MovieChat Forums > How to Train Your Dragon 2 (2014) Discussion > Aren't you mad at the fact that...

Aren't you mad at the fact that...

posted 9 years ago by mvillasosa
26 replies | jump to latest

Big Hero 6 won to HTTYD 2?
I myself was just dissappointed at that...
Big Hero 6, was good! It had good ideas of losing someone close to you and the scenes with Hiro and Baymax are the best parts of the movie; but when it focuses on catching the villian, and the team (with the comic relief, the girly nerd, you know steriotypes), it kinda bores me (though I'll give them that with the steryotypes it's kinda common on Marvel comics), not to mention the villian was too predictable. On the first viewing, I thought it was just as good as Frozen, but on the second viewing, it lost its touch. I like the approach BH6 has, and while it seemed to take its twists seriously, surprisingly mostly it's predictable. But, it's Disney! Frozen was a hit last year so BH6 wins!
So yeah, I was upset that it won.

When I saw HTTYD 2 on theaters, everything happened so fast that I didn't know what to think of it. I didn't cry at the mature parts, but I remembered that it was just as good as the first movie. I looked forward to seeing it again online and I could finally get into the characters, the events, and the villian, I cried that time, and liked it A LOT better! I think the characters are way deeper, more identifiable, the story was better compared to its predeccesor and the drama worked really well. The only problems I have with this movie are that:
1. The movie was 1 hr. 30 min. I wish there was more lenght to the movie.
2. The villian had a motivation that we've seen before. What saves him is the atmosphere in the scenes her appears in, the voice acting, and his actions.

Besides, I'm glad that animation opens it up for more stories, and not just focus on family-friendly movies. Usually people say that animated films are for kids-only. In no way you know Felidae, The Secret of NIMH, gore anime (like Another Corpse, etc) or Fritz the Cat. HTTYD 2 is not on the adult level as Felidae or such, it takes its audience seriously like The Secret of NIMH, and I admire it for that. Not saying that BH6 should be mature, but I just think it's personal preference.

[–] OhNooos 9 years ago

I was disappointed, but only because I was pulling for HTTYD2 and think it is slightly better. BH6 was very good, however, and I'm not unhappy that it won.

BH6 did have a couple of darker, more mature elements to it. The brother died, the good-guy mentor was bad, and the little brother was mourned his losses in a dark, depressive manner..

[–] mvillasosa 9 years ago

Agreed to everything you said. The part where I got when Hiro takes the chip away from Baymax to destroy Callaghan, that was a bit of a risky move, even to Frozen's darkest moment. I like this scene, but I wished that some parts got more focus than others. I can get through the team's scenes fine, but it's mostly focused on parts that I just consider OK. I found out which one I liked better by watching them many times.

[–] OhNooos 9 years ago

I still need to watch BH6 again. My first impression was that it was enjoyable, a good Marvel story, and that the colors were lovely. :)

I've watched HTTYD2 three times and love it more with each viewing. It's epic, classic, and nuanced.

[–] dramafreak42 9 years ago

While I personally prefer HTTYD2 over BH6, I don't find myself getting angry over this one. BH6 is still a very good film. It's certainly not like when Brave won (what in the hell was THAT about???)

[–] Xator_Nova 9 years ago

If you ask me, it is worse than when Brave won. xD
Brave won against Wreck-It Ralph and Paranorman, while it took the spot from Wolf Children.
Whereas BH6 won against HTTYD2, Song of the Sea and Kaguya-hime, while taking the spot from The Lego Movie, Minuscule and Giovanni's Island.
In fact, BH6 might be the worst winner in the category so far (outplacing Brave).

I mean, it is not a bad film (I gave it a B-), but it is far inferior to two other nominees at least, and takes the nomination spot of three other superior films.

"Citizen Kane" fan, "Frozen" fan, and "Boyhood" fan. ;)

[–] mvillasosa 9 years ago

I agree with you.

[–] LaCountess 9 years ago

The award legitimately belonged to the LEGO movie so no.

--
To learn how to ruin a fine, popular TV show talk to Jeremy Carver or Russel T.Davies.

[–] mvillasosa 9 years ago

I actually really liked The LEGO Movie, so I thought it was gonna get a nomination. I don't know which movie would have won if The LEGO Movie was included... In that case, I wouldn't have minded if TLM won, but since it wasn't nominated, I could only hope for HTTYD2, as that one was the better film for me. I haven't seen Song of the Sea or The Tale of Princess Kaguya, so I think I may change of opinion of who should have won.
But for the most part, directors prefer winning BAFTA awards and Golden Globe awards, and ever since this year's Oscars, there's been controversy regarding the voters' opinions.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] gilbert_gumphrey 9 years ago

I was furious. Poor Dreamworks can't even BUY a win; finally, a year where a mediocre and overrated Pixar movie couldn't have beaten out the superior Dreamworks flick, a mediocre and overrated Disney movie took the crown. Damn.

IN a way, it was even worse than when Brave won. Brave was a far worse film than Hero, but it was also up against much weaker competition (never cared for Wreck it Ralph, and both Frankenweenie and Paranorman were pretty forgettable). But this year, literally the worst animation out of the whole nominated category was the one that won.

It sucked.

[–] ZSanfili 9 years ago

It's sad too because this win isn't questioned as much as it should be because everyone is obsessed with Disney at the moment. Maybe I'm nit-picking, but I have always found Pixar/Disney fans to be some of the most obnoxious in existence. Case and point look at the board for "When Marnie Was There" - there is a thread suggesting that the poster is happy that Ghibli is "dying" because they can't "even win any Oscars anymore." I mean...what the hell kind of thinking is that?

This year was the best chance to see a non-Pixar/Disney film take the Oscar but, of course, Oscar voters let their kids choose for them (also Big Hero 6 was released in November - i.e. Oscar bait season). Also it's sad considering BH6 only won awards from the Sound Guild and the Visual Effects Guild prior to the Oscars.

Meanwhile HTTYD2 won the Golden Globe and the Annie.

Lego Movie won most Critic Awards, the Broadcast Film Critic Association, and BAFTA.

Kaguya won the LAFCA.

And Song of the Sea recently won the Irish Academy Award for Best Film. Not Best Animated film, best FILM.

ALL of these movies lost the Oscar (and Lego wasn't nominated, but people have ranted about that enough. I think it was overpraised as a film, but it definitely deserved a nomination)

All of these movies lost to Disney. In my opinion if you want a slightly less biased award look at the Annies.
This year HTTYD2 won Best Animted Film and Director, Lego won Best Writing, and BH6 only won for Best Visuals.

Bottom Line: Expect Disney/Pixar to win every animation Oscar from here on out, and watch as in 2018 HTTYD3, regardless of quality, loses to Frozen 2.

[–] gilbert_gumphrey 9 years ago

Right on all counts, really. I enjoyed Frozen and like a love a ton of Disney films, but they're output overall lately hasn't been that great, and I stand by my feelings of Pixar being the most over-praised filmmakers of all time.

Kaguya was excellent. Song of the Sea was a beautiful film. Dragon 2 was fantastic. What was the other nominated film, Boxtrolls? Even that was better than Big Hero 6. Lego Movie should've been nominated over Hero, and then possibly should've won.

A shame, really. I thought this was gonna be the year for a really deserving Oscar win for animation....

[–] ZSanfili 9 years ago

Yeah it's sad, but so long as most people don't see animation as a medium, rather they see it as a genre, it's gonna continue to happen until one studio decides 'f-ck it' and makes a dark as hell American animated movie that doesn't water itself down for little kids. I personally think Dragons 3 will be the film to set this off since it is supposed to be even darker than the second film, the question is will the Academy take notice or overlook it in favor of another Pixar/Disney film (especially a sequel since it seems like 2018 may be the year Frozen 2 and Incredibles 2 are released).

I also hate that animated films never get judged based on their directors/writers rather they are based on the studio that makes them. It's resulted in a mindset that every animated film released by DreamWorks is inferior and childish, while every Pixar film ought to be lauded as a masterpiece.

I do enjoy a lot of Pixar films, but they are definitely overrated. I think their most consistent and balanced storyteller is Brad Bird, and The Incredibles may be my personal favorite. Though I often say it is Pixar's best (not favorite, but best), I'll agree that Up had a phenominal opening and falls a tad later on. Wall-E suffers from this too, and I still think Toy Story 3 is a good but vastly overrated film that borrows too much from Toy Story 2 to stand on its own merits.

The reason I enjoyed HTTYD2 (and HTTYD), Song of the Sea, and Kaguya is because they make the most of the medium they are offered: great music, creative and vibrant animation, powerful emotion, i.e. things that are difficult to achieve in live action. I wish there were more films like that and less of the dialogue-heavy animated films filled with cartoony comic relief.
Case and point: I found the 'Forbidden Friendship' scene and the 'Test Drive' in HTTYD to be far more touching and beautiful than anything Disney or Pixar has produced.

Anyway that's my rant lol. All we can hope is that the Academy begins to take the Animation category more seriously in the future and maybe, just maybe, HTTYD3 can win the Oscar in 2018 and get the Toy Story 3 treatment.

[–] mvillasosa 9 years ago

Most of what you said is what I think too. I think Pixar movies won because at that time most animated movies from Disney or other studios were not as good. I'm also tired of seeing people say that animation is a genre. Like Brad Bird said himself: "if I ever hear that animation is a genre, I'm gonna punch him/her with my boxing globes" or something like that.
My father personally liked Big Hero 6 more than HTTYD2, but he did agree HTTYD2 was going to win. But then the Oscars screwed up even worse than on 2012, and BH6 won. Of the only animated movies nominated for the Oscars, I only saw HTTYD2, The Boxtrolls, and BH6. I'm interested in seeing Kaguya and Song of the Sea, especially the latter.

[–] gilbert_gumphrey 9 years ago

Agreed on every point, especially with regards to those two scenes in Dragon being better than anything Pixar or maybe even Disney has come up with. Pixar doesn't make bad movies, they just make mediocre, highly overrated ones. Give someone else a chance, world!

[–] ZSanfili 9 years ago

Nice to talk with people who agrees on this lol.

My dream is to actually work on animated movies, especially as a writer (I can't draw worth a damn), but I want to make screenplays that allow a lot of quiet moments so that the viewers can get immersed in the world and its visual splendor. Story may be paramount but if you don't take full advantage of the medium what's the point? From my experience jokes and too much dialogue (heck, even singing) can be oftentimes distracting so that you can't fully appreciate the world that the animators have built up.

Most companies seem to have the goal of making animated films that entertain families. I want to see animated films that aim higher. I want to see an animated film give their viewers an almost spiritual experience, which is something that I think animation coupled with a breathtaking score can achieve better than live action. It is hard to make me cry during a film, but I found myself misting up both during Song of the Sea and The Tale of the Princess Kaguya. The beginning flight in HTTYD2 didn't make me tear up or anything but it also had a great impact on me (especially the shot of Hiccup and Toothless from below when Hiccup activated his wingsuit and the sun reflected off of them...holy hell that was epic). Of course this is all my opinion, but it is still worth noting.

For now I eagerly await Kung Fu Panda 3, HTTYD3, and whatever international animation GKIDS brings to the US like Cartoon Saloon and Studio Ghibli (which I hope stays around longer despite reports that apparently "When Marnie Was There" is possibly their last film).

[–] gilbert_gumphrey 9 years ago

Yeah, unfortunately everything you're talking about exists almost completely with Studio Ghibli, and now they're saying they're done. A huge shame, because even their weakest films have the power to be spellbinding.

I'm a writer too, although I haven't done any animated films. Allowing a film time to breathe and mature is paramount, yet rarely winds up existing in the finished film. Sometimes this is for the best -- my last movie was supposed to be very slow and classical, and then when it was put together it was putting people to sleep, so I chopped it up and now it's an 80 minute thriller. These things can still surprise me :P

But even without Ghibli (and maybe not even Dreamworks, although they're often also to blame with ADD-prone films), there is hope for us yet! As you mentioned, Tom Moore is making wonderful animated films, with both Song of the Sea and Secret of Kells among the best films I've ever seen, animated or otherwise. Ari Foleman has now done two fantastic pseudo-animations, Waltz With Bashir and The Congress, that are patient and beautiful and haunting.

Great animated flicks are out there -- I just get sick when people don't look past their front Pixar door for them.

[–] mvillasosa 9 years ago

I haven't seen Kaguya or Song of the Sea, and I personally thought that while Boxtrolls was OK, it was deliciously dark, which I love. When it came down to HTTYD2 and BH6, most people preferred the former, and we sure it was going to win. But no! The judges don't judge the movies, their kids do!

Some time ago, I read 5 reviews from them, and only 1-2 had a pretty good reason to vote for their film. Both critics voted for HTTYD2. The rest said: "Awww BH6 is cute! And my kids watched it three times! What does that tell YOU?". One of the reviewers criticized Song of the Sea and Kaguya, calling them Chinese movies that should not be in the Oscars, and unfortunately almost none watched all the films.
Fortunately, I'm happy because:
1. There's been controversy about these choices the Oscars have made, and it's reaching many parts of the Internet.
2. Most directors that work in the animation industry prefer winning the BAFTA, the Annie Awards, etc., rather than the Oscars, they don't care :) They know the Oscars are not good when deciding the best film in the category.

[–] nicolo_san 8 years ago

Frankenweenie and Paranorman were forgettable but Wreck It Ralph was a pretty damn good movie. Also agree with Brave being pretty bad. Maybe not bad but also forgettable.

[–] TutuAnimationPrincess 9 years ago

I've never cared what the brick headed Academy thinks about animated films. I still believe the only reason the award was created was to keep animated films away from the other categories. As for 2014, I feel "Song of the Sea" would have been the most deserving to be considered best animated film of the year. That may change with time, but that's where I am now. I'm not mad over Big Hero 6 and it's victory since, sadly, it's business as usual.

Edit: Wow, what an out of date post. Anyways, The Tale of the Princess Kaguya should have been the winner by far. Other than that, the Academy still has bricks in their heads and Big Hero 6 is still mediocre nonsense.

"If life is getting you down and needs uplifting, then please come dance with me!"

[–] watcher101 9 years ago

I think part of the reason why BH6 won over HTTYD2, and by extension why HTTYD is better than the sequel is because after seeing the first one, we kind of knew what to expect when the second came out. While the sequel was very good, the first one was fresh and original with new characters. The sequel saw those same characters return (with a few new ones), so we kind of new what to expect from them, and we already knew what the theme of the movie would be like. This is why most sequels and remakes can't live up to the originals, because they lack the "freshness" the original gave us. BH6 had that advantage over HTTYD2 because, like HTTYD, it had a fresh and original idea.

[–] Thornspike 9 years ago

I was OK with it. I feel Big Hero 6 is a great film. Lego movie sucks. Box trolls is annoying to me. HTTYD2 is very good for me and enjoyable. I did not like Hiccups mom showing up in the trailers and was mad about having that spoiled for me though.

[–] watcher101 9 years ago

Did you know that his mom was actually supposed to be the villain? That's right, there originally wasn't going to be a Drago, and Hiccup's mother wanted to enslave the dragons. She was also the one to kill her husband.

[–] Thornspike 9 years ago

I did not. Thanks for informing me. My complaint was that during the movie we see a mysterious masked creature riding a dragon in the clouds which would have been so much more cooler to me if I hadn't already known it was his mom from the trailers. But oh well, pretty cool none the less.

[–] coolyhooly2001 8 years ago

BTW, do all of you realize that HTTYD2, BH6, and GODZILLA2014 link each other???

Godzilla & Toothless have the same BLUE-colored infernal breath as weapon, and BLUE-colored SPINAL GLOW midway during the battle when they reach the top of their anger.

GODZILLA2014 took place at a small city in Japan and San Francisco. BH6 took place at a combination of both cities.

HTTYD2 and BH6 both incorporate a flying being who protects a muscle-less genius. And in both movies, the duo spend a chilling time at a high point.