Prostitution should be legal. - The Client List (2010) Discussion

[–] dogluver1970 14 years ago

I agree that the benefits are obvious (if it's legal, the gov't can control it, thereby making it safer); and it could be safer in truly regulating routine HIV tests, forced usuage of condoms, issues of age-of-consent laws - stuff like that. However, sometimes we have to be careful of the "slippery slope" legalizing certain things bring to it.

There ARE a percentage of people who don't engage in things that aren't healthy or "good" (let's just say that, in most cases, prostitution isn't a job or activity one should aspire to to engage in, male/female) because they ARE, indeed, illegal. There will always be a black market for those who do, but sometimes society should set boundaries. I'm on the fence on this one...

"Giving $$ and power to gov't is like giving booze & car keys to teenage boys." PJ O'Rourke

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[–] lferrigon-1 14 years ago

I have thought it should be legal for those reasons plus it would be one less thing for the police to have to focus on.

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[–] RobBase086-1 14 years ago

I have to agree since being a former sailor in the Navy. I mean if you want it you can go to Las Vegas to get it at some of the bunny ranches out there and all.

USA UP ALL NIGHT petition! www.petitiononline.com/moviefan/petition.html

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[–] shanx24 13 years ago

Let's make murder legal too. You know, if it's legal, people won't do it.

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[–] Alinos 13 years ago

since when has prostitution hurt anyone.

you may say oh well the husband cheating on his wife. sure he is but he could just as easily be having an affair which is legal

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[–] Ghosthunter123424 13 years ago

Tell that to the Eastern European teenagers who get kidnapped, addicted to heroin and smuggled in every country in the planet to pimped out

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[–] tjdr666999 12 years ago

if prostitution was legal sex trafficing would be severely curtailed. It would be easy to check employees backgrounds, like with every other business. As it is now, the black market for sex has no regulation on whom is participating.

http://bit.ly/keCQKZ

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[–] P-K-One 12 years ago

Tell that to the Eastern European teenagers who get kidnapped, addicted to heroin and smuggled in every country in the planet to pimped out

Thanks for giving the best argument for legalizing prostitution anybody ever heard.

Do you think abducted forced prostitutes would be an issue if prostitution was legal? Do you think that you can staff a brothel that is official and gets controlled by the government on a regular basis with abducted girls who get beaten and abused? That kind of stuff is only possible because prostitution is illegal and the girls have nobody to turn to.

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[–] jwalka 12 years ago

"Do you think abducted forced prostitutes would be an issue if prostitution was legal?"

yes because there are some sick f/cks out there who want to have sex with underage girls and f/ck women on only THEIR terms (abusive sex, no time limit, no teasing, submissive, etc.). One can make the argument that there would be a steep rise in underage abducted prostitutes for sale due to the legalization of legal aged prostitution. Just saying.

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[–] P-K-One 12 years ago

One can make the argument that there would be a steep rise in underage abducted prostitutes for sale due to the legalization of legal aged prostitution. Just saying.

Try to make that argument. I am serious.

Because I do not see a sane way to construct that argument. I really do not. Please, explain it to me. Tell me in a logical A leads to B leads to C argument chain how legalizing prostitution with strict government control could lead to an increase in underage prostitution or forced prostitution.

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[–] P-K-One 12 years ago

Instead of waiting for you to explain how legalizing prostitution could lead to an increase in underage and forced prostitution, I am going to explain to you why you are wrong.

First, we have to divide consumer and supplier bases.

For the consumer base, I am going to pick the different kinds of people who go to prostitutes later and explain how legalized prostitution affects each of them.
For the supplier base I am going to divide into "Legal Brothels", "Illegal Brothels" and "Underage Brothels". Obviously there is no such thing as an "Illegal Brothel" because those things are done on the street corner and the same goes for underage prostitution. But there is an organization behind it. Pimps, smugglers and so on. So when I speak about "Illegal brothels" what I mean is the prostitutes and their organizational structure and not anything as concrete as an actual building.

First, there is no way to mix those 3 types. You obviously can't put underage girls into a legal brothel because the first inspection would get your ass in jail. You also can't put abducted/forced prostitutes into one because again, an inspector might talk with the girl or social workers who visit to talk to the girls might find out and get you arrested. A legal brothel is too official and transparent to contain illegal prostitutes (might work short term but it would come out sooner or later).

So there is really no way that building a legal brothel could increase underage or forced prostitution because it can not contain underage or forced prostitution.

For the next part of my argumentation we have to go to the consumer base. We differentiate between 3 types of Johns.

The first group would visit a prostitute in a legal brothel but would not want to break the law by visiting an illegal prostitution. Those people are completely irrelevant for this discussion because, by the very definition of their characteristics, they do not break the law. If they did not go to an illegal prostitute while prostitution was illegal, they wont go to one when it is legal either.

Then you have those who go to an illegal prostitute but have regular tastes (No children, no violence). The question is, would they go to a legal brothel or would they continue going to illegal brothels. There are reasons for both.
Maybe they have a regular girl and don't want to change that arrangement even if she does not want to work at a legal brothel or they want to save money and an illegal prostitute is cheaper.
But I think the overwhelming majority would change to legal brothels. The advantages are obvious. Doing a woman who visits a doctor regularily, is healthy and disease free in a clean room without breaking the law beats the hell out of doing a pale, sickly crackhead in a a stinking room with the possibility that her pimp is going to come in, beat you up and rob you blind and you can't even go to the cops because you were breaking the law in the first place or getting arrested because you visit an unlicensed prostitute.
So a majority of costumers would shift from illegal to legal brothels, thereby reducing the profit margin of illegal brothels. And we know one thing about organized crime, it's all about the profit margin. If there is no profit in an illegal activity, it dies (You don't see so much alcohol smuggling these days).

Then there is the last type, the sickos. Now, I am no expert on that. As far as I understand, you can't do anything about them. A person who wants to have sex with children will be looking for underage prostitutes, a guy who enjoys beating women will look for a pimp who will allow it. I do not really see how making prostitution legal would affect a person who by the very definition of his character wants to do something illegal.
But, just trying to get into the mindset, I think legalized prostitution could even affect those people in a positive way.
Let's take a person who is looking for underage girls. It is doubtful that a person who is looking for a prepubescent child will settle for anything else. It's not the way it works.
But what about somebody who wants a girl at the brink of puberty, 14 or 15? Well, in a place where prostitution is legal, he might, just to avoid getting into trouble with the law, first check the legal brothels for girls who look young. If you just check a couple of porn sites you will see that there are a lot of girls out there who are 18 but look considerably younger. And maybe that is going to be sufficient. But without legal prostitution that person is already going to break the law by going to a prostitute so the barrier to going to an underage one is lower.
Another factor is accessibility. If there is a high number of illegal prostitutes and somebody goes to them, that brings him into contact with criminal elements who might provide something he would not be able to find otherwise. To make this a little less abstract, I live in Germany where prostitution is legal. In my city there is a brothel at the edge of town and we have no street prostitutes. If I wanted to have sex with an underage girl, I would not know where to find one. In a city with many street prostitutes, you could ask them or their pimps for something younger and "tip" them for the information.

To summarize this lengthy post:
1. I see no way how a legal brothel could increase illegal prostitution
2. By taking away costumers, legal prostitution can reduce the profits and therefore the size of illegal prostitution
3. A person who is interested in an illegal activity might substitute that for a legal activity that does not fit his preferences as much but lets him avoid legal risks

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[–] jwalka 12 years ago

"since when has prostitution hurt anyone."

though I'm neutral to the debate, ^that's a dumb ass argument to make.

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[–] Serchr21 13 years ago

There is something really wrong with you.

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[–] loving1987 13 years ago

Prostitution is legal in Las vegas.

There's a bunch of brothels in Nevadas that's being regulated by the government.

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[–] hockeykev 13 years ago

Actually in Las Vegas, Clark County, it's illegal. I don't recall the exact number, but if a county has a population above a certain number, then they can't have brothels.
But yes, they're legal brothels in Nevada.

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[–] politicon2003 12 years ago

Your logic?

So long as Commercial sex is between two consenting adults (and some times as in the case of the white porno slave trade they are not) it cannot be equated with crimes of violence such as rape or murder where clearly one party (the victim) is not consenting. Regulated and state certified brothels would require frequent medical and safety inspection with legal billing of clients, sales tax and income tax for the the workers and owners. The proceeds to the state could be used for sex education and the expenses of control. The owner and operators of any house that forced its workers to have sex would be automatically charged with rape and engaging in slave commerce for which the punishment would be suitably harsh as would be the case for operating a brothel without certification. Also legal brothels would be confined to well-known and established red light districts. Sex workers on call might require separate regulation with similar guidelines. These are just some of the issues as it is a complex subject. Probably the worst abuse of sex workers an big time tax evasion occurs in places where commercial sex is illegal and, therefore, entirely in control of the underworld and corrupt policing.

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[–] Writer01603 14 years ago

There's no such thing as a prostitute getting caught up in the moment.

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[–] camel-wides 13 years ago

agreed...
and i would think the dozens of other johns she would spread it to before going home would be a concern as well.

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[–] tutorwife93 14 years ago

Here in Australia, it's decriminalized which basically means that it's legal but frowned upon

http://www.fanfiction.net/~tutorwife93

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[–] geoh777 13 years ago

Wherever it is proposed that prostitution should be made legal, there should be a fund set up to pay for all the fallout from the practice of prostitution. (The various health departments have to chase down every case of sexually transmitted disease that comes to their attention in order to find potentially infected persons to prevent an epidemic, medical research has to be done for every strain of STD, there are child care issues, court proceedings deriving from divorces, etc., etc. and all of that costs money. And where does the money come from? Your fellow taxpayers, who you want to pay the costs of your debaucheries.) And all of you bleep who are in favor of prostitution would volunteer to pay a share of it, instead of expecting your non-participating-in-prostitution neighbors pay for it.

I'm talking about a fund that covers only the fallout from actual prostitution, not from bleeps whoring around. In each case, a determination of actual prostitution, or other, would be made so that you prostitution-loving bleeps wouldn't get hit too hard.

No fund set up, no volunteering to pay the costs, then no legalization of prostitution.

Making it illegal makes sense. Economic sense, not to mention moral sense.

You forget, or don't care, that there are people out there who aren't prostitutes and who don't use prostitutes, never have and never will.

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[–] Lakemystery3 13 years ago

I agree with your point that the ensuing departments and agencies would have to be either created or enlarged to do everything you say they need to do. But by legalizing it, it is now subject to being taxed. Use those tax dollars to pay for it.

But also, people who smoke and drink have resulting health issues that need to be paid for. Many (obviously not all) heavy smokers and heavy drinkers might not have health insurance. Are we forcing smokers and drinkers to set up a fund to pay for all the medical problems that arise from alcohol and tobacco?

I understand that prostitution can lead to the spread of disease, but so can second-hand smoke. Again, are smokers and drinkers required to pay into a fund to finance the treatment of these conditions?

_______
"She flattened a Dear John with a John Deere." - Douglas Wambaugh

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[–] jymmylee 13 years ago

I would be careful to draw the line somewhere. Both smokers and drinkers are already paying tax on their fags and liquor. The tax is not used for medical purposes alone. It funds all sort of things just like any government paycheck.

The biggest medical problem is obesity. Should we also tax all fat and overweight people which I believe is the majority of Americans. Then again how fat should you be before you have to pay tax?

What about people who get skin cancer because of spending too much time in the sun. Or the diabetic who consumes too much sugar. Or even motorists who polute the environment and cause more medical problems than smokers and drinkers put together. The exhaust from just 1 car for 24 hours is probably more than what 1,000 smokers can put out in a year.

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[–] Alinos 13 years ago

well one could solve the whole diseases issues by

if someone wanted to use the services they couldn't just walk in off the street drunk one night, first they have to be screened for any diseases and get blacklisted the second they have one, the prositutes would also have monthly tests all paid for by themselves and there clients.

As for the other things surely medican research is already being done to cure all the STD's so prostitution or no that's not a consideration

i believe in the case of porn actresses at least in the states if they already get tested for sexual diseases and get blacklisted if they get something

how does child care come into it at all. simple mandate that anyone who want's to do the gig has to have their tubes tied/vasectomy it's largely a reversible procedure of they want it. and if your saying they have a kid anyways surely like anyone else who has a kid that goes to school/childcare they pay for it themselves

As for the Divorce thing, if there gonna do it with a pro they would've cheated with someone else and the divorce would have happened anyways

one also has to realize that there would be a higher standard involved in legal prositution. If someone goes to the local corner you gonna have 2 bit drug junkie's and whatnot most of them wouldn't pass the screening to actually work as a prostitute.

you would more likely have something more like the escort services and people who run there business out of there own home

not some chick that was out on the streets at 15 and got picked up by a pimp

it's kinda the same for if drugs were legal seeing as by doing so would mean that it would all have to be cooked corectly and with a certain recipe so there wouldn't be anyone trying to cut corners to make it cheaper to produce at less of an effect

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[–] jayjay81 13 years ago

Some people are sooooo r*tarded... (talking about geoh777 here)

Do you really think that there is less prostitution in your country now, only because it is illegal? Ofcourse there isn't. It's one of the basic principles of capitalism (your country's main God) that any demand will be satisfied as long as people are willing to pay for it. People (mainly men) are willing to pay for sex, so there will be enough prostitution to satisfy that demand. Simple as that.

The only thing that keeping it illegal accomplishes is that both prostitutes and johns have to try their best to keep the "transactions" hidden. A lot of times this means back alleys, backseats of cars, or at best seedy motel rooms. As a direct result, hygiene usually leaves a lot to be desired. And THAT does help spread STD's.

If it was legalized and regulated however, prostitutes would be able to rent a working space, where they could have everything necessary for better personal hygiene, as well as protection from violent johns or johns who want to force them to have unprotected sex, making it easier to protect women from forced prostitution, etc., etc.

So actually, making it legal would be beneficial to public health. You claiming the opposite only shows how little you actually know. Do some research (which in your case means reading and memorizing what people much smarter than you have to say on the subject) next time you want to give your opinion on a subject like this, because then, even if you are still wrong, it would still at least be a well-informed opinion.

Before you jump to conclusions, I'm far too much of a germaphobe and a romantic to ever use the services of a prostitute, but that doesn't mean that I'm not intelligent enough to recognize the obvious advantages to legal prostitution. Thankfully I'm from a far more enlightened country where those in power are smart enough to realize this as well.

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[–] paladin69_00 13 years ago

Look at Europe, where it is legal in certain places. They actually do use all sorts of precautions, even using a condom when giving oral. They do have hygiene standards, cleaning up after each john. And they are in buildings that are away from the main streets, but in which they are able to show off the goods and talk to the people looking and negotiate prices for services and whatnot. These buildings are separated by a partition so that someone can't just peek in and see anything, they have to walk around a couple corners to get into the alley or street.

They also do have certain benefits from it being legal over there, and they pay taxes on the money they make from it as well.

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

They also have some of the worst amounts of sex trafficking especially minors because of that, not to mention when you get down to it 99% of the time NO ONE would ever want to be a prostitute unless they were extremely desperate for money, drugs or had been abused to the point where they dont care what happens to their body anymore. You really want people to be displayed in store windows like objects? Its sick, it needs to stop. Keep it illegal and frowned upon. Help the prostitutes get out of their situations, free education, free drug rehab, free safe place to sleep etc. These should be requirements for every person anywhere, and keep persecuting the johns to the fullest extent of the law.

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[–] kpddukpoki 12 years ago

^this (mv5's post)

i'm reading this thread and just shaking my head the whole time on some of you pro prostitution people. my god no wonder god wants to bring down judgement day on us humans. we are pathetic and perverted as a whole.

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[–] timlin-4 12 years ago

God designed those sex organs, and will be sorely angry with those who did not take advantage of them. Repent before it is too late. And shame on you for being or patronizing waitresses, those desperate women forced to do the job of monkeys. It is the Devil's work.

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[–] kpddukpoki 12 years ago

haha you tried to be funny but sounded stupid and failed. awesome job bro!

God did design those sex organs. People get married and use them all the time. Your point? I'm not even going to comment on your other nonsensical rants. just lol.

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[–] P-K-One 12 years ago

Wherever it is proposed that prostitution should be made legal, there should be a fund set up to pay for all the fallout from the practice of prostitution.

LOL

The various health departments have to chase down every case of sexually transmitted disease that comes to their attention in order to find potentially infected persons to prevent an epidemic

The old figure of a condom being 98% safe is a lie. It's far higher. A recent test in Germany showed that only 1 in 14000 condoms has a defect from production. And utilized correctly a condom that is not defective to begin with wont tear in use. So the probability of a condom tearing with a prostitute who really has some experience using it, is basically zero.

But for the fun of it, let's say you have a prostitute who gets tested for STDs weekly and has 16 clients per day (1 every 30 minutes on an 8 hour day) and works 6 days per week. That's 96 clients per week. So even if you use the claimed 98% safety of condoms, the probability to have two condoms tearing in a week is low. The probability that one condom tears, she gets infected from that client and then infects another one before the next test...forget it.

And that little thought experiment is backed up by experience. I have yet to hear of a case of an STD outbreak at the bunny ranch.

medical research has to be done for every strain of STD

Here's a fun fact:

If a prostitute gets a strain of an STD, that strain is already out there and getting researched because if it was not already out there, how could she have gotten it?

So that argument fails so completely as to be nonsensical to any sane person

there are child care issues

Why?

Do you mean like daycare because the prostitute can't take care of her child while she works? Now, that is not something that would e exclusive to prostitution. Every working woman with children needs some kind of daycare so again, that argument fails.

Or do you mean that the children have to be cared for after they have been taken away from their mother? In that case, don't take them away from their mothers. Problem solved.

court proceedings deriving from divorces

Right, because without prostitution people would never get divorced.

I live in Germany where prostitution is legal. And there is a brothel in my city. I have never been there but I drive past it on my way to work. It's a 4 story building. Probably around 25 rooms...in a 60 thousand people city. probably around 15000 married couple in the city, and since the divorce rate is 50% that means that around 75000 of those couples are going to get divorced at some point. Do you really think that those 25 prostitutes are even going to be a blib on the divorce statistics?

Or do you mean that prostitution causes divorces? Well, I would disagree. If a guy goes to a prostitute that marriage is already in trouble. If only sex is lacking, maybe the weekly visit will actually save the marriage. But one thing is certain. In the whole history of humanity no man has ever thought "Damn, I want to bang a hooker...I need to get divorced."

You want to talk about money? Let's talk about money. Prostitution is a estimated to be a 14.6 billion dollar market in the USA right now. At a 35% corporate tax rate that's 5.11 billion dollars of tax money that the country does not get.

Just to compare this to the costs of STD research that you seem to care so much about:
http://www.oar.nih.gov/budget/pdf/2013_OARTransNIHAIDSResearchBudget.p df
The budget of the National Health Institute's office of AIDS research is 3 billion dollars. The corporate tax revenue from legalized prostitution alone would cover the complete national Aids research almost twice.

Making it illegal makes sense. Economic sense, not to mention moral sense.

As I have just sufficiently laid out, it does not make economic sense. Not at all.

And here's why it does not make moral sense. BECAUSE.

My definition of an immoral action is "an action that hurts somebody". Who does prostitution hurt?

Keeping prostitution illegal is an immoral action. It hurts the woman who sees no other way to get food on the table and is exploited and abused by a pimp. It hurts the woman who works as a prostitute, is raped, and can't even press charges because she would be locked up, too (and it hurts the next victim of that rapist). It hurts the woman who does not know how to use a condom properly and gets infected with an STD and does not get tested regularily and all her following clients.

So, no, keeping prostitution illegal does not make moral sense. It is a highly immoral act from every perspective you look at it.

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[–] LaGringa 12 years ago

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Wherever it is proposed that prostitution should be made legal, there should be a fund set up to pay for all the fallout from the practice of prostitution.
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Like a "sin tax"?

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(The various health departments have to chase down every case of sexually transmitted disease that comes to their attention in order to find potentially infected persons to prevent an epidemic, medical research has to be done for every strain of STD, there are child care issues, court proceedings deriving from divorces, etc., etc. and all of that costs money. And where does the money come from? Your fellow taxpayers, who you want to pay the costs of your debaucheries.
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I am sorry, but now you are just sounded crazed! All of the actual economical problems that could arise from legalized prostitution could be curbed by a tax on the company, on the income and on the service... The moral issue is another conversation I am not sure I'd be interested in having with you! ;-)

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The old lie: Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

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[–] Chaseterrier 13 years ago

One thing I do not know understand is why is it legal for people to have a one night stand but if one of the people is getting paid for the one night stand, it is illegal.

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[–] Plague2005 13 years ago

Exactly my question. I've never used Prostitution (well my friend took me to a parlour once abroad but I changed my mind in the end) but I have had many one night stands. Honestly I don't see much difference other than prostitutes cost more.

Not insulting any females here but simply stating the fact that casual sex is not different than paying for sex (other than the obvious financial transaction). The morale situation is the same.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

"One thing I do not know understand is why is it legal for people to have a one night stand but if one of the people is getting paid for the one night stand, it is illegal."

Because if the person actually want to have sex with you then there wouldnt be a need to pay, paying someone means having sex with you would be so lame for them that its a job, as soon as money changes hands and sex is involved, all consent is out the window

"Honestly I don't see much difference other than prostitutes cost more.
Not insulting any females here but simply stating the fact that casual sex is not different than paying for sex (other than the obvious financial transaction). The morale situation is the same. "

Really? No one can actually be this dumb can they? So if a girl pays for a guys dinner and then they happen to sleep together later then he might as well be a prostitute in your eyes?

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

Really? No one can actually be this dumb can they? So if a girl pays for a guys dinner and then they happen to sleep together later then he might as well be a prostitute in your eyes?

In the strict sense, yes.

Because if the person actually want to have sex with you then there wouldnt be a need to pay, paying someone means having sex with you would be so lame for them that its a job, as soon as money changes hands and sex is involved, all consent is out the window

I think I should clarify my point further here. Like I said, I don't have many detail on real life experiences with prostitutes. So my understanding was that the prostitutes or better used word escorts have a choice on whether they want to sleep with the client or not. There's a big difference between forced prostitution where someone (both genders) are forced/compelled to do it with anyone and someone who does it by choosing to. I was talking about the 2nd type here. An escort who chooses to sleep with someone they don't have a problem with additional to a financial transaction is similar to having a one night stand with a stranger that they liked.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

"An escort who chooses to sleep with someone they don't have a problem with additional to a financial transaction is similar to having a one night stand with a stranger that they liked. "

More often then not their "encouraged" aka forced by their managers to engage in that. A lot of them have boyfriends anyways, and its unlikely they would "fall for" with some loser who needs to pay for companionship within hours of meeting the person. Either or prostitution usually isnt talking about the escort trade, thats what the word escort is for, the topic here is prostitution and legality

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

More often then not their "encouraged" aka forced by their managers to engage in that. A lot of them have boyfriends anyways, and its unlikely they would "fall for" with some loser who needs to pay for companionship within hours of meeting the person. Either or prostitution usually isnt talking about the escort trade, thats what the word escort is for, the topic here is prostitution and legality

I wasn't talking about the encouraged/forced prostitution. I believe Escort/Call Girl is a technical term for prostitution. Correct me if I'm wrong. Like I said, I don't have any practical experience other than what I was told by friends. Legally escorts are not expected to have sex so the money paid is for escorting but general understanding is that it involves sex in the end.

My point was only about those who are studying or doing some low paying job and makes some extra cash through escorting. Not those who are forced by their pimps.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

Most have "bosses" which are pimps, they dont keep even half the money they make and a lot of them are forced into sex along with physical abuse and drugs (sometimes forced) to make them stay "addicted" to the job

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

Yes. I don't believe they are the ones I was referring to. Like I said, I was only referring to the people (male and female) who were doing it willingly. Not by force or controlled by someone else but by their own selves.

Take JLH in this movie for instance. She wasn't forced. The money was necessity for her lifestyle. And she kept doing it even when she didn't have to. Another example is the book and TV show of "the secret diary of a call girl". She wasn't doing it because of someone else either. They both made a conscious choice to do it.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

I know but when youre addicted to drugs, owe someone a debt and they give you this option, yes its your choice but your still forced in a way. If youre poor and have to sell yourself (escorts fall under this category) youre still forced in a way, its a job that preys on disadvantaged people. This is why it will never work.
When i was talking about forced drugs i actually meant drugs against their will, which happens all the time mainly with heroin. I dont like to use movies as example because directors for the most part have no clue what goes on in these situations. Of course in movies about women selling themselves (made by men for men) whether it be about strippers, call girls or prostitutes are going for the most part feature girls not completely being forced and seeming like they almost enjoy it, and of course theyre all totally attractive without a trace of druguse. When the reality is the exact opposite.

Anyways the summary is, movies arent reliable, most people in real life do not enjoy it and are only there because theyre poor, addicted to drugs or have been previously abused and dont mind abuse for money because theyve been so desensitized, and i cant think of anyone who would wish for their child to have such a job

Been nice chatting with you by the way, at least were keeping it civil unlike most people on threads

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

Anyways the summary is, movies arent reliable, most people in real life do not enjoy it and are only there because theyre poor, addicted to drugs or have been previously abused and dont mind abuse for money because theyve been so desensitized, and i cant think of anyone who would wish for their child to have such a job

Normally I don't put movies as evidence. But The Secret Diary of a Call Girl tv series was based on the book that was written based on the blog of a Call Girl. And she herself spoke about her reason to be a call girl. And that was simply that she enjoyed sex. She was a doctorate if I'm not mistaken.

Point is, she had options to do various things but her choice was to be a call girl. And there was nothing wrong in that. It was a way of income for her and she did something she enjoyed.

When someone is forced into it or does it without the desire to do it, then it is wrong. But if they fully consent it and does it because they like it and wants to make an income out of it, I don't see anything wrong with that. That's my point. It's not an amoral act when both parties are fully consenting adults.

Been nice chatting with you by the way, at least were keeping it civil unlike most people on threads

Agreed. It's nice to have a civil discussion without resorting to name calling. Thanks for that. :)

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

I would definitely question if that girl had been abused.
Its fine to like sex, if you like it so much you can have it as much as youd like for free. With these occupations you dont always get to choose who you have sex with (if ever)
If you dont care who you have sex with then in my and in most peoples opinions theres something wrong with you mentally (or otheriwse). Usually childhood abuse accounts for this. I have worked with many prostitutes and escorts to get them help (that theyd come to the organization for voluntarily), im only speaking from my experience in canada. I find movies and tv a gross misrepresentation of what goes on

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

From the interviews and her blogs, she said that she was not abused. She really enjoyed sex and she decided to make it an income with her busy schedule doing her PhD. And from what I understand, she chooses her partners. Ofcourse she was a high priced call girl. But she chose whom she wanted to have sex with. They highlighted that in the tv show, book and the blog.

I know it won't be applicable for everyone. But I'm only talking about people like that.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

It would be impossible for all escorts/prostitutes to choose their customers. Customers no matter how gross have someone to pay when they summon these places, whether the person minds having sex with them or not. So unless she wanted to have sex with anyone no matter how gross they were (highly unlikely unless you had some kind of mental problem) unless she got priority over other girls then it would be impossible for her to choose every time (especially when first starting out). And for the most part the girls dont get to choose anything, its the "customer" that chooses it. I say "customer" because it should be completely illegal to buy people sexually or to treat them as slaves/objects to be bought. Plus you cant be a prostitute forever, a lot of brothels kick people out once theyre in their 30s, and then what are you going to do? Real impressive resume. In my whole life not once have i ever met someone who did it because they liked sex. If you like sex you have sex, you dont degrade yourself and have sex with people you wouldnt normally. Its dangerous, its degrading, which is why 99% of the time its addicts, poor people, someone who owes a debt etc. the long and the short of it, the "customers" pick the prostitutes, not the other way around

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

Ok. Seeing how you say you have worked with prostitutes and my knowledge is from my friends' statements which may not be accurate seeing how they would like to make it more than what it is, and from the blog/book/tv show of the real life of a call girl, I may be inaccurate about my point.

But my understanding was that they meet the call girl in a public place and have a chat before they move onto sex. And the girl can always choose not to go ahead. I imagine it's like picking up someone in a bar. So once they do go come to the agreement, they go ahead with it.

Not sure how accurate that is. But that's how I thought it was (for the independent ones who aren't controlled by someone) and that was why I said what I said.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

It would be extremely dangerous to do that without an escort agency or some other kind of protection and someone to care about where you are. The industry is run by men for men using men, women, transexuals and even children. It disturbs me that people are naive enough to say "lets make it legal", decriminalize it for the prostitutes, pimps and johns need to go to jail. Either way its been nice chatting with you, i can tell we pretty much agree on what we're talking about. Tv and movies most of the time are misrepresentations of reality though, and who can blame them? The reality isnt entertaining or enjoyable to watch what so ever. That and most people in the film industry have no clue what living in poverty is like

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

But isn't countries like Netherlands and Singapore have prostitution as legal? From what I've heard, Singapore's government ensures that the red light district gives health care for the prostitutes.

I'm just curious.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

If youre ok with people in display windows like objects for anyone to see, ok with the fact that minors will get through because theyre high in demand, ok with people having to have sex with someone they find completely repulsive, the fact that you cant get a proper std test everytime you have sex with someone (and it takes weeks to get a result), the fact that violence can and will happen even in places with a panic button, and the fact that the people in charge of these things take way more than a deserving amount on other peoples degradation legal or not. Its just something that needs to be abolished altogether. There are cities and towns that dont have a trace of prostitution or homelessness, it is completely possible and both are unnecessary results of the system not working for the poor how it should
All i want is for social programs to fund a total rehab for anyone who has to prostitute themselves, is considering suicide, addicted to hard drugs or someone whos suffered abuse. Give them free school, free rehab, get them a job they dont mind. These things are totally possible and breaking the cycle of poverty and/or drugs in a town makes a huge difference on all the people in it

Sorry bout the run on sentences

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

Really? I don't know the details. I've just heard that it was legal in those places but not aware of how it's run. My friend in Singapore told me that the red light district (prostitute district) gets medical care by the government which I thought was nice seeing how it would protect them from HIV or Herpies.

I have been around the world a bit. I have seen it being a widely known thing in many cities. Like Malaysia for example where prostitution is illegal but almost every hotel has a spa that runs a prostitution centre. Similar thing back in my country as well. I didn't like that because they were more or less being controlled by someone else.

So I found that the independent call girl thing was much better and the way I described it to be in my previous post sounded like almost a pickup of someone from the bar/club. That's what made me think there was nothing wrong in money exchanging hands after a typical one night stand.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

It would be nice but its just biologically impossible to be completely sexually safe when having multiple different partners per day. And good luck making it a requirement for guys to bring papers down every time declaring theyre std free.
In malaysia and other third world countries that you speak of the vast majority of those "prostitutes" are actually children who have been abducted/lured or even sold by their own parents. These kids are usually under 15 when first introduced to lets face it, being raped for money. And after they reach about 25 to 30 and no one wants to pay to rape them anymore, theyre sold as slaves or "workers" somewhere else to "live" if you can call it that and work for the rest of their lives. Theres a very good chance if you know a single guy who is constantly going to thailand over and over (multiple times a year), hes into kids, or at the very least a huge scumbag paying to rape disadvantaged people. Not saying this is the case with EVERY guy going over there (or girl but ive never heard of that). But theres a very good chance, its so great of a chance the government has even started watching for frequent flyers there and busted people caught going for "sex tourism" a euphemism for rape pretty much. Sends a chill down my spine just how many people will completely destroy someones whole life so they can get a few minutes of pleasure, its an uneccessary predator mentality one i would call a form of insanity, just plain lack of evolution and/or a stable environment. Its really along the same lines as killers and animal abusers, factor in the anti social behavior (not that being anti social in itself is bad or an indicator of mental instability but it is for the wrong people, sometimes you can easily see it sometimes its more hidden). Either way its no coincidence that a large percentage of johns are violent. Sorry bout the long response

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

I worked in Malaysia for about an year. While Prostitution is illegal, it is very common to the people there. The collegues who are native there didn't see it as anything other than relaxations. Quite often they go to the spa for that after work and they didn't hide it or anything. I've also known some business meetings held in spa after work. So it's not just desperate people who go for it.

And travelling to Thailand or Singapore from Malaysia is not a difficult issue as well. Thailand trip can be done in ferry so no need of plane tickets and ferry trips are pretty short. Singapore is a bus trip as well. Airline only if you want to spend more.

I didn't think my approach to call girls will work in these countries seeing how they don't approve of sexual relationship before marriage. But in places like UK or USA where sex is not made as a big issue, I thought my understanding of call girl process might work.

Anyways, thanks for the explanation.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

"The collegues who are native there didn't see it as anything other than relaxations."

I dont doubt they were desensitized to it, people can be desensitized to anything, like watching people die or even being raped such as what a lot of "sex workers" go through, the whole massage parlour thing highly disturbs me and we are plauged with them even here in North America. Canada has an F when it comes to sex trafficking (literally it was rated so by the government with the states coming in not much better) and massage parlours are rampant up here, really makes me sick especially because ive met people who have gone through it.
As far as the desensitizing thing goes, its comparable to South American men forcing their sons to go to prostitutes at a young age (they say its to "make him a man" and also to ensure he doesnt turn out homosexual. Quite scarring for the ones that are gay being forced to have sex with a woman)

"So it's not just desperate people who go for it."

I was more talking about over here for those people, in other countries its normal to treat women as second class and is obviously going to be highly liked by men over there to be serviced whenever they feel like it. It used to be like that for us as well, brothels all over the place etc. But we as a society evolved which is why in North America its seen as degrading and a repulsive thing to do (to most people anyways). Thats why the people who do it are, and should be embarassed. Besides why pay for something you can just have for free from someone who actually wants to do it? Im sure anyone whos seen a prostitute will tell you it has no comparison to having sex with someone whos actually in love with you, or at the very least likes you for you enough to do it for free

Been nice chattin with ya as well, also what work did you do in Malaysia?

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

Im sure anyone whos seen a prostitute will tell you it has no comparison to having sex with someone whos actually in love with you, or at the very least likes you for you enough to do it for free

That was my experience the one time I went in with a friend. I couldn't go through with it myself because the excitement wasn't there. The thrill of getting someone to sleep with you was better than the simple act of sex. Atleast it is for me. Paying for it didn't bring that excitement for me. I did find a few girls for casual sex but I didn't exchange money for it.

Been nice chattin with ya as well, also what work did you do in Malaysia?

I'm a software engineer. Went over to KL on a contract assignment for an year.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

Cool, not many people are lucky enough to go to other countries for work. Hope ya had fun

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

It was ok. Had a mixed experience when I was there. Interesting place with a lot of fascinating but the work environment was not as professional as I expected it to be. The people running the office there was my boss' relatives. So I couldn't tell them openly when they were doing things wrong.

And like I said, they were casual about the whole spa and prostitute thing eventhough they were married or in relationships. Not my kind of people.

So my stay was uncomfortable. To simply put it, I thought it was a nice place for vacation but not a good place to live for me.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] mv5 12 years ago

"And like I said, they were casual about the whole spa and prostitute thing eventhough they were married or in relationships. Not my kind of people. "

Ya thats definitely pretty creepy, i dont want our society devolving back into that crap. Other than that im sure there was some good scenary at least, never been there so i cant comment

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[–] Plague2005 12 years ago

Yeah. Malaysia has a lot of famous structures replicated in their own backyard. The Twin Towers (Petronas Twin Towers), London Eye (Eye of Malaysia), Seattle Space Needle (Menara KL Tower) and so on. Like I said, it's a great place for vacationing because you see a lot of stuff there. Traffic is a mess especially in inner-city but outer city has good space to drive.

Language is a bit of a problem too. English is not commonly understood in the streets and local shops so you need to learn the local language Malay as quickly as you can.

<<-- Mess With The Best, Die Like The Rest -->>

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[–] jabberttp 13 years ago

Agreed with the OP...

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[–] xthe_shiznitx 12 years ago

So did Jennifer Love's character have sex with some or all of the clients or did she give them massage and a "happy ending" aka hand-job?

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[–] angloo 13 years ago

You're an idiot. Go away. Grownups are talking here.

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[–] 12 years ago

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