MovieChat Forums > Armadillo (2010) Discussion > Incredible.

Incredible.

posted 13 years ago by tradeskilz
39 replies | jump to latest

I've so been looking forward to this documentary and it didnt dissapoint. This movie really mirrored my time in the army (except i've never been to A-stan).

This is how the reality of war looks like to most men in the service. It felt honest and objective and at times a bit terrifying.
Not just the reality of war but also the soldiers reactions to that reality. Machismo, bravado and black humor becomes a way of coping. The truth is that all humans are a bit insane and it doesnt take much to bring a little of that out, and i think a lot of people don't want to be reminded of that judging from some of the reactions to this documentary i've heard.

These young men aren't different from you, your brothers or your sons. They are the same.

I also found it really disturbing just how openly the Afghan people opposed the Danes. You could clearly see that some of the "farmers" wanted to start shooting then and there.

[–] pmalt 13 years ago

My emotion was one of overwhelming pity for the Afghan people, who are caught in the middle of the realpolitik machinations of Europe, Russia and now America yet again. These fierce, brave and highly intelligent people have not had an hour of peace, it seems. To eke out a living on that unrelenting land is enough of a challenge, but then to be invaded and terrorized... it's THEIR country. Where is the logic, where is any sympathy and compassion for their shattered lives? I was hardest hit emotionally when those farmers were explaining how their cows were slaughtered, how were they going to feed their children? Did these young men in this movie care a bit?

The young mens' attitude toward the cil=vilian populace was, in my opinionL unintentional cruelty driven by fear and more than a little confusion. And their reasons for going at all, as far as I could see were very unclear at best: To find themselves somehow? To become team players? To establish or prove their masculainity? For heaven's sake, is Denmark being menaced by Afghanistan? Why are those young men even there, I asked myself. Is it because the Danish government was bullied into sending a force by the peawit Bush and now by the current disappointing administration?

I could see that the young men were deeply troubled by what they were doing, and since I am 63 years old and lived through the Vietnam era and its sad aftermath with respect to several of my young men friends, many God give them peace, those experiences can come back and trouble their lives deeply. But even with Vietnam, a case could be made at the time (I disagreed with it) that communism was a threat to America. But our leaders had experienced the consequences of letting Hitler and Stalin run amok, of seeing China fall to communism, and they were convinced that we needed to act to forestall WW III. Now by that yardstick, what possible rationale does Denmark have for being in Afghanistan? I am educable... if I have missed somethhing, I am open to hearing that. But in my opinion, the government of Denmark should refuse to participate in the muddled and internecine conflict in Afghanistan before any more young men are maimed or killed --- or wreak havoc on the people there.

[–] merks91 13 years ago

you probably also think 9/11 was an inside job? jokes aside the afghan people do suffer, but they do nothing to improve their situation. if you think we're dissolusioned about their situation, you need to understand how they operate. many of them don't even know 9/11 happened and think nato is there to destroy islam. they won't stand up to the taliban who believe it or not are bad *beep* around 30,000 civilians have died violently in afghanistan since the war began. during the taliban regime hundreds of thousands were killed and around 1 million were killed during the russian conflict. people are convinced the americans etc. in afghanistan are as bad as the third reich but it's really not the case. we are there for sincere motives and are doing the best we can.

[–] journalist1 13 years ago

Reply to tear-ridden PMalt:

'Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not
started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores in July 2002,
and in New York on 11 Sept 2001, and have continually threatened to do
so since?

Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day in
London , and in downtown Manhattan , and in a field in Pennsylvania ?

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible,
burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be
tortured by a justice system of the nation they come from and are
fighting against in a brutal insurgency.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for
incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11 and 7/7.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start
caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which is a crime
punishable by beheading in some Middle East countries.

I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking
off Nick Berg's and Ken Bigley's head while they screamed through their gurgling slashed throats.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called 'insurgents' in Afghanistan come
out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by
hiding in mosques and behind women and children.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of
Nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide
bombs.

I'll care when the western media stops pretending that their freedom of
speech on stories is more important than the lives of the soldiers on
the ground or their families waiting at home to hear about them when
something happens.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a western soldier roughing
up an insurgent terrorist to obtain information, know this:

I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not
to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take this to the
bank:

I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner - who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat,
and 'fed special food' that is paid for by my taxes - is complaining
that his holy book is being 'mishandled,' you can absolutely believe in
your heart of hearts:

I don't care.

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled 'Koran'
and other times 'Quran.' Well, believe me!! you guessed it ......

I don't care!!

Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who say they found it.

[–] zipdraw 13 years ago

you just said what i have been trying to put into words for a long *beep* time.... I even quoted you on facebook lol (just wanted to let you know there are others who agree with you)
I live in san fracisco and you can believe the mojority hate the fact that i agree with you.

[–] queerever 13 years ago

the blind led by the blind.

[–] ikke_for_let 12 years ago

You are not as smart as you think.

You just have a lower standard. You think it's acceptable for Taliban to rule over a country that houses training camps for terrorists.

It's not what you say that defines you, it's what you do. And you do nothing. Which means you are nothing. And it means that you support Taliban and everything it stands for.

And I already know what you are gonna respond. And the answer is no. Collateral damage is not the moral equivalent of targeting civilians directly like terrorists do.

[–] nakkas 13 years ago

Well said, mate, I agree wholeheartedly! You put it better than I ever could have!

"Who wants to send a message to Germany?!" Fredrick Zoller (Stolz der Nation, 1944)

[–] queerever 13 years ago

Good on ya digga' - the blind led by the blind led by the...

[–] TheHorn100 13 years ago

PMalt hits the nail on the head. And journalist1: 150.000 civilian deaths (Iraq/Arganistan) for 3.000 (twin towers)? Fair, is it? Thanks to the US for dragging everyone into the "war on terror". Keep up the good work. "Mission accomplished". When you have left everything will be the same or worse, just like Vietnam or Korea. Exept for the thousands of dead and the extreme amounts of money spent.

I can kill again. You gave me a reason to live. -Commander Arvid Harbinger

[–] queerever 13 years ago

So the lives of innocents in Afghanistan or Iraq aren't as valuable as The Brits, The Yanks, etc?

If you don't care, don't care enough to write trash.

[–] ManFromSanFernando 13 years ago

"many of them don't even know 9/11 happened". Why would they?
Interesting to see people who usually talk about freedom and self interest complain that poor people with no interest in the US would care about 9 11
"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles." Ronald Reagan

[–] queerever 13 years ago

Never trust ANYONE who talks about "them". Read my reply to the main post, tool. It should be somewhere near the end.

[–] nzxt 13 years ago

I know that the job as to become a soldier, provides good salary and benefits for anyone who's eager to get the adrenaline pumping.
The attack on 9/11 was truly an attack on the free world, this outspoken from Mr Bush whether we like it or not.
Afghanistan which was somewhat of a modern civilisation up to the 70s, has plummeted back to medieval times thanks to the Taliban regime.

Well, Denmark is a fully member of NATO and therefore obliged to participate in armed military operations overseas.
They engage the Taliban stronghold in the southern Helmand province together with the American and British troops.
Sweden is a neutral country like Switzerland, but still sends troops to the northern Afghanistan which is a calmer area.
Recent attacks by the Taliban even in the north has indeed undermined the security and trust for ISAF among the civilians to the worse.
What I felt lacking in this documentary was the inconsistent background story, I've read that the Taliban is pushing Helmand very hard now.

[–] ladoga 13 years ago

"Sweden is a neutral country like Switzerland, but still sends troops to the northern Afghanistan which is a calmer area."

Doesn't sound neutral to me.

[–] nzxt 13 years ago

You are right on target... the national opinion isn't too well about the reason why Sweden has to be in warzones with NATO despite it's neutrality.
Then again, it has happen before as when we co-joined UN in conflicts like the one in Kongo during the 1960s.
I really don't know why, maybe this tide of dumb socialism will turn as more soldiers will at best become wounded and be sent home paralysed.
Switzerland has only just recently become a member of UN, but I have no knowledge whether they participate in military observations past their border.

[–] ikke_for_let 13 years ago

Can anybody tell me what the difference is between being neutral and being a coward?

[–] Tiger_WOo 13 years ago

A coward is someone who is often afraid or gets scared easily, and neutral country is a country that is not involved in a conflict or war. Did that help you ?

Please stop posting stupidity like that, you are making our country look bad.

----------------------------------------
Work is for people who don't know how to fish

[–] ikke_for_let 13 years ago

Could it be that you are not involved in a conflict or war because you are afraid and gets scared easily. Said in another way: "neutrality" is one result of "cowardice". There are others, but in this case it is cowardice rationalized as nobility.

I don't think, you thought this one through. And the "stupidity" remark pretty much tells me that you don't think things through.... in general.

But of cause if you are a coward who deludes himself into thinking your cowardly attitude is somehow noble, all the more better to hide behind a belief that you are also intellectually superior.

[–] Tiger_WOo 13 years ago

You seem to have me all figured out. Except I do support the war, and had I not already been accepted into college doing my "værnepligt" I probably would have gone.

I was calling your comment stupid because you set it up in black and white that neutrality and cowadice are the same. There can be hundreds of different reasons why are country doesn't join a war.

By your logic, if everyone weren't such cowards, then every war would be a world war.
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Work is for people who don't know how to fish

[–] queerever 13 years ago

You have responded very well to him. But please, don't be a fool and consider going to yet another (wrong) war.

[–] Nizzemancer-1 13 years ago

And you've been to afghanistan and proven your bravery I take it?

Light travels faster than sound,
that's why people seem bright,
until you hear them.

[–] queerever 13 years ago

Going there has nothing to do with bravery. Only if you wholly equate bravery with rape, pillage, murder & destruction - (note the [also] metaphorical usage).

[–] Nizzemancer-1 13 years ago

1. Why are you responding to a 3 month old post?
2. Did you just equate the soldiers fighting in Afghanistan to Rapists, robbers and murderers? *beep* you, you can shove your worthless uneducated opinion where the sun don't shine.
3. Troll elsewhere.

Light travels faster than sound,
that's why people seem bright,
until you hear them.

[–] queerever 13 years ago

You are very obsessed with cowardice. Don't imagine your struggles are the struggles of all. Here I was imagining that peace was a decent goal... I guess some a holes like you want to throw stones even at neutrality.
Some people may come across as intellectually superior because actually, they are - just like some people are taller, or whiter... Now now, hold on, I am not talking about some kind of apartheid against stupid people, nor against pseudo intellects like yourself - I just think our human history, present and future could be a lot better if we PAY MORE ATTENTION to the intellectually superior.
PAY CLOSE ATTENTION: it is YOUR baggage to be focusing on all this "nobility" and "cowardice". Own it!

[–] queerever 13 years ago

You don't make very much sense, so you are hypocrite to expect it from the Govt.

[–] queerever 13 years ago

also try to read about the history of Imperialism. It's very real, & alive to day.

PS. there is no such thing as "the free world", what the f... I wish they would shoot stupid people - even worse than the Taliban...

[–] tdano 13 years ago

@pmalt

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here. So I'll ask to clear up confusion. You disagree that Denmark, a democratic nation, which believes in humanitarian efforts, should not be in a country that has lived under an oppressive regime for decades? A regime that is proven to massacre individuals and slaughter people for entertainment. I don't believe in simply saying, "Well they're(Denmark) no where near Afghanistan, so they shouldn't involve themselves." In fact it seems quite ignorant to imply that shutting ourselves in our homes and just ignoring the world around us will make things change for the better. Freedom is oftentimes brokered over bloodshed. And yes, civilians die in the process, but it would be an affront to the civilians and soldiers that have died to just pull out and let the Taliban to come back into power.

[–] yougotaids 13 years ago

It's disgusting how other nations bend for the US. It's US soldiers that should die in Afghanistan not Danish, Swedish and so on.

It's the US who spread radical Islam throughout the region to combat Soviet aka communism during the cold war.

It's the US that have been the key player in destabilizing the area.

The talibans domination of Afghanistan were funded and supported by the US, the US created the taliban rule in Afghanistan to stop soviet rule.

So, it's sons of the United States of America who should be dying, not the rest of the world.

And regarding Swedens neutrality? We lost it decades ago when we became the US lapdogs.

Just *beep* nuke the *beep* out of the middle-east and radical Islam will be done for. Especially Saudi Arabia - from where the most funding comes from.

[–] ShoeBuckle 13 years ago

There is a rise in all radical versions of religions right now in the world. It isn't just Islam and it has been happening for decades now.

At some point all religions will need to get together and truly end their myopic views of spirituality. Until that day happens biased attitudes felt towards each other will lead to only more violence.

[–] queerever 13 years ago

Well said, but you know all this warring isn't the tiniest bit about religion, silly. It's the resources, silly. It's history and geopolitics more than anything. That may sound cliché, but maybe because it's so true.

[–] zipdraw 13 years ago

and ppl say its only the US who are eager to drop bombs...

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] teapee28 13 years ago

In response to everybody, the fact of the matter is, if these men did not want to go to Afghanistan, they won't. These are grown men that can think for themselves. If they want to fight, they will. Politics plays absolutely no role in a man's decision to kill. It's all on him and he should not be victimized.

Being a soldier is a job and more people need to look at it that way. If a man quits on the military, he is not dishonorable, he just decided he was unsatisfied with his career. These people are not slaves, they won't be killed if they quit.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] ManFromSanFernando 13 years ago

I don't get what you say. Most normal people I know would never consider going to war or killing another person,how are modern soldiers normal?

"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles." Ronald Reagan

[–] queerever 13 years ago

Many thumbs up for you, my man. Have you noticed that here is FULL OF BEEF HEADS, the majority even start with a decent point, then get lost in the (unconscious) racism, treating Afghanis as objects, and thinking they are some Demi-god, proclaiming that oh yes, "The Taliban must be rid of". Sure, The Taliban suck, but these child "men" have no decent answer and seem completely devoid of the knowledge that heinous injustice continues to go on in their countries too, as everywhere. M' F' ckers. But I do like you.

[–] queerever 13 years ago

We don't all agree with your nation building, faux (false) concern for "freedom" or "democracy" or whatever you think the military is doing. I wouldn't have a brother if he went to kill foreign people in a foreign land, (in this case) because he had been brainwashed with such tripe as "The Taliban need to be removed and I could be a hero..."
The vast majority of military men are some kind of loser, losers who couldn't think of what better to do with a life. Convince yourself of any other lie - of course you will, everyone (especially stupid yanks) are obsessed with feeling special or worthwhile in life. I empathise with this point - you can criticise me of the same thing - I am human. But there is absolutely no justifying more of this type of Imperialist genocide. The smarter of us, we don't buy it. The cost of your idea of Justice, ("remove the Taliban" in this case), is far too high.

YES, yes, my friend, Saddam, The Taliban, they are terrible, horrible, maybe the worst - but those 2 are the most prime examples of lunatics given power, by exactly this - foreign invaders, terrible / horrible foreign influence...
So what is the mentality of so many idiots in this world, (if not idiots, evil people with something to gain), incl. Presidents from both sides of the mainstream spectrum, scum like Rumsfield, Cheney, The Clintons, etc, etc?
MORE FUEL ON THE FIRE - LET'S CORRECT OUR WRONGS WITH... THE SAME WRONGS.

IF, if anybody is to "take out the Taliban", firstly it should be the locals. IF, if, if any foreigners were to be involved (a very dubious, difficult & dangerous proposition) - it simply can't be stupid yanks, nor these stupid Danes - it would have to be a force who honestly have no past dirt (the US aided & abetted Saddam, the Taliban and basically every other of the nastiest), and in the case of this doco - certainly not these sick, sadistic, extremely ignorant, children.

I just can't believe that millions after millions of people will keep joining the military to fight for rich man's gains. Oh yeah, I have to remember that a (mostly young) mixed up fool, with desires to be a do gooder and/or too much gung ho testosterone on the brain, has to validate his worth, based on myth. The Myth that he (or she) won't or can't see - of course not - people rarely do when their interests are at stake.
Oh yeah, the military, what an adventure and training ground for self improvement, at the tax payer's expense. F & # * the military.
PS. the not waking up to the truth of the myth is probably why you were disturbed by the Afghani opposition.

[–] mrgoodsmoke83 12 years ago

This queer homosexual above me seems to be a little angry at the military.

What's the matter, bro? Did you get the crap beat out you by some jocks every day throughout high school? Did they kick your little magic cards around the cafeteria and call you mean names because you are physically weak? Do you forever hold a grudge against stronger and more intimidating people because of they way they treated your skinny queer ass? Are they the same ones who went on in life to serve their country and actually do something with themselves at age 17 other than sit in a classroom and bitch and whine about what others are doing?

Instead of discussing this film you come on the website and insult Americans. What, are you 10 years old? Maybe if we come to your sh*t country and kick your teeth in you might think twice?

Cowards like you are disgusting, they bring out the worst of humanity. Pacifists. Get your self-absorbed ass out off the books and take at look at how the real world operates. Your fantasy land where no military exists is just that, a fantasy. Keep insulting and degrading those soldiers who sacrifice their freedoms so that you can sit in your tiny apartment and write this crap on the internet. You would never dare to spew your bullsh*t to one of their faces, so don't come on here and try to do it.

[–] boesen78-600-412751 11 years ago

No, I truely believe that people like you would have let Saddam Hussein and other dictators around the world kill by orders of magnitude more people than wars ever caused.

Actually if you wanted to save lives from a pure numbers perspective you would want alot more wars.

But it's not about that, is it? It's about being able to sit on some uninformed morale high horse.

Hawk or dove... Either one seems just as much bandwaggon as the next...