Anti-gay? - Courageous (2011) Discussion

[–] smitty1941 12 years ago

I didn't get that vibe at all, but of course they're "anti-gay" as you put it. They're Baptist...

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[–] jefffy 11 years ago

you are right. no-one (except maybe the OP) got that vibe from this movie.
yes, they are most probably anti-gayISM. they are most probably also anti-theft, anti-swearing, anti-alcohol, anti-divorce, anti-so-many-other-things.

baptists (i'm not one) know very well that your sin(s) do(es) not equal you. they do (try, at least in theory, to) separate sin from sinner. and this movie had so many positive messages that for me at least, singling out anti-gayism is a very serious distortion.

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[–] hodie 11 years ago

They may be anti-extramarital sex, but there was at least one character who had engaged in it, and I didn't see any indication in the movie that he wasn't "saved"
just like everybody else.

"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"

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[–] jefffy 11 years ago

you're right, but, if you notice i used the word 'may' as i am in absolutely no position to speak for them.

also, beside being anti-extramarital sex they _may_ be antiaccident, anti drunk driving, anti-theft, anti-corruption and anti bold face lying and anti drugs and cop-shooting and antideath - all of which were in the movie.
just because something is included it doesn't necessarily condoned.

on the other hand one positive character teaches his daughter something about it and for me that is the morality and teaching of the film, not the other character's.

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[–] tom-more777 11 years ago

Hi Smitty. No one is encouraged to be 'anti-gay', or 'homophobic' in Christianity. THere are no doubt some who perhaps are, but I find it vastly more common in this culture to regularly be accused of such, or of 'hating' or other quite weird responses if one questions what ironically is the outdated advocacy 'science' of the "just born that way" culture based as it is on LeVay and other discredited work.

I state the following seriously. There are serious people with good and open hearts who don't hate anybody but who recognize as modern science is in fact showinng that homosexual behavior mostly stems from family and personal history issues. The genetic componnent is small as identical twin studies show.

Any young person who gest into the life has a 1.4% chance of contracting the HIVAIS virus (less than 2% of the population in the US has 63% of all infections) and the signals of unhappiness in the gay community including a suicide rate up to 8 times the average even in gay friendly countries, suggest that kids whose life circumstances are shifting them that way, should receive our help. We should not be letting a frankly discredited dogmatism railroad them into homosexual patterns. They are not 'born that way, do check out NARTH and other websites and see if I'm not telling you the truth. Identical twins for instance have less than 10% concordance in modern studies.

And the Denmark registry study of 2006 and the recent New Zealand correlations with physical , sexual and emotional abuse and gender confusion are consistent with the facts.

So.. while some peope are indeed 'anti-gay' or unforgiving or judgmental, which are serious flaws in some, I have met very few 'hateful' people as the media keeps saying, but more than a few with a very real concern for troubled kids who need our help, not a marriage license.

Thanks

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[–] Heretic_Of_Jeff_Bezos 12 years ago

Ok, as an ex-member of the church that made this film, I must defend them.

It's not their intention to treat homosexuals any differently than straight people. In fact, Sherwood is against ALL sex outside of marriage. Every type.

I am the prophet of the IMDb Mod Gods. They act when I call.

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[–] ekmyers 12 years ago

It's not their intention to treat homosexuals any differently than straight people. In fact, Sherwood is against ALL sex outside of marriage. Every type.

But since they are against gay marriage, saying that they are against "all sex outside of marriage" isn't exactly a defence.

ekm
Writer/Director -- ROULETTE
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1294794/combined

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[–] Heretic_Of_Jeff_Bezos 12 years ago

I'm personally an atheist. I didn't say that it made sense. I just said that it was what they believed.

They are also against divorce (available under few circumstances). Basically, the vast majority of the world is not viewed in a positive light by this church because it's a fundamentalist organization.

I am the prophet of the IMDb Mod Gods. They act when I call.

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[–] ekmyers 12 years ago

I'm personally an atheist. I didn't say that it made sense. I just said that it was what they believed.

They are also against divorce (available under few circumstances). Basically, the vast majority of the world is not viewed in a positive light by this church because it's a fundamentalist organization.

I am likewise an atheist, and while I appreciate your efforts to be diplomatic, homophobia is no different from racism or sexism. We're on the same page -- I'm just a little less forgiving of their Dark Age politics.

ekm
Writer/Director -- ROULETTE
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1294794/combined

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[–] tom-more777 11 years ago

actually. as the Denmark 2006 registry study, identical twin studies and the latest New Zealand studies show and suggest, gender identity confusions are correlated with family pathology and physical, sexual and emotional abuse that interfere with the normal sexual identity of a person.

The comparison with race and colour is completely not applicable. Identical twin studies alone show this conclusively. But it will probably be a generation or two before people stop believing what the media keep pushing. Hundreds of thousands of young people are being railroaded by this blind dogmatism that is now very evidently false. No one is 'just born that way'. The kids need our help, not marriage licenses, as if this could change their biology. It astounds me how people have been talked into this one.

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[–] ravenosa 11 years ago

Hard to tell if you're being serious or not.

The identical twin theories also suggest genetic mutation may be a factor to one twin being gay and one not. Not sure if it says anything about that in the Bible or any other ancient superstitious texts.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080511164133AAE1SlZ

You should also read up on the Denmark 2006 study ...

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[–] tom-more777 11 years ago

May I suggest that you re-read my post for seriousness. The identical twin studies don't suggest any such thing, and why did you address the bible in my post which had nothing to do with the bible. As the Denmark 2006 registry study and the recent New Zealand study's overwhelmingly indicate, we mostly MAKE people turn homosexual. How could it even be possible for a 'homosexual' gene to keep replicating itself?

This bum scientific advocacy crap has seen us stand by while 760,000 young men get sacrificed to this imposed dogmatism. Look at the people your rhetoric is killing. The bible, incidentally is historically, very well founded, suggests the exact same philosophical realism that Plato, Aristotle, and other geniuses proved, and provides and end and purpose for human life consistent with our experience. As Edward Feser writes so well in "THe Last SUperstition: a refutation of the new atheism", it is the idea that human intelligence is an accidental result of dust swirls, is as superstitious and stupid as it gets.

Most North Americans can see through such idiocy so often introduced, as here, to defend some bizarre notion about human sexuality backed by spurious 'evidence'.
Cheers
Tom

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[–] tom-more777 11 years ago

Approximately 760,000 young American boys died of AIDS and are continuing to conrtact it where 2% of the population contract 63% of new HIV infections. For the most part it is because the human body , male of female has not evolved with the lower bowel being capable of being used as a sex organ.

The case against homosexual marriage is simply respecting human nature. In no other area are so many frankly bizarre arguments presented, and the science is ALL going towards homosexual responses being 'fluid' and mostly responses to extrinsicn influences , not 'being just born that way' as we keep reading in newspapers We really aren't, and our biology signals this.

I appreciate and share the supportive view of homosexually attracted persons, but kids wrestling with these issues deriving from sources correlated in the Denmarks and New Zealand studies, need our help, not licenses. Dr Jeffrey Satinover who treated the very first to die of AIDS has written a truly compassionate and informed book and the brave people at NARTH.com have a brave website.

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[–] erikumikabe 11 years ago

I didn't get that vibe whatsoever. That being said, if your argument is against the church in general for being "anti-gay", then this is SO reminiscent of the Chick-Fil-A protest. You can label it that way, but I prefer to label it as Pro Traditional Marriage. I suppose it's all semantics. But please do tell me, what church in this world, that is of the 3 Abrahamic faiths, is NOT Pro Traditional Marriage, or as you say "Anti-Gay". If this was the message you got out of this film, then you may want to seriously reanalyze your prospective on life in general. This film speaks to all father's, regardless of their denomination. But, it was intended to be a religious film, just as they did with Fireproof, Against the Giants and Flywheel. These are the types of films that they make. Faith has everything to do with them. And by the way, I'm not anti-gay.

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[–] Heretic_Of_Jeff_Bezos 11 years ago

, then this is SO reminiscent of the Chick-Fil-A protest. You can label it that way, but I prefer to label it as Pro Traditional Marriage.

Yet another person who doesn't understand the protest over Chick Fil A. The point isn't because they don't support homosexual marriage (even thought their drink partner, Coca Cola does). The point is that Chick Fil A's profits went towards funding literal hate groups. (source: Southern Poverty Law Center)

Some of these groups have even been caught fabricating lies to slander gay people, particularly targeting adoption rights and custody battles.

I am the prophet of the IMDb Mod Gods. They act when I call.

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[–] David_Bro 11 years ago

Then why did the protest start after he made those comments. The truth is, it was against the comments and when they found out that people thought they were being silly, they frantically search for another way to justify themselves.

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[–] Rapturegal 11 years ago

The point is that Chick Fil A's profits went towards funding literal hate groups. (source: Southern Poverty Law Center)

Note: Your source the SPLC is a hate group. Nice try though.

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[–] Heretic_Of_Jeff_Bezos 11 years ago

Note: Your source the SPLC is a hate group. Nice try though.

Wow. The civil rights advocacy group is a hate group? They are a nonprofit dedicated to defending people that are victims of hate groups.

I don't suppose you have a source for this (other than Michelle Bachmann).

I am the prophet of the IMDb Mod Gods. They act when I call.

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[–] jefffy 11 years ago

really?? is this the one message you got from watching this film?
man, you really, really have some problems with your filters...

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[–] jefffy 11 years ago

oh, and just so that you know, since they are kind of a fundamentalist leaning baptists, their view is most probably this:
- marriage is a Godgiven and a God-ordained institution, any AND every alteration to it is a sin. gay and lesbian sex, premarriage teen (straight!) sex, ANY kind of adultery - is sin.

so if you want to single out gay sex as the forbidden thing to go by this film, then it is telling me that really you are the one with an agenda, not them.

according to christianity, any and every change in the creation order is a sin. yes, being gay is one of them. but so is every kind of sex outside of marriage, so is theft and murder, so is being selfish and so on.

so you better get off of that (gay) high horse.

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[–] ummmagumma 11 years ago

Can you tell me what part of the movie made you think that? Like something one of the characters did or said? I watched it last year but I don't remember ever thinking that, so I'm curious.

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[–] jpf502 10 years ago

Okay maybe others didn't get that vibe and I really didn't either, that is until the end. At the end, the main character is standing up at a podium and he says, "Research now more than ever is showing that children need both a mother and father in the home" or something along the lines of that. I think the way he spelled it out "mother and father" and even that they put this "statistic" (no source provided) in the movie shows that they meant to not include different family structures, such as same-sex families, while giving his speech. I'd love to learn more about that "research" he was talking about. I have a feeling it would be coming from "scientists" like the ones who said black people have inferior brains compared to white people back in the late 1800's early 1900's.

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[–] Hanz-Willhelm 10 years ago

Is this movie or the director anti-gay? I kind of got that impression since it seemed like they were implying that not having a father figure growing up leads people to become gay, which is just rediculous.

You're a troll. Go away.

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