Confused about the ending....*spoilers* - Scalene (2011) Discussion

[–] Virgil_Hawkins 12 years ago

Here's how I see it:
In the beginning, Paige is the victim. Margo, Jakob's mother arrives at her house to kill her over the belief that she lied about being raped.

Near the end, however, we learn Paige faked her rape to get Jakob taken away from his mother over the belief that Margo was hurting Jakob.

Who dies is based on our interpretation of who the victim is.

We are eagles of one nest, The nest is in our soul

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[–] budarc 12 years ago

I'm surprised there hasn't been more debate on the ending. I buy the whole "different points of view" thing, however, in both outcomes, the film then cuts to Janice sitting in her car, contemplating something. Rewatching the beginning, I'm not sure whether that scene is supposed to take place directly before the supposed murder of Paige or directly afterward (it then goes into the opening credits, so I figure that first part is meant to be entirely chronological). But at the end of the movie, as Paige successfully dials the police and Janice remains on the ground, the camera closes in on her eye, which then makes me think maybe the whole thing was just a fantasy taking place in her mind (entirely from Janice's point of view). The film ends with her, once again, in her car, crying. I have yet to find a satisfying explanation for this final image, which is a shame, because I think it could definitely lend some credence to the entire picture.

I am a fan, by the way, and if Mr. Parker is reading this, I wouldn't pass up a clarification on this (in the form of PM or otherwise).

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[–] SqualleX 11 years ago

Here's my take on the beginning (ending)...

As I watched for the first time, I thought it was really happening. Then as it jumped to Janice sitting in her car thinking, it made me think that it was all in her head, or how she wanted it to happen.

So as the opening credits start, I noticed the colors of the backgrounds, red, blue and green. Then it showed the title 3 times, once backward, once mixed up, and once forward. About a third of the way through the movie, I realized that there was probably a color and a title for each. Janice's POV went backwards, Paige's went forward and Jakob's seemed to jump around. I suppose you could get into the meanings of the colors too.

So at the end, it started to go how Janice imagined it. But it didn't end her way. But what got me really confused is the very ending when it went back (again) to Janice sitting in her car.

Maybe she was re-thinking it and thought "What if it turns out like this instead?"

I was really kinda floored when I realized what Paige was doing to help get Jakob taken out of Janice's care. People criticize the Paige character for doing it, but what you need to remember is, she's never had a job like this before. It's a new situation for her. She's only learned in school what to do. So now that it's happening, she needed to make a decision. I realize it's a movie. But many many people in real life make far more stupid decisions!

I think Paige really did love Jakob. She was really broken up over doing what she did, knowing that she would never get to see him again. She couldn't just walk in and visit him.

And oh, by the way, the Janice character really creeped me out most of the time. Just her demeanor throughout the entire movie.

So my 2 cents... I thought it was brilliant! It ended up explaining alot (which I like in a movie) but it also had enough of that "huh?" to it to keep you thinking about it. Very well done, Mr. Parker! If we ever meet, remind me to buy you a beer! lol

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[–] zparker-3 11 years ago

Thanks for your interpretation. Really enjoyed reading it.

Thank you for checking out the film! Glad to hear you enjoyed it.

-ZP

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[–] muczen 12 years ago

IMHO, neither the mom nor the girl die. At the very end when we see the girl on the phone and the camera pulls back it is when the mom's point of view begins. Meaning the mom visualized that she kills the girl with the umbrella. In actuallity she is on the floor with some sort of brain trauma. Then the film goes into the mom's eye and the scene starts over in the mom's car right before she comes to the girl's home. Essentially coming full circle.

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[–] t_andrew 12 years ago

I had a thought that maybe the second half of the movie, the babysitter's POV, was actually happening in the Mom's head as she was sitting in the car. Perhaps she was imagining what went down as a way of rationalizing what she was about to do (killing the babysitter). Her vision painted her son as innocent. I could be wrong, I saw the movie last night and it popped into my head this morning. I loved the movie, surprisingly great

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[–] zparker-3 12 years ago

I would never reveal what my view is of the film, that would take the fun and mystery out of it. But I will say that there is distinct chain of events that happens throughout, and that the ending is not consciously ambiguous. I do love reading these debates and interpretations, though.

Thank you all for checking out the film!

-ZP

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[–] crisi 12 years ago

How I love good movies that leave me thoroughly confused. And I love reading what others think. But I want to remain confused. Thank you Zack, for a terrific film and for not explaining.

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[–] hubcap18 12 years ago

My thinking is that Janice never went up to the door. It didn't really happen; it's just what she wanted to do or what could have happened. It's a fantasy sequence, just like in True Lies, Analyze This, High Fidelity, The Chase...the list goes on and on. She drove to Paige's house, experienced that fantasy, and drove away.

______

"As far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster.

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[–] MovieMinx67 11 years ago

Hey, ZP, congratulations on such a wonderful film. I've watched it about three times now. I see something new in it every time! I need to go back and see your other films, but "Scalene" has really touched my heart. As a 45-year-old woman who lived through a care-giver role (I cared for my father until he passed), I can identify with both the women, and I think I can see through to the boy's true self. What a lovely, powerful, and succinct piece you have created. Every artist's dream.

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[–] zparker-3 11 years ago

Thank you so much. Watching a film more than once is really the ultimate compliment for a filmmaker. Really glad to hear you enjoyed it.

-ZP

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[–] iceanvil 11 years ago

Thank you so much, Zack. I just checked this movie out on Hulu Plus with an open mind based entirely on the box art and short description. I don't want to get too personal, but I have severe OCD which makes it difficult for me to keep my attention on one thing. But Scalene was the first movie I've been able to sit and watch in one sitting in months.

I don't want you to tell me if I'm right or wrong, of course, because guessing is most of the fun, but this is how I took the film: Page never hung up on social services. She did call for help and Adult Protective Services did take him away. The mother did come and attack her with a gun, but when she fell down the stairs, she receives the same kind of traumatic brain damage Jakob had. The entire movie is her trying to flash back and find a way to explain why her son was taken away that wasn't her fault, by blaming Page for setting him up.

Once again, great movie and I hope more people find it on Hulu or Amazon Plus and give it the attention it deserves.

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[–] zparker-3 11 years ago

Thank you very much! Very glad to hear that you enjoyed it.

PLEASE tell your friends. I'm told it is now on Netflix Streaming as well.

-ZP

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] zparker-3 11 years ago

Actually, there is a very definitive ending. You have to figure out the chronology of the story (the key of which is in Jakob's story). The problem with most independent films trying something risky or new is that most audiences don't trust the filmmakers. When they find something confusing, they immediately assume it is incorrect. Instead of saying "this is wrong," you should be asking "why is it this way?" Nevertheless, thanks for checking out the film and it having enough of an affect on you to post something here.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] zparker-3 11 years ago

I sincerely appreciate your curiosity, but I don't feel it is my job to convince people that the film is good or bad. It is just what you decide. In fact, subjective perception is exactly what the film is about. I wrote this after receiving incredibly polarized responses to my previous two films. All I can say is that the ending is not "open-ended." I did not set out to make a film that is ambiguous for ambiguity's sake. The key is in the middle. Stanley Kubrick once said "If you tell people what something means, it doesn't mean anything anymore." And I agree, just takes the fun out of it. Thanks again!

-ZP

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] ElectricKoolaidAcid 11 years ago

I wholeheartedly agree with GaryLee; this somewhat new, cheap "ambiguous ending" tactic has been making its mark in Indies for awhile now, and all I can conclude is that this new generation of filmmakers are nothing but lazy and unoriginal... perhaps even a little too pretentious for their own good (especially considering how limited their talent actually is). Brit Marking is another one of late that comes to mind.

I absolutely hate when I watch a film completely through just to find out I wasted another 1.5 hours of my life. Every story must have an end. Proof?? ALL CLASSIC LITERATURE.

Just sayin'...

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[–] witeowlK 11 years ago

I'll say that they don't all have to have an end, but they have to have enough clues that one can be secure in an inference of an end or at least a thematic resolution. For example: "The Monkey's Paw." My students are often frustrated that they're never sure that a zombie (essentially) was ever there and knocking on the door, but there's enough there to make them secure in their decision, and the primary theme of the story is clear in any case.

Or, there are often movies that are intentionally vague in order to be thought-provoking and open for discussion, such as The Life of Pi. But I don't think that Scalene can quite qualify for that, and whether someone rises to strike a final blow isn't really the type of thing that warrants a discussion on perception.

I went ahead and re-watched the film, looking for the alluded-to "key" somewhere in the middle of the film. Instead, I found more things that raised questions for me (such as the brief scene of someone being wheeled into Jakob's room, but the clothing eliminates that as the ultimate resolution) and the additional detail that Paige called the police before Jakob's mom knocked. Was she going to call and confess?

I will say that I enjoyed the little touch of the puzzle (a scalene triangle, no less) being solved in Jakob's view while the doctor is still asking Jakob to at least try to solve it.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] marbleann 11 years ago

ElectricKoolAid I agree 100%. I am sick and of these film makers turning movies into Madame Coco's Class on Mind reading 101. I as a viewer either want to be entertained or educated. I do not want to have to become a mind reader. I think it is also lazy or the film maker is to trying show how clever they are.

Please just make a movie with a ending. If you want to be clever make a remake of some zero rated Sci-fi movie from the 50's that when the end comes you get a Question Mark instead of The End. Is the monster dead or are we going to get a sequel. They are much more fun and entertaining. And I liked this movie until the Madame Coco ending.

And BTW I think the ending is about the mother going to that idiots house and fantasizing killing her but figuring out that she might end up dead or hurt and no one will be there to help her son. So she thinks it out, like most normal people do who are thinking about doing something impetuous, deep six's the idea and goes on her merry but slightly mad way back home. The End.

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[–] BigBabyDirtFace 11 years ago

Watching a film more than once is really the ultimate compliment for a filmmaker

Not sure I'd agree with this 100%. Re-watching a film because you enjoyed it so much is one thing, but having to view a film multiple times in order to figure out what the intended message was supposed to be shouldn't be taken as a compliment. At this point, I don't care enough which possible ending is the right one to bother watching again. I think in your attempt to add mystery as to who was the "bad guy", you made all the characters equally unlikeable with little or no redeeming qualities. Who wants to watch a bunch of characters you don't like more than once?

But for the record, since this is "the ending" thread, my interpretation is that Paige's view was the correct one. The shooting scene at the beginning had small differences from the shooting scene at the end, like you'd get when two people tell the same story of an event...there will be small details that are different. Jakob's view showed that he was still there inside his head but re-wrote events in his head to suit him, such as completing the triangle puzzle and remembering the "rape" as Paige making love to him. The fall down the stairs gave the mom a similar brain injury, making her re-write the ending to her liking- she beat Paige to death and she wins. The movie opens and closes on her face, staring blankly, pretty much like Jakob. Right or wrong, I'm sticking with that. Is it brilliant? Not particularly. The odds of two members of the same family getting the same brain injury, years apart, by different means, and ending up in the same hospital room could only happen in a script. Did it get me here thinking and discussing? Yeah, I guess it did, and if that is what Zack Parker set out to accomplish, kudos, but there other ways to spark discussion...with people who want discussion. I mostly watch movies to be entertained.

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[–] genxkid1968 11 years ago

I loved this movie! I perceived a clear ending. I see everything that rolled before the opening credits as reality, Janice killed Paige then drove off. Janice was not wearing her supermarket vest. After the opening credits, you see Janice looking incredibly despondent, making murder or even murder/suicide beievable. Also, Paige keeps apologizing to Janice before the gun is emptied. This was the first time I have ever seen a realistic portrayal of someone's first experience with a gun. She was laughing maniacally, after what I'm sure would have been a psychotic break. I thought it was interesting that Jakob perceived his sexual abuse as love making, when he would have never had that experience ... So how did he construct that in his mind? This movie reminds of The Safety of Objects, another movie that touched me deeply and made me want to watch it again and again to squeeze every delicious drop from it.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] genxkid1968 11 years ago

Nope, I am a girl who lives in Alabama, never heard of Zack before watching this on Netflix this week. I'm just a 45 year old who likes movies. I don't know anyone in the business. Ive watched Scalene three times in the past three days. Where I get confused is when we are in jakob's perspective. He sees hs father, his doctor, his mother, and Paige from the vantage of his hospital bed. Also, he was in an institution where he had colored lots of pictures indicating that he had been there a long time. The third time, I watched it with subtitles on, just in case that would help clear up some of my confusion. Also, I can't really follow The pattern of time passage. I also don't understand why Jakob wouldn't communicate, when he was clearly able to make a joke with his eyes when Janice first interviewed Paige at their home. He did that side to side thing with his eyes, showing us he totally knew what was going on around him. I just love this movie, I guess because it's a fresh story and the protagonist and antagonist change, depending on the perspective. I ended Up kind of hating Paige, because it's a sorry person who would set up a mentally deficient person as a rapist, just because she was too chicken to make that phone call.

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] genxkid1968 11 years ago

Thanks! I will check out The Hidden Face.

If you haven't seen The Safety of Objects, I recommend that.

Last night, I watched a Korean film called Mother because someone on this board said the story was similar to Scalene. Not even close, but I did enjoy the movie. A slow man-child gets blamed for the murder of a girl and Mom sets out to crack the case. One of the things that stood out to me was how cruel everyone is to the the boy. I could contrast that with Scalene, in that I felt Jakob was treated well.

If you haven't tried Asian horror, I recommend "Audition.". I'll let you know if I think of anything else!

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] zparker-3 11 years ago

Thank you for checking out the film. I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it. And if you are in "my camp," I'm happy to have you. :)

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[–] genxkid1968 11 years ago

Zack, I am an imdb noobie but I was captured by Scalene and actually registered in order to say so. I read you were coming out with a new movie and I will wait excitedly for it. You've earned a true fan.

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[–] ValleyMermaid 11 years ago

Outstanding piece of film work! I loved it! Loved that it wasn't spelled out! It was a believable story with believable characters. GREAT WORK!!! Looking forward to more from this director and writer!!!

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[–] zparker-3 11 years ago

Thanks so much. Very glad you enjoyed it!

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[–] 11 years ago

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