MovieChat Forums > Tsumetai nettaigyo (2011) Discussion > Good movie but here's my beef *SPOILERS*

Good movie but here's my beef SPOILERS

posted 11 years ago by hexedd
18 replies | jump to latest

I've never seen a more spineless, gutless, pathetic weasel of a protagonist in my entire life. He could've offed all of those idiots at least 50 times, but every scene he sits there mute and does NOTHING. By the end of the movie I didn't even care about him or what happened to him because he's such a %*^(ing pathetic fool who can't stand up for himself or his family and my thoughts were "he deserves whatever he gets." He had so many outs. I don't care who it is, if someone threatened my wife or daughter, I'd go to jail for life and kill all those idiots, 99.9999999999999% of people would. Good movie but it's so frustrating to watch such a spineless idiot for two hours and twenty minutes.

[–] Nirhtuc 11 years ago

100% agree- this was my beef with the movie too.

I would have done the same as the OP. I do disagree that 99.9% of people would kill the psychos and go to prison for doing so, though. I think there are many cowardly people out there who would do precisely what the main character in this movie did. There were plenty of opportunities to get his family away from the psychos and do something about the whole thing. He could have put poison in the coffee whenever the psychos ask for coffee during their body chop sessions! He also could have alerted the police and gotten himself and the family away from the town where they lived (or sought some kind of police protection) until the police caught the culprits. The main guy just went along with everything the psychos told him to do and destroyed himself and his family in the end- I know most people like this movie, but I hated every minute of watching this so-called 'protagonist's' pathetic actions! He should have let the monster in himself out earlier in order to protect (and not destroy) his family!

[–] hexedd 11 years ago

Glad we are in agreement. :) I know some people could see our posts and say "Well yeah, but the movie is about the character's eventual transformation into a monster himself." The movie reminds me of one of my favourite quotes from Nietzsche in "Beyond Good and Evil," when he says "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster, and when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you." Essentially that I believe is what the movie is about, a man doing evil for evil people and then eventually becoming evil himself. The problem is though, there's no "transition," in his character. He literally just goes from being a gutless weasel the entire movie to "changing" in the last few minutes. Many other movies have done this type of plot (character transformation) but made the transition much more gradual and believable. After all, no one totally changes over night (even when they think they have). Old habits die hard, and it would have been a much better film if they had shown a slow, gradual transition. Also, for those that would defend it based on the "true story" element, if you read the real story the movie is really nothing like it at all. It's VERY loosely based on a real story. In the end I agree that there are some real cowards out there, but it's just ridiculous the way he acts like a total moron the entire movie and then suddenly "sees the light" at the very end. Overall, I love Asian cinema, but this one just didn't do it for me, and I think it was completely unbelievable in every way. If you decide to do the whole "based on a true story" thing, I think you should be held to at least keep some of it realistic in terms of character motivations and actions. This one was beyond the pale of realism in every possible way. Usually I agree with the ratings somewhat, but in this case I completely disagree. Terrible movie and very hard to watch due to the protagonist's weasel-like nature the whole film. He wasn't a hero or an anti-hero, he was just a buffoon.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] den1003 11 years ago

I mostly enjoyed the movie, but I see things a little differently. Mainly,I saw him as neither a buffoon or a weasel, but just an ordinary, mild man, living his quiet, safe, little life, trying to work through problems that any other blended family may have. The chaos started gradually during this very short period of time (2 weeks?) but escalated dramatically during the last three days. I think at the end, he didn't change as much as just snapped. His wife came to find him and went to him with open arms even after he raped and abused her, but it was too late. His life was over. Not being strong enough doesn't mean one is a coward.

[–] hexedd 11 years ago

I disagree. "The only thing evil men need to triumph is for good men to do nothing." That, if nothing else, is the moral of this story. He was spineless and allowed people to walk all over him and ruin his life and the lives of several others. He had several opportunities to act and he didn't. That to me is cowardly behaviour. I might add also that this mentality is enshrined in law too. If you saw a child on the street being abused or a woman being raped and you did nothing and then claimed in court you just "weren't strong enough" that wouldn't be a good enough excuse. It is stated that if it is in your power to act to stop a crime and you don't, that is a crime in itself. This guy was a weasel and a coward, not because he didn't act right away, but because he allowed his entire family and several other people to die or be grievously harmed simply because he couldn't grow a pair. The only comforting thing from this film was that it was just so extreme that it just wasn't believable.

[–] den1003 11 years ago

I disagree that he was a weasel or spineless. Culturally, he was simply unable to cope with the extraordinary situation into which he was thrust. Weasel, in this regard, means conniving or treacherous, and he was certainly neither. Spineless? No, I saw him as just incapable and overwhelmed. I had empathy for him. I saw his suicide and the murder of his wife as his acknowledgment of his inability to cope in the world. It is pointless to compare his situation to what he might have done had he simply observed a street crime taking place. This film was nominated for an Asian best film award, and I enjoyed it.

[–] hexedd 11 years ago

Well all I can say is I hope you never become a police officer or fire fighter, or that I ever need your help on the street lol. I don't care if it was nominated for an Asian best film award, that means nothing. Awards are always polarizing, even the Oscars. I didn't think it was the worst film on earth, but I just thought the main character was completely unbelievable and as I said, he was definitely the most cowardly protagonist I've ever seen in a film. You can use all of the psychiatric terminology you want about "coping" and all that, but fact is fact - anyone who lets their wife get raped, daughter enslaved and watches several people die when they have the ability to change the situation and destroy the culprits is a coward.

[–] ChazzJazz 11 years ago

Getting raped was better than tortured and killed....we talking mafia style cutting fingers and toes, nd worse.

Some people are sheltered lol

[–] Nirhtuc 11 years ago

Getting raped was better than tortured and killed....we talking mafia style cutting fingers and toes, nd worse.

Some people are sheltered lol

I HATE it when people say that! Have you ever been raped??? How can you say it's better than being killed? I'm sure there are people out there who would rather be killed than raped- I would! Would you say the same thing if you were raped by... I dunno, a guy? Probably because you're 'trying' to see it from a female's POV and think getting rape is 'not as bad as death' or something! >:(

[–] EuroTrasho 11 years ago

You don't know too much about japanese culture, do you?

Destroy Hollywood.

[–] hexedd 11 years ago

Actually I know a fair bit, I spent a lot of time in east Asia several years ago, and speak Japanese. But thanks for pulling out the most over-used and least-insightful argument deployed on every board for every non-English film. "You clearly don't understand the culture."

Actually I do thanks, I don't understand it perfectly, but I understand ten times better than most westerners, and I've spoken with several Japanese-born people (citizens and emigrants) who have also said even in Japan his actions (or lack of) were exaggerated and ridiculous. Anyone who has ever seen a Japanese person get pushed too far will know that when they "blow their tops" they don't put up with anything!

But thanks for coming out.

[–] jinx_malone 11 years ago

Then you know about the concept of ijime or dove-style violence, which concepts this movie addresses in a broad sense. It should be clear to you that this is not meant to be a man reacting realistically to what is being done but as an examination of said concepts.

-------------------------
"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Nirhtuc 11 years ago

While I still agree with the OP, this is a great reply and I see what you mean...

[–] parisz8 11 years ago

This movie's awesome.. Lot's of strong symbolism, Like the wife buying packaged cooked rice for dinner for the family, the male protagonist engulfing it like it was a great meal like any other, and the look of discontent from the wife as she ate it herself. this simply showed the woman knew her husband didn't care for her cooking & she was being faithless. he wasn't enabling himself to think of anything of her & she became accustomed to it.

She later enjoys being seduced by the rich old man who takes advantage of her, you don't exactly see this scene coming. A fine foretelling from a simple quick 20 seconds. who needs gradual character development? an hour glass can be flipped over in an instant.

[–] Kawada_Kira 10 years ago

To understand why the main character behaves like that, you need to have lived and worked in Japan. I have lived there over 10 years, and found the behaviour of the main character beliavable in its bizarre way. The movie is a black comedy about people, ethics, sexual frustration, and Japanese hierarchy system. The hierarchy thing is something that westerners are not used to. It means that if an elder, superior person compared to you tells you to do something, you do it. Murata was superior to him in every way. He helped him out with the daughter issue. He had great business going. He even conquered his wife. He was his "boss", and thus his superior. How Murata abused the main dude, was "power harrasment", which is very common problem in Japanese working society. When your superior has drained all the energy out of you and you still must show only respect to him, you don`t question even the weirdest, illegal and absurd orders. This movie is a black comedy of extreme events, but it`s not far fetched from reality really.

I really don't agree with this. Such things only go so far. That may apply just fine to ordinary situations but when a guy is f-cking dismembering people and forcing you to help him, such concepts become pretty meaningless. I mean it's one thing if you're a soldier in a war, where you expect violence and brutality on some level, but this was just an ordinary guy with an ordinary, bland, boring life, a simple shop owner with basic family problems, suddenly thrust into pretty much the most extreme situation imaginable. I think abstract cultural concepts of superiors and inferiors would be the last thing on his mind. The reason he didn't take any action is just, in my opinion, that he was utterly scared sh!tless and simply couldn't wrap his mind around the magnitude of what was suddenly going on around him, and he was mentally frozen in fear and didn't know what to do.

I also really disagree with the general theme of this thread, that the character was a "coward". I mean, i'd like to see any person on this thread thrust into a situation like that and see how brave they'd be. What he really was, was just an ordinary guy who couldn't cope with an unimaginably extreme situation.

"The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor."
- Voltaire

[–] fightme151 10 years ago

I didn't get why he just didn't tell the police in the parking lot.

I enjoyed the movie on the whole though, it's the first I've watched by this director, what's his best film?

[–] hawkychico-1 10 years ago

It's been awhile since I seen this movie. What I saw was he was an ordinary nice guy. He was the kind of guy people step on because he was so nice. His daughter was in trouble and he thought he found help. He was involved before he knew it. He had to worry about his daughter, his wife whom he loved (she didn't love him), and his well being. We also saw some others that knew what was going on. If he offed the guy and his wife, who would say something wouldn't happen to his daughter or wife. There was a nice tight circle. Everyone was screwing everyone. It's hard to say what you would do in this situation. As long as he went along with it, he seemed to think he and his family could live another day. He just couldn't live with himself. Many people go along with bad things because they feel stuck. He felt stuck and was in fear.