I am a catholic and I think this movie was wonderful. In my perspective, it looks to me, Robert, that you are still a very immature person who has yet to fully be emotionally open and allowing yourself to be vulnerable. Most people are too uptight and unwilling to make fools out of themselves. They couldn't conceive of dancing in the rain or in the store or in a parking lot. Yet, people who know how to love fully and who are secure with themselves wouldn't think twice, wouldn't care. If the moment called for it, if they were moved, they would dance. And with kids, you have to make fools out of yourself all the time. To be with a kid, to spend time with a kid or kids, you have to play with them. I'm 25 and I ride the scooter around the neighborhood, practice cheer dances with my 9 year old niece, play charades in the front yard, play patty-cake games with the girls at my dance studio, play sports and video games with the boys. To connect with kids, playing with them is what you do, and they appreciate it and respect you for it. I'm also a very strict parent, much more than my own mother, but children also need direction, and they respect the direction I give them. However, although I may be more "old-fashioned" as my mother calls me on how I raise and discipline children, I am not afraid of playing silly games with them at the store, the studio, the front yard or where ever the opportunity comes up. As a faithful catholic, I also pray in public. I am regularly caught crossing myself, saying grace before a meal, or praying the rosary.
I hope one day you can open up your heart enough to realize that it is okay to be corny and silly. In the cynical, negative world we live in, I appreciate corniness in my entertainment and in the people I choose to surround myself with. It's wonderful to see movies like this and to have such a wonderful film to entertain my family with. After all, you become what you surround yourself with. That's why I got rid of my rated R movies in the house. If my kids can't watch the movies, then why should I? Those kind of movies only bring in temptations I don't want in my life. Same thing with the songs I buy or listen to. They may be catchy, but if they are about sex or an unclean lifestyle, then I no longer want it. All of that stuff entertained me when I was younger, but all it did was encourage a worldly lifestyle than a Godly one. I want to surround myself with things that will positively affect my subconscious and my family's subconscious and encourage us to be happy in our daily lives and make a positive impact on this world.
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robertjolls
12 years ago
So from my comments, you believe I surround myself with R rated movies and am immature? Neither "Bella" nor "The Way" are rated R, and although I do happen to have favorite movies that happen to be R rated, that is a different argument entirely compared to the dancing scene of "Courageous." Your examples are great, I would love nothing more than to see a mother being silly with her children in public, because she is celebrating in their life. However, in the dancing scene, there is no child. He dances alone, and seems utterly helpless. He embarrasses himself. Is this really how we as Christians want to be stereotyped as? Why would you want to "make a fool out of yourself" (as you put it)? That doesn't sound positive does it?
I really wonder what you mean by "emotionally open." I have had both sadness and joy sweep through my life, and I know sorrow when I see it. I have "made myself vulnerable" through different movies I happen to find more powerful than "Courageous."
The reason I created this discussion was because of the people who thought I was out of my mind to be a Catholic and not like this movie. These are the reasons why, and I don't want to be associated with this movie. Don't call me immature because I know and respect non-Catholics and realize that they may see this movie and think I behave like that. I don't want people to think I would push my faith upon them forcefully. "Courageous" changes from a heart-warming story to an in-your-face movie. It behaves to me almost like a political message, trying to change your viewpoint upon walking out of the theater. It takes time to convert people and give them the truth.
As for the cheap shot at me and my maturity: my grandparents were both killed at the same time when I was 9, by a drunk driver. I've seen God's grace at its greatest, seeing how terribly the crash was, yet no blood or scars appeared on them. 8 years later, I regret moments I could've spent with them, but I don't go out and do something ridiculous to show that regret. From the beautiful goodness and miracles that came out of that day (I only mentioned one of many), I don't think I am just another immature 17 year old who doesn't like a movie because it's religious.
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SellaSellyBowBelly
12 years ago
People relate to stressors, tramas, and trajedies differently depending on where they are at in their lives, who they are at the time in their life, and the circumstances that surround them. I'm sorry about your grandparents, but if they happened to pass away at this time in your life, I'm sure you would react differently than you did at 9. You see your relationship with your grandparents through a child's perspective, knowing that your relationship with your grandparents was in their hands more than it was in yours. The father in this movie had more responsibility, more control over his relationship with his daughter than you had with your grandparents. The father regretted all the things he didn't do with his daughter. He felt he needed to do those things, which meant going to that same parking lot and dancing where everyone would have seen him dance had he done it in the first place.
People usually regret what they didn't do in life rather what they did do, because when they come to regret it they realize they cannot go back and do it even if they wanted to. Just like the brother in this movie. How he cried and said he wished he had been a better brother. What he did not realize is that he was learning how to be self-involved just like his dad. His dad only did what he felt like doing, instead of being present and spending time with his loved ones participating in what they are doing.
I don't find that scene unrealistic at all.
I actually wondered if you were much younger than me because of your judgments and criticisms of the movie. It looks as if you are being too hard on something you do not completely understand. You are still learning about life. And trust me, I thought I understood more things than I really did at your age. Take that into consideration. With more life experience, you just might come to feel differently.
Also, that father was not catholic, so I don't understand why a non-christian would think you, as a catholic would behave like a protestant. Javier's family were the only catholics in the movie as far as I could tell. Adam Mitchell was behaving like a human, not like a stereotype. People grieve in different ways, not everyone's grief is the same. Some people choose to wallow in their self pity, while others choose to learn and grow from their hardships in life.
Another thing, if people are judging you based on a movie, then they've got a problem. Like I said, not everyone is the same. Not every religious person is going to rub their beliefs in other people's faces. However, some people happen to be very proud of their faith and enjoy talking about their experiences. Most of the men in that group were religious, which made it more comfortable to talk about their faith even with those in the group who weren't. They all tolerated and respected eachother's beliefs, but shared their experience and what worked for them. From a catholic perspective, I think it was great that Javier was apart of the group and participated at the end in a protestant church in support of his friends.
The entire movie seemed truthful to me. I've grown up around protestants and catholics and as a kid and teenager I practiced protestantism; in my early twenties I got my catholic education and finished my sacraments. These men behaved like protestants to me. Over course, not every protestant is that strong in their faith, just like most of my catholic relatives don't do a lot of what I do as a catholic. I have relatives who only go to church on holidays, while I have friends who attend mass everyday and pray the rosary every night with their family. Everyone is different in their faith.
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robertjolls
12 years ago
First off, I do think the scene with the brother is very realistic, as well as the scene with the mother when she first finds out about her daughter's death. The parking lot scene, once again, looks too helpless and weak, I don't find it compelling at all. True, I'm young, and don't understand all of life, but I know I wouldn't want to wallow in the tragedy of the event and make a fool of myself. I think it also bothers me from a filmmaking standpoint as well, perhaps if it had been better acted or if he didn't have to say anything, just dance, I would've appreciated it a bit more.
The reason a non-Christian would think I behaved like a Protestant because of this movie is because they are non-Christian, and typically, they don't know the differences between Christian denominations and Catholicism. Also, the Catholic Church and many Catholic organizations stood firmly behind this movie, so many picture it as "a Catholic movie." They don't "judge" me from a movie, but seeing the movie does bring up questions concerning how I live my life and how my faith works.
Of course people are proud of their faith, and that is a commendable thing. But I'm not talking about the group of men in the movie. Of course they're all religious, so it's fine. I'm talking about the speech at the end, how it tries to hit you hard, as if it is like a political message. The characters in the movie don't wave their religion in people's faces, because the characters are religious. The movie, however, shoves its religion into the viewer's face, at least that is what I felt.
A movie that gets people wondering about the Catholic faith and the goodness and healing of Christianity without being so forceful is "The Way" with Martin Sheen. If you have not seen it, I highly recommend it, I found it much more realistic and well-crafted than "Courageous."
I think you put it best when you said "Everyone is different in their faith." You found this movie helpful and insightful to your faith, I didn't. I look for more deep and subtle messages than right upfront. ("Bella" and "The Way")
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