saga of getting my first novel on Kindle
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[–] Arbuckle_T_Boone 8 years ago

Something else I noticed in the last episode.

Why does Bill want to throw the food directly on the coals?

He did this in an earlier episode as well and Grady obviously wasn't a fan. I know Grady said something about Bill wanting to go caveman style but it only makes the meat ashy and gross so why do it?

I know survival is not about pleasure but there has to be a benefit from enjoying the food. I can't believe that he does this on his own time. This seems like something he does for shock value on the show in some sort of attempt to make himself seem more primitive since he's supposed to be the "primitive survival skills" expert.

I just don't see the need for it. It only take a few minutes to skewer the meat.

[–] wanton87 8 years ago

I noticed this Arbuckle, but didn't really pay much attention to it until you pointed it out. My natural inclination would be to place my food on a spit, and apply even heat. I suppose certain food items lend themselves well to cooking on coals, like tubers. But even then, most of the survivalists that I've seen either wrap them in leaves or pack them in mud, and cook them that way, as opposed to placing them directly on the coals.

[–] Arbuckle_T_Boone 8 years ago

I think there's something to be said in enjoying your food even in a survival situation. I remember an episode of Survivorman where Les caught a fish and said that he could get the most nutrition from eating it raw but opted to cook it instead.

He cited the mental boost and warm meal from eating cooked fish as a bigger advantage to him than a few extra calories.

I always put extra condiments(salt, pepper, mustard, ketchup, relish, salsa) that I accumulate in my pack for this reason. I figure if I ever end up in a survival situation I might as well enjoy my food. I have seen miniature spice wheels at my local outdoor store but I haven't felt the need to buy one.

[–] wanton87 8 years ago

I think there's something to be said in enjoying your food even in a survival situation.

I have a story to share Arbuckle. Many years ago (probably in the 1960's) my late father was out with a hunting partner. They stayed out too late and didn't make it back to camp before dark, and were forced to spend the night in the woods. They did however manage to shoot a wild pigeon, and another game animal that I forgot? It just so happened that one of them had some of the little condiment packages of salt and pepper. They salted it up, and enjoyed it over an open campfire. I remember my father describing that meal in a way that led me to believe that it was one of the best meals that he had ever had.

I always put extra condiments(salt, pepper, mustard, ketchup, relish, salsa) that I accumulate in my pack for this reason.

So do I. Somewhere I have a compact dual salt/pepper shaker that you turn over for salt or pepper. I also carry a container of the Molly McButter with me, as I always have potatoes with me when I'm camping, and it's more convenient than trying to carry butter.

[–] rmontro 8 years ago

I was wondering if there were more crayfish around after Bill had used some of them for bait. That way he could have pacified Grady somewhat, who (as he predicted) wanted to eat the crayfish. It might have been worth his while to turn over some more rocks and find a few more.

As for how much is real, I don't really trust anything I see on TV. As much as all of it could be set up and staged for "demonstration purposes". Doesn't really matter to me though, and doesn't interfere with my enjoyment of the show.

[–] Purk 8 years ago

Originally Posted by rmontro:
I was wondering if there were more crayfish around after Bill had used some of them for bait. That way he could have pacified Grady somewhat, who (as he predicted) wanted to eat the crayfish. It might have been worth his while to turn over some more rocks and find a few more.

I also wondered if there was more crayfish available. I also wondered if Grady was so concerned why didn't he get off his butt and go back with Bill to look. Seems to me if you are that concerned, you'd make an effort to go back.

In survival there is no such thing as delineated tasks. Bill gets the food, Grady makes the shelter, the next time the roles are reversed. He did two tasks, so to be fair I should only have to do two tasks. If you are standing next to a food source you wouldn't call your partner over and tell him to grab the food because it's his turn. That might make for easier filming of a reality TV show, but it's not reality.

[–] Arbuckle_T_Boone 8 years ago

I also wondered if there was more crayfish available. I also wondered if Grady was so concerned why didn't he get off his butt and go back with Bill to look. Seems to me if you are that concerned, you'd make an effort to go back.

Of course there was. The show glossed over it so they could have their "opposing strategies" argument.

In survival there is no such thing as delineated tasks. Bill gets the food, Grady makes the shelter, the next time the roles are reversed. He did two tasks, so to be fair I should only have to do two tasks. If you are standing next to a food source you wouldn't call your partner over and tell him to grab the food because it's his turn. That might make for easier filming of a reality TV show, but it's not reality.

In this case it made sense to me. It was going to be a cold night and they were running out of daylight. At least one of them needed to be gathering firewood until the other finished getting food. Then both of them should have spent the rest of the time gathering firewood until it gets dark.

I know this wasn't shown or played up the way it needed to be. With basically no shelter firewood and food/water were the most important tasks. I think an argument could also be made that they were starting their fires too early and using up their wood supply before they really needed it. Especially considering they were only gathering an armload which would last and hour or two at best.