MovieChat Forums > Avatar: The Way of Water (2022) Discussion > Jake's plan made no sense!

Jake's plan made no sense!

posted a year ago by sati_84 (441)
12 replies | jump to latest

So Jake is hailed as this genius military tactician at the beginning of this movie. In light of the events of the first movie, it is understandable. He knows how the humans operate. He knows their mentality and attitude, and of course their startegy and tactics, so he can deploy effective counter measurements, as evidenced by the tree tribe's victory at the end of the first movie. So far so good.

But Jake becomes absolutely braindead at the beginning of this movie. Let's see the facts:

- Jake knows that the primary characteristic of humans is that "they don't give up". So it should not surprise him at all that they are coming back.
- Jake is aware that Quarich is back, he even kidnaps his children, proving that there is a personal grudge / revenge angle of all this.
- Jake successfully united the tribes at the end of the last movie. So he is governing over effectively infinite resources when it comes to fighting back.

So if you were in Jake's position - what would you decide? I think just going by common sense, the very last thing on anyone's list should be "running away to a different tribe". It's stupid. It's insulting the audience's intelligence. Jake knows they are going to hunt him down, especially Quarich and his goons. That is the one thing humanity in general would be doing, as he is a prime target, so it would not make sense to run away and hide even without Quarich's involvement.

And he did not even have any other plan! I mean it was not "we will hide at the water tribe until I can amass a large enough army to fight the humans and drive them away again" or "While I am hiding, the other tribes should do guerilla warfare, perform tactical strikes on key resource lines, I will instruct them on how / what to attack". The way it is depicted in the movie, he just expected to live in peace with the water tribe... until he dies of old age? Wow, that made my brain hurt!

Also, the story is all over the place. Humanity wants a new home now, instead of just mining Unobtanium. Oh, wait, scratch Unobtanium, they are after whale juice now. I know Cameron wanted to show the water tribe and the cruelty of whaling, yadda yadda, and wanted an excuse of how to integrate the water tribe into the story. But... still you need a stroy for that. What we got at the end - after 13 years! - was just a plot outline that needed finer details, more fleshed out characters, etc.

On the positive side, Cameron still knows how to shoot an action scene, and the overall visual clarity of the movie was just awesome, especially in IMAX 3D. It was not quite as shocking technical leap as the original movie in 2009, but there were some shots and scenes where I could not even tell if there was any live action involved in the creation or not... And even considering how stupid the foundation of the story was, the plot flows (no pun intended) well, so overall the experience was entertaining - but I was mad how they sidelined Jake to focus on the kids and made him really dumb.

[–] sati_84 (441) a year ago

Let me try a bump... thoughts?

[–] Boricanator (1365) a year ago

This was part of Jake’s arc in this film.

I think that years without war and having kids changed him. The first incident with Quaritch’s clone shocked him. He was overwhelmed with fear. People who are afraid make very stupid decisions. Going to the water tribe was one of them.

To make it worse, they captured Spider, who knew their location.

But at the end, Jake realizes that he couldn’t run away and that he needed to fight.

So, his arc came full circle.

[–] sati_84 (441) a year ago

You would be right, if this was the first part of the story. But this is a sequel - and Jake already realized he could not run away in the first movie.

On top of that, given their history with Quaritch, no one in his right mind could think Q will not chase after them.

But I'll tell you what would have made sense. What if only the kids are sent to the water tribe, allowing Jake and Neytiri to fight themselves (with the tree tribe), and knowing they are safe and protected there. Or at least float this idea, then have Neytiri shut it down, saying that the family should stay together. That would have been a more sensible plot, since it's just out of character for Jake to try to hide and expect the humans giving up - leaving them alone.

[–] maximmm (3033) a year ago

I think an argument could be made that his position changed the moment he had children. He became overprotective - hence the run, despite knowing how futile that was.
I'm merely suggesting a counterpoint here - personally, I think the story in the first film and this one were utter crap - a cheap mimicry of much better films in terms of storytelling.

[–] wearsalan (5554) a year ago

What we got at the end - after 13 years! - was just a plot outline that needed finer details, more fleshed out characters, etc

Yup. Bored me to tears.

[–] majaplaya (922) a year ago

I loved it but you are right on the story criticisms. It was the weakest part of the movie.

[–] sonans (1200) a year ago

I just finished the movie, I've the same question: "Why go to another tribe?"

What makes Jake think humans will forgive his soldiers because he is not there anymore? Why not move the entire tribe to another place?

[–] fc31 (4515) a year ago

So James Cameron can show you the ocean and water.

He has become a diving and submarine enthusiast since Titanic, I think the plot was forced into that direction because he wanted to share the beauty of ocean, which is his passion.

It worked greatly on visuals, but of course does not make that much sense in terms of plot development.

When I was watching I was impressed with visuals in the beginning, but after watching, it has this weird and forgettable after taste. It is just another stupid blockbuster.

[–] naDaht (1087) a year ago

Let me ask you this; Have you changed since 2009?

[–] sati_84 (441) a year ago

In many ways, yes, I have. However, my ability to assess situations logically has not.

And look, I get it. Having kids changes the situation. Changes the person. That's ok. Hell, that would be a great foundation for a good story.

At one point, Jake even acknowledges this out loud in the movie, saying something to the effect of them needing to decide to run a military operation or run a family. And that is a great conflict! At that point, I was hoping that the script will be competently built to explore this duality in Jake's character, the behavior of his family, etc. There are multiple ways to deal with this, like him acting as a military commander in one moment then as a dad in the next, reflecting on this, trying to make sense of this - but we get maybe 2 or 3 scenes like this, before he comes up with the plan to get into hiding. And that's the point where this all falls apart. Suddenly this is dropped altogether. They are not dealing with this actual conflict anymore, they are fully focused on integrating themselves into the water tribe as a family - which is in itself could be an exciting plot point, but it's not at all what was built up in the first hour or so!

So in the script, Cameron wanted to create the situation of Jake and co. joining the water tribe, and he failed to create the proper justification for that. At the beginning, he touched upon an interesting aspect of how things changed since the previous movie, and then did nothing further with it, since he had the water tribe in mind right from the start.

And that piece of poor writing created this plan that made no sense, especially coming from Jake, especially him knowing Quarich being back and involved. The sole reason he came up with that plan was to have an excuse of them going to the water tribe. Otherwise, it is completely out of character for him to believe that nonsense as a viable "plan".

[–] proneblocked (9) 10 months ago

I'll try to answer in full, I think you'll be sattisfied:

1. Jake saw ships land. Saw huge fires. He has no more intelligence. He has no idea that Earth is done. He has no idea what they're after. They just arrived, just like that. To outright attack them - would be carnage for near to no reason (yet). Nobody is coming to them, nobody is touching the tribe yet. Just skirmishes, some sort of guerilla warfare that the NaVi are easily winning.

2. Look how his sons talk. Military discipline, raised that way. Jake knew "skypeople" would come back. So he nervously prepared (them), it was a burden on him all along, all that time. And now he all of a sudden finds out his family is the primary target. That would shake your boots, wouldn't it ?

3. You mentioned (later post) duality. Yes, Jake became soft. Family is his weakspot. It's a thing the enemy can "squeeze". So he tries to remove them from the firing line. At the same time, it doubles as "protection" for the whole clan, drawing away fire from the whole population.
It also wastes enemy's time.
Family man vs military man. What's more important ? How do you sort out the priorities ? Maybe there's "the min-max, most effective way possible" somewhere in there ? That's what Jake tries to do, with that cards he's been given.

4. After the first hostage situation, it becomes clear to him (he still doesnt know about Earth), that they're after him.
He's the only one who can unite the peoples of the planet. Last time, he even used the whole planet against "skypeoples".
He realises why there's a top mark on his head and his family. He's important, he's the "link".
He also realises that he cannot "unite" the peoples + Aiwa just for his selfish protection. That would not happen.

[–] proneblocked (9) 10 months ago

Most importantly - it's the second movie.
I'll give you an example. Imagine - you're holding a pigeon in your hands. And your friends make bets where the pigeon will land. One says the tree, the other one says postbox, the other one says it will fly far away, another one says it wont fly anywhere.
Whatever the pigeon does, only one guy will be right and win the bet. All others, what they thought would happen, will be dissatisfied and unhappy.

It's the same with every single movie and every single video game. First release is always shock and awe. People are captured.
And then they start speculating, day dreaming and planning themselves what the second movie should be. According to themselves, their life experiences, their losses in life, their life lessons. They all want their life experience to be materialised in the second movie.

So I think James Cameron turned the movie according to himself. There's a bit of old father figure that goes soft (as a man) because of his family. There's a bit of tribe leader pressure, with stakes on his head. There's a bit of ocean exploring hobby from Cameron himself. There's a bit of environment saving stuff. There's a lot of "women generals" and "men are idiots" and they don't know what they're doing. If you dissect the movie step by step, you'll realise what an unbelievable amount of things are crammed into it.

The Matrix - amazing movie. Look how disappointed people were with the second and third. I loved the 2nd and 3rd. It's just...the cat is out of the bag with the 1st. It's no longer yours (as a director/writer). And that is the problem.

I do agree - they could've given more compelling reason for Jake to go to sea people, because seeing him flee like that looked a bit pathetic. Just slightly more meat to it.

But on the other hand - if you were truely in Jake's shoes, wouldn't you have done the same ? Maybe 20 years later, when you're older and have 3 kids or more, you'll understand the meaning of it.