Separation at camp

Yes,it really bothered me that we never find out what happened to that guard. The way the French joined the Nazis so readily. The government as well as the citizins. It was heartwarming when the French women threw food over the fence for the children.The book explains more about the guard but not what eventually happens to him. This movie scared me. It makes you wonder what would I do in that situation. I'd like to think I would do the right thing.But, you don't know until you find yourself in that situation. And if you think something like this could never happen here,think again.

don't forget the French official on the train who asked for identity papers, and when asked about the young "boy", the farmer who took her in said, "it was at the bottom of the envelope". The envelope contained some francs, which the official left in the envelope and returned to the farmer. There were some incredibly brave French people - none more so than the people of the Resistance - but we forget and say the French simply rolled over. look what we did to the Japanese Americans after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. They didn't go to concentration camps but still they were debased and despised and their property was forfeited.

"there is a French movie entitled Au Revoir les Enfants."

Yes, that is a great film.

It's impossible to deny the importance of the French Resistance during WWII.












Drive: 9.5/10
The Debt: 9/10
127 Hours: 8.5/10
Hesher: 8/10

Buff,I am sorry that you misunderstood my intent.I was not trying to say that the French people as a whole commited this atrocity.I agree with you wholeheartedly that the guard risked his life to save Sarah.And I do know many,many people risked their lives also to hide jews.My commentary goes to the majority who out of fear performed atrocious acts. Please do not think that just because I am an American I do not understand history of the holocaust.I understand more than you know.I will read your links.And also watch Au revoir les Enfants. I have posted on another discussion about the guard and about the women who threw food over the fence for the children. My comments were more an analysis of people( not just the French) who act in very brutal ways out of fear.My fathers family was from Poland.Our family lost many members in the war.And when I was a child I heard many "polack"jokes. I was called a coward and stupid. I didn't understand why.But as I got older I did quite a lot of research and found that a lot of Polish people fought back against the Nazis.I would also like to add that the French government perpetrated the killing of their own people out of fear.

And it bothers me when people classify all Americans as uninformed, just as with other nationalities.

In WWII there were the Vichy French who collaborated with the Nazi and were led by Petain. They did the things shown in this film. Then there were the Free French, led by DeGaulle, who formed the resistance and worked with the allies and risked their lives to help.

Many Nazi soldiers were forced into service. Categorizing all of them as inhumane is just as uneducated as classifying all the French as inhumane. I'm sure there were plenty of instances of Nazi's defying orders to help their intended victims.

I would suggest reading "Summer of My German Soldier." It's about Nazi POW's (one of them mostly) in America. They were just young men, kids even, whose lives were also destroyed. Or watch "All Quiet on the Western Front." Its about German soldiers in WWI, what convinced them to fight and what they endured.

They have done many studies on this. When given orders by someone in authority, the majority of us would obey, regardless of race or nationality. We all possess the capability of great compassion and also the ability to strip all sense of humanity from ourselves.

Insist on yourself. Never imitate.

Of course there were people who acted with both heroism and humanity in France during the occupation-there were similarly people behaving with heroism in every country the Nazis occupied, including Germany. The Danes and Norweigans in particular saved huge numbers of Jews, and both countries were awarded a "righteousness award" by the Israeli state in recognition of this.

However, brave as so many French people were, there is no getting away from the fact that France wasn't conquered, it signed a truce. This is why, whereas most governments of countries over run by the Nazis were in exile in London, the French Government was still in power in France. And to curry favor with their new alies they rounded up the Jews of their own volition, seperating the children from their parents. The scenes were so dreadful that the Nazis decided that in future it would be easier to keep mothers and children together.

Even today a lot of Jews feel that anti semitism is rife in France, and the far right groups poll very well in election.

In both Germany itself and in the occupied countries there were people ranging from fully committed Nazis to fully committed opponents to all sorts of people in-between or who had a complex relationship with both sides (Oskar Schindler was a member of the Nazi party, there are known instances of Nazis looking the other way when it came to hiding Jewish children, full-blown double agents, people who switched sides (even people who were decorated by Vichy and joined the Resistance), etc). Of those who fully collaborated with the Nazis, some were true believers, some may well have done it out of fear, but many no doubt were in it for the money, power or career advancement (genocide provides all sorts of opportunities for enrichment). However, all too often, particularly when it comes to occupied countries, matters have been portrayed as a handful of collaborators and the German occupiers on one side and everyone else in the Resistance. Yet Vichy was not sustained by Petain alone, or Petain and Laval alone, but by numerous police, soldiers, civil servants, judges, etc, and many of these people were left alone and even kept their positions after the war (as happened in many of the occupied countries and in Germany itself) - google "Maurice Papon" for one of the more egregious examples and for one of the least-publicized atrocities in postwar Europe. In that sense, I think the film, like Polanski's The Pianist did a good job of portraying that complexity, emphasizing that it was the French police and the (ostensible) French State that rounded up the Jews, but also showing a number of heroic acts by French individuals, instead of reducing the historical reality to the caricatures of "the French were all collaborators" or "the French were all in the Resistance, save for Petain and Laval." Similar caricatures could be brought up for most of the countries involved, though there are nuances - few emulated the Danes in helping nearly all the Jews escape, for example.

Sadly,it will never go away until the end of time.Fear is a very powerful motivator.Personally,I fear that this country is going down a path that will lead to a very real crisis that we may never recover.

Thank you for sharing that, aprizant.
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