MovieChat Forums > The Perks of Being a Wallflower (2012) Discussion > Was the kicking ass cafeteria scene diff...

Was the kicking ass cafeteria scene different in the book?

posted 10 years ago by thingading
21 replies | jump to latest

I really enjoyed this film a lot. The only scene that is still hard for me to accept was when Charlie, a skinny freshman, suddenly beats the hell out of three big senior football players.

I believe I've read some posts regarding the book talks a bit about his older brother teaching him how to fight. Even if that is the case, the scene was extremely unbelievable and I wish they would have thought up a more realistic way for Charlie to be "accepted back into the group."

Other than this scene, I found Charlie's character to be quite believable regarding how hard it is to fit in and find friends at school. Although he does find some good friends, I think the film does a solid job of giving us the sense of how easily things could have gone the other way, and he might have not connected with anyone.

But I thought the 14 year old beating the crap out of three athletic and aggressive seniors at the same time who are much bigger and stronger simply was not realistic, regardless of how "crazy" Charlie might get when he snapped.

For those who have read the book, I was just wondering if this scene actually occurred exactly like it did in the film, or if it was portrayed in a different, or at least more realistic way?

[–] americaneskimodog 10 years ago

I hate to be the one to break it to you that it does happen in the same way, blackout and all. But hear me out on the factors that led me to think this scene was believable:

- Like you said, the book mentions that his older brother taught him how to fight.
- Charlie probably gained an adrenaline rush from watching the people he cared about (including Sam) be physically hurt.
- The very fact that NOBODY expected him to go in like that probably caught the other guys off-guard, enough for Charlie to at least land a hit on each one of them.
- Again, shock. Once Charlie got involved, the energy of everyone, including the crowd, dropped immediately.

[–] adresher-1 9 years ago

I agree, I thought the scene was believable.

All your points are valid, especially about the adrenaline rush. When someone flips out and gets that adrenaline rush look out. In my high school I saw a small kid who got bullied a lot lose it and took down a much bigger kid. Nobody saw it coming and it caught everyone off guard. The teachers did not know what to say or do, so they basically let them both off with a warning.

[–] hrstar24 10 years ago

Charlie was held back a year due to his depression, so he wasn't just some skinny freshmen, he was like 16. Also his brother is a Division 1 College Football player, so I am assuming Charlie got some of his older brothers strength and size.

[–] thingading 10 years ago

Yes, he was a skinny kid, especially compared to the three large and mean football players. Also, just because he was held back in school does not mean he was 16. Some graduate high school when they are 17, which means they are 14 when they are freshman. Therefore, Charlie could have been 15. We don't know. Also, who's to say some or all the seniors he fought hadn't been held back and therefore were 18-19? Regardless, the difference in size and strength between just your average freshman male vs. your average senior male is usually prodigious.

Having a sibling does not guarantee anything. Just because one is smart does not mean the other will be. Same with strength. Same with creativity. Same with anything. If Charlie was that strong, he probably would have, like his brother, been in sports. Especially since he was trying so hard to find a way to meet people and make friends and this would have provided the easiest avenue via being on a wrestling, football, etc. team.

The seniors also had plenty of adrenaline, as they were right in the middle of a fight and wanting to hurt someone(s).

Again, I liked this film, but that scene was a serious stretch.

[–] hrstar24 10 years ago

Charlie's birthday was right before Christmas, and it clearly shows 16 candles on his birthday cake. And size/strength is tied to genetics a whole lot more than something like creativity, it isn't always true but siblings are usually about the same size. If your brother is 7' tall, chances are you are pretty tall yourself.

Also, in the book it is mentioned Charlie was very good at sports, but he had to quit because it made it hard for him to control his rage and aggression outside of sports. It also says that Charlie's brother is a really good fighter, and he taught Charlie how to fight. Even Charlie in the movie isn't small compared to the seniors, he acts timid and shy, which might be why you think he is just some tiny skinny kid. Fighting technique is extremely important in fights, I have a couple friends who trained in boxing, and I have seen them knock out people way bigger than them in a single punch. In fact, after one particular incident, they almost charged my 140 lb friend with assault with a deadly weapon after he knocked out a bigger kid on the basketball court because his dad taught him how to box. Just learning the basics on how to effectively throw a punch will make you be able to hit significantly harder.

At the beginning of the book Charlie whoops the s*** out of another bully also. Taking on 3 football players is a bit of a stretch, but that is why the entire crowd was completely speechless after it was over.

[–] thingading 10 years ago

You think a 16 yr old taking on and beating up 3 senior football players at the same time is a "bit of a stretch"?

Yeah, I would say so. Like you, I've seen a smaller guy whoop a bigger dude's ass. But in my entire life I've never seen a single guy beat the hell out of three dudes (especially who were all bigger than him) all at the same time. Of course, there is always that drunk guy at the end of the bar claiming he did or could have back when he was a younger.

But we all know that guy is a liar and a loser.

[–] Humanity_Youve_Failed 10 years ago

You must have not been around people who have a lot of built up anger then.

Have you ever seen someone who is for example like Charlie, who has so much emotion built up in them that YOU can tell there's something off in them that they won't get off their chest, but they can't tell themselves?

I have.
In fact, there was a guy in particular I knew that I was friends with. He was always laughing and overall a very cool guy. I wouldn't have guessed he was so miserable but something always seemed off, just a vibe. He got into a particular fight that kind of reminds me of this scene, and it was also with a few football players.
He broke 2 of their noses, and turned them into a blood bath basically all alone.

He basically flipped a switch.
It's like seeing a funny person laughing then their face drops and they begin like flipping cars and *beep*

He ended up committing suicide, and i really didn't know what he was dealing with until it all came out after the fact.

So yeah, the scene may seem far fetched but it does happen.

Charlie was for sure suicidal even if it doesn't explicitly say he was in the book. When you're that miserable inside and you finally let *beep* out, sometimes you can do things you would not expect.

[–] thingading 10 years ago

Yes, I agree - the scene seemed far fetched.

[–] vic_cc-288-122638 7 years ago

your friend seems pretty similar to me.
what was he dealing with ?

[–] pete-293 10 years ago

how good of fighters would the jock have been. typically they would throw punches. but can they block, counter. can they recognize and react to a right cross, a left lab, an uppercut, a haymaker. I doubt it. they would be used to brute strength. Charlie had been trained to fight by his brother. he would know how to do these things. so the odds are not so one sided as you suppose.

Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain (Isaac Asimov)

[–] rdpepper210 10 years ago

A good kick or punch in the nuts would slow most males down for a time also

[–] JJdaPK 9 years ago

I thought he only hit one of the football players? I assumed the others just froze from the shock of it.

[–] dailykpop 9 years ago

Lol, in the book, didnt he fight 5 guys instead of 3?

[–] alaini4 9 years ago

I had to watch the scene again
the actor the director and the editing show without a doubt that he knows how to fight and he knows he could take them down without the need to show the fight
the way he walks his eyes are locked on his target
and he has the right body position to swing a serious jab on the head
the guy in green hitting Patrick was probably the first target beeing attacked from the back that why we see him holding his head
the second guy we see on the floor is holding his nose attacked from the face while holding Patrick as soon as the first guy was down
and you don't end up with a hand bruised like his without hitting something hard like a skull

[–] thingading 9 years ago

The kid beating up Patrick also knows how to fight. He doesn't hesitate and immediately strikes Patricks' face and then delivers a solid body punch with the opposite hand. After Sam tries unsuccessfully to break it up, he then lands another tremendous body shot to Patrick. Followed again by another great head, then body combo.

I'm sure his buddies knew how to fight, too.

You also say "and he (Charlie) has the right body position to swing a serious jab on the head." He's not even throwing a jab. That is a strike with one's lead hand. He is getting set to throw a "2" or a cross - not at all a jab, before the camera cuts out.

A freshman having "his eyes locked on his target" does not equal beating three senior dudes up.

[–] GreyHunter 9 years ago

He didn't kick their asses, though. Even over and above what the book says, in the movie, Charlie essentially sucker-punches all three before they realized what was happening, and he did it hard (notice the bruising of his knuckles?) After tossing Sam away, they weren't expecting anyone to come to Patrick's defense, certainly not another male. The only male we see regularly hanging out with Patrick is Bob, who doesn't attend the school (Patrick notes that he attends culinary school) and the jocks likely figured they were completely safe...until this enraged kid comes out of nowhere and punches each of them in the face. Once apiece. If there was anything unrealistic about the scene, it was the fact that none of them immediately jumped back up to beat the hell out of Charlie, but the argument could be made that they were shocked as hell (and possibly that they knew who Charlie's brother was and were wary of going after him.) If Charlie had gotten into a knock-down brawl with the three and won, yeah, that would be unrealistic. But he didn't. He just walked up to them and punched each one in turn before they could react.

[–] higesorihanzo 9 years ago

Since we're not really sure what happened it's hard to say. There is no way Charlie could beat down all three guys in a full on fight. However, if he just busted one of their noses unexpectedly in a fit of rage, it's possible the others would back off. A lack of fear will definitely make bigger stronger guys hesitate to attack. However, given the fact that they were already beating someone up and in fight mode, it's very unrealistic for them not to have kicked the isht out of him.

From the way his hand looked, it seems like he threw more than one punch though. That was also pretty unrealistic. His hand wouldn't look like that immediately after the fight. It takes awhile for bruises like that to show.

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] rc-108 8 years ago

maybe a little over the top...but possible..
the scene reminded me of the movie 3 O'clock High

[–] thingading 7 years ago

Isn't that the film where there is a one on one altercation (not 1 freshen against 3 seniors) and the underdog wins by using the bully's brass knuckles?

[–] rc-108 7 years ago

that is the one...
it was hilarious...