MovieChat Forums > Blackthorn (2011) Discussion > Are they just ignoring the fact that Cas...

Are they just ignoring the fact that Cassidy died?


Not to sound completely ignorant, but it looks as if this film is set after "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" era, so wouldn't he be dead?

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[deleted]

oh one of those...



"It's for the pain. Rarely touch the stuff...Can I have another?"

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[deleted]

well...it looks like the only movie coming into theaters this friday worth seeing!


"It's for the pain. Rarely touch the stuff...Can I have another?"

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[deleted]

it was a good time.



Just put it on the Underhill's tab.

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Actuually, since it was never conclusively proved that those outlaws were Butch and Sundance it's a lot less ridiculous than Young Guns II. There was far more evidence for Billy the Kid's death than there ever was for Butch and Sundance. The basic evidence is that they never showed up again. But then again they were in hiding. That was the whole point of hiding, to not show up again. Unlike Billy who quite clearly wouldn't stop making trouble until he died.

FABRICATE DIEM, PVNC

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I don't know what the plot is in this, but even he was shot in the original doesn't mean he had to die. Many people get shot and survive.

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i rented it off of amazon. it is a good movie. they do address it but you might not like what i have to tell you.

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Cassidy and Sundance's deaths were never proved. The Pinkerton's never closed their file on the outlaws. Any two gringos seen in Boliva were designated as Butch and Sundance. Experts have tried to exhume their bodies from the cemetery without success so who's to say one or both of them escaped or were even at San Vicente.

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SPOILERS AHEAD........... he was shot twice in this, and still survived, the 2nd time being in the middle of a desert. Now ain't that some sh-t.

________________________________________
don't watch me with those eyes.

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Original? This is not a sequel to anything. It is a standalone film. It is based on the real life Butch Cassidy, who supposedly died in Bolivia 20 years before the start of the movie. But they address that well, I think.

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>> Many people get shot and survive.

Especially in the movies. They get shot and die, and get up again, and get shot again, and again sometimes! ;-)






1) UnWatchable 2)Watchable,ButBad 3)Decent,SeeOnce 4)Good,Repeat&Recommend 5)Great,Classic

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hes alive. livin in my basement rite bout now

I live, I love, I slay, and I'm content

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Also keep in mind "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" dipicted the Bolivia "showdown" pretty inaccurately. There was no army there just local police. Also from what i've read the standoff lasted into the next morning. Who's really to say Butch...if it really was him didn't manage to escape. All we have is the Bolivian account of the event.

I am the Lizard King...i can do anything.

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Whether they were killed in Bolivia hasn't been settled. During filming of BC&SK, Butch's sister (I think) was interviewed, telling of his coming back and visiting after being in South America.
Grab "Digging up Butch and Sundance" by Anne Meadows, it's cheap from Amazon as used. PBS had also done a documentary about it, on Nova.


What I had in mind was boxing the compass.

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Based on the accounts of various "old timers" like Butch's sister, one might conclude that NO famous (or infamous) person in the West EVER died when they were reported to. Butch and Sundance, Jesse James, Billy the Kid, Curley Bill Broscius, Custer and his command, Crazy Horse, ALL of them were supposedly seen after their reported deaths. Funny how that is.

"It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
Captain Augustus McCrae

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Yes, and John Wilkes Booth and John Dillinger.
Unfortunately, the sources of history are memory and hearsay. And who sourced the "truth" about their deaths?

What I had in mind was boxing the compass.

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Thx for the spoiler Alert in the Title of this comment...

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What spoilers did the OP reveal? It amazes me when i see posts like this. Why do people read forum boards about movies they haven't seen if they care about spoilers? Does it upset you when you see trailers for movies that you haven't seen also?

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A "spoiler" for something that happened in 1908? He's talking about actual history, not the plot of the film.

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When the film "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" first came out, it was a phenomenal success, and lead to magazine articles, and so forth. Butch was actually Robert LeRoy Parker, and at the time of the film, his sister, Lula Parker Betenson was interviewed in a magazine (Time or Newsweek, I believe), in which she said Parker didn't die, and in fact had come back home and lived anonymously for many years after 1908, when he supposedly died in Bolivia.

Sometime in the mid-70s, a Denver journalist came forward, and stated that he had known Parker's doctor (a lady), that she was a person of great integrity, and that she had told him (the journalist) that she had continued as Parker's doctor until he died of natural causes, sometime in the 1940's (again, I believe that's the approximate time).


Also, at the time of the movie, there were also stories circulating that Harry Longbaugh (Sundance) made it back home, but none had as compelling of a story as that of Parker's return.

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at the time BCSK was filmed (1969) it was widely believed that they had both died in that Bolivian showdown in 1908, in spite of relatives that claimed that Butch at least made it back to the US and lived until the 40's. Also, the Pinkerton firm was never completely satisfied they died and kept the file open.

sometime in the 1990's a forensic scientist and his team went to the reported gravesite and tested numerous bodies there finding no DNA matches to either of their known modern relatives.

so it's been conclusively proved that they weren't killed in that particular shootout and buried in the place reported at the time. The Pinkerton decision was particularly suspicious as I wouldn't put it past them to exhume the bodies for ID. Keep in mind that the 'Pinks' had been undertaking a multi continent very expensive manhunt so they weren't going to give up easily esp when they had a reported burial and big rewards on the line.

My bet is that Butch made it back to the US and probably Sundance too and they decided to keep quiet rather than continue a chase that had been raging for 15 ish years and probably 100k miles already.


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Butch Cassidy is an uncle somewhere along the line, and I'm intrigued by his stories as much as anyone. His sister Lula Betenson claims he died somewhere in the Northwest in 1937. When word got around about her alleged meeting with Butch in 1925, numerous letters were supposedly written to her by people who had seen and/or worked with her brother. But where are these letters? Nobody ever laid eyes on them.

In addition, she claims that a Bolivian by the name of Percy Seibert falsely identified the bodies as Butch and Sundance, in order to repay a debt owed to Butch for saving he and his wife's life on a previous occasion. He allegedly was a friend of the two outlaws.

As far as smfilm's comment about the Bolivian cemetery, I don't know that anything has been conclusively proved. Teams of scientists have tested some of the bodies exhumed from the cemetery, but the problem lies in the fact they don't know how many bodies are actually in the cemetery, because it has been said that the majority of the graves are unmarked.

He is rumored to be buried in Oregon, Wyoming, California, Utah, and Bolivia. In fact, I just visited his supposed grave in the avenues of Salt Lake City, but there is zero evidence to backup that long-standing rumor.

I'd like to think he returned to Wyoming to live out his years, but my guess is that he died in Bolivia as reported. I doubt we will ever know for sure.



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interesting post... by "conclusively proved" I meant simply that the specific story of the shootout and burial next to a specific headstone in the cemetery had been proved false... of course they may have been killed there and buried in a different location away from the suspect tombstone or in a different cemetery entirely...

It just sees to me with such a specific story of burial being incorrect... along with the later US sightings... and Pinkerton's refusal to close it... that with all that smoke there probably is a fire... however as you said, we almost certainly will never know...

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No disrespect intended but did Butch have known children?

So many films, so little time

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none known.... there's a rumour he survived Bolivia, then settled in Oregon and possibly had a family there... every now and then someone claims to be a descendant and it never proves out....

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That's what I thought when another poster claimed to be a descendant. Thanks.

So many films, so little time

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I believe Lula Parker Betenson's assertion that her brother Butch survived and returned from Bolivia. She was, by all accounts, a good woman, and honest. She was widowed after 42 years of marriage, in 1949 and never remarried. She spent many years in public service. She once stated, "He (Butch) would have quit [crime] long before he did if they had let him. But like he told us, when a man gets down, they like to keep him there." Mrs. Betenson passed away at the age of 96 in 2003, standing by her statements about her brother.

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I just barely saw the recent posts and corrected mine. I am related to Butch Cassidy, but I mistakenly typed grandfather instead of uncle. I'm not really sure how far back along the line my relation falls. I'd have to consult my grandmother to be sure. I know they laid it all out at a family reunion in Wyoming a few years back. I guess it doesn't really matter, or if it's anything to really be proud of (he was an outlaw after all), but it definitely is interesting history. You guys are correct. No known children- but who really knows. But he does have lots of relatives, including me, because he was one of thirteen children!

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