Do you think we'll get more openly gay characters in kids films soon? - ParaNorman (2012) Discussion

[–] cinedragon 12 years ago

If the directors are American, probably not. If they are European (like Chris Butler and Sam fell are) then maybe.

Not to sound rude to Americans, but I don't see them doing stuff like that because of fear what those extremist Christians might say.

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[–] jesus_son 12 years ago

You don't have to apologize for being rude if what you say is the truth. American movies have so much invested in them, they can't afford to cut out a demographic as large as conservative Christians.

When you invest $100 million or more in a movie, you can't afford to offend a group that 90% of Americans at least partly identify themselves with.

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[–] PillowRock 12 years ago

you can't afford to offend a group that 90% of Americans at least partly identify themselves with.

You are massively over-estimating the size of the "religious right". Election results, as well as entertainment ratings / sales, would be *massively* different if that percentage was even remotely in the neighborhood of being accurate.

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

Yeah that's true. I would say maybe 45% percent are moderately conservative, 40% percent moderate liberal and five percent extreme on both sides.

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

I think after gay marriage gets legalized (which should be only in a few years) more directors both American and Europeans living in America will be more willing to put in characters of a different orientation.

I understand there's an investment involved but as an aspiring writer/director myself you've gotta take risks sometimes. People will either see it because they support what it's got to say or they will see it to see what the controversy is all about. Either way asses will be in seats.

And if your marketing team has any sense they will leave the gay aspect of the movie to be a 'surprise' and focus on the other elements of the movie in the marketing.

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[–] jesus_son 12 years ago

Unfortunately, it isn't just you taking the risk so writers and directors aren't the ones that get to make that decision. The studio/investors do. Smaller independent projects have never had a problem convincing investors to invest $2 million or $5 million in a subject considered 'risky'.

However, when a studio like Pixar or Dreamworks commits to tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars to a project, they can't afford for it to fail. Right now, parents won't take their kids to watch openly gay characters. Sure, open minded, progressive parents would, but you and I both know that they are a very small minority of the movie going public.

Writers can write what they want and directors may want to break those doors down, but until gay characters reach a majority acceptance, you won't be seeing them in mainstream children's movies.

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

But that's where TV comes in. If you start on the TV level and gradually build up tolerance and acceptance that way (many of these studios are affiliated with Networks in some way) by the time you do in a mainstream movie it might not be an issue. At a certain you've got decide whether you just want to pander to people's ignorance or push them head in opening up their minds. Isn't that what this artform and business are partially about?

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[–] cinedragon 12 years ago

That could maybe work. In my country (The Netherlands) we have a soap series (which a lot of teens view as well) where there is a gay character. Each year there is the gay parade in Amsterdam (Maybe a bit too extreme for Americans, hahaha). But yes, I do think kids in my country know at a young age about homosexuality.

That doesn't mean there are no homophobes here, but people don't make a big deal out of homosexuality either. Gay marriage is legal here. When Mitch said his line in the movie when I saw it, there were no gasps of surprise...Or laughs, we are used to it I guess, XD

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

In America we have parades all the time, lol.

I think our young people are slowly becoming more open thanks to shows like Glee.

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[–] cinedragon 12 years ago

Oh, how could I forget Glee :P Atleast it proves a little bit that America is becoming more open to it I guess?

I didn't know you guys had parades as well.

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

Oh yeah it's a big to do in big cities with more open minded people like New York and L.A. and Miami. Hell I know there's even some in Georgia, Alabama and Louisiana.

I think it's happening slowly. As much as I dislike Ryan Murphy as an artist I will say he doing some good things by helping people get used to the gay community.

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[–] rcwells86 12 years ago

That's just plain wrong, or people are way to easily persuaded by media if that's true and another subject(Hey let's start pushing other things then like stealing, kidnapping, rape, etc slowly). I really hope homosexual desires do not end up on my kids shows, and I wont let him watch them if they do as many parents wont. All this film did was now make sure to monitor a film before watching it with your kids. "Building up a tolerance" should and does not really seem possible, it's more of a "we will slowly allow it" from a media stand point and then "fully allow it." This does not change the actual view of a viewer at all unless they are ignorant. Companies like to think this, but the same thing happened in the 70's with pot and it was never legalized. I honestly don't get why this is getting pushed so hard as homosexuals are an extreme minority and Hollywood is trying to make it seem like one out of every 2-5 people are gay. Your lucky to meet more than 10 such people in your life-time in my area. It's far from normal and contradicts religion and evolution..

With that said we should respect other people, and I am not one to judge. Just like violence and anything sinful I don't want my kids to watch such things until they can understand it. I could care less what sexual orientation someone is, but I don't want to hear about it(as most settings are in public when this happens and I don't care what you like nor does anyone else, but for some reason homosexual people tend to bring it up blatantly to cause a rise out of people).

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

Well ten percent of the population are black and thirteen of the population are black. Now would it seem pointless to push so hard for black rights in the sixties when they were even more of a minority? A minority should push for their visibility because we do exist. Every one in ten people are gay. And religion is a choice. Sexuality is not.

I do not bring up my sexuality to bring up a rise out of people. I bring up my sexuality when it's pertinent because I'm trying of being treated like we don't exist or aren't important. Gay characters should be in more media especially for young people because homosexuality is not an 'adult topic'. It's a human issue that is not something that should be treated a special case. We see interracial heterosexual relationships in media for kids all the time. Back in the day we would not have but ideas have evolved because now we know that interracial relationships are not 'special cases'. I don't want to have to wait 40 years until young people who are gay, lesbian or gender inbetween to see themselves represented and know they aren't weird or different in a bad way.

As a black gay I feel strongly on it.

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[–] rcwells86 12 years ago

Well ten percent of the population are black and thirteen of the population are black. Now would it seem pointless to push so hard for black rights in the sixties when they were even more of a minority? A minority should push for their visibility because we do exist. Every one in ten people are gay. And religion is a choice. Sexuality is not.

I do not bring up my sexuality to bring up a rise out of people. I bring up my sexuality when it's pertinent because I'm trying of being treated like we don't exist or aren't important. Gay characters should be in more media especially for young people because homosexuality is not an 'adult topic'. It's a human issue that is not something that should be treated a special case. We see interracial heterosexual relationships in media for kids all the time. Back in the day we would not have but ideas have evolved because now we know that interracial relationships are not 'special cases'. I don't want to have to wait 40 years until young people who are gay, lesbian or gender inbetween to see themselves represented and know they aren't weird or different in a bad way.

As a black gay I feel strongly on it.

So? sexuality is not a race, and it is a choice(in-fact there are studies showing it is a choice http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1300464/posts). So not getting your first paragraph. Of course racism is wrong.

Also just because you may not bring it up in odd situations does not mean others do not. I recently worked with a person that went around the office being flamboyant and actually hitting on other guys openly. Luckily he got fired for sexual harassment(he actually smacked a guys ass). A few years ago I worked with a female person who literally brought up the fact she had a girlfriend when you tried to have any conversation with her whether it was related or not. One person simply said they don't want to hear about it, and this individual reported it to HR saying she was being discriminated against.

You have your beliefs and I have mine, I don't want my kids to see it as it is awkward and abnormal. As I said it defies both evolution(or natural reproduction) and Christianity.

No sorry SenaShetani it was to rcwells86 and his(her?) phrase "I really hope homosexual desires do not end up on my kids shows", that made me wonder whether heterosexual desire on the contrary was more ok and why.

I am a male lmao, but no I don't really want my kid to see either at such a young age. There is plenty of time for romance when he is older.

irst off this isn't counted as a kids movie. it's much more than that. that's why it's not rated g. it really has something for everyone. and it's ridiculous to think that christians who are offended by homosexuality are not going to be offended by zombies. those same christians would be shouting around the fire in salem 300 years ago

Why would I be offended by zombies? I watch many shows with undead and play video games that are violent, yet I still believe in Christ as my savior. Watching/playing for entertainment is just that entertainment they are only pixels on a screen..

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John 3:16 : Eternal life through Christ only.

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

Oh now it makes sense. Of course you'd be a male.

Also find research done by an independent source before you come to me.

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[–] rcwells86 12 years ago

What? Some those of those are independent studies listed in the link(multiple in fact)...

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John 3:16 : Eternal life through Christ only.

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[–] mv5 11 years ago

"So? sexuality is not a race, and it is a choice"

so then youre just choosing to be straight?

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[–] rcwells86 11 years ago

Of course.

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John 3:16 : Eternal life through Christ only.

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[–] mv5 11 years ago

So if you have to CHOOSE to be straight that must mean you have homosexual tendencies that youre purposely suppressing? You how your dick gets hard when you see a naked woman, well guess what for some guys that only happens around naked men, its not a choice who or even what your body is attrracted to.

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[–] rcwells86 11 years ago

Well you have your opinion and I have mine :P. No point in going in circles anymore on this thread.

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John 3:16 : Eternal life through Christ only.

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[–] mv5 11 years ago

Thats not my opinion thats a fact, do you have some kind of evidence disputing that? And how can you possibly say you made the choice to be straight?

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[–] rcwells86 11 years ago

Yea few posts above this one I posted a source, there are other sources and studies as well showing the opposite of what you claim. No it is not a fact, if anything it's a hypothesis.

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John 3:16 : Eternal life through Christ only.

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[–] mv5 11 years ago

So you're choosing to be straight yes or no? Your source does not back up your claim, no ones claiming its genetic and theres no way to know anyways because you can lie about being gay which is what a lot of people have done over the years. Do yourself a favor and actually go TALK to openly gay people if you want insight into this, and what about bisexuals

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[–] alucard1-1 11 years ago

by rcwells86 » Fri Aug 31 2012 13:32:42
So? sexuality is not a race, and it is a choice(in-fact there are studies showing it is a choice http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1300464/posts).

You quote a post from the "The Premier Conservative Site on the Net!" and expect accurate, non-biased information? Really? Not to mention from 2004...

While true there isn't a single gay "gene" science has discovered that there is some genetic quality, to homosexuality. Hormone levels in the womb, and birth order also have an effect on having "gay" kids.

Try reading stuff that isn't propaganda:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10405456
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15539346
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8332896
http://news.sciencemag.org/evolution/2012/12/homosexuality-may-start-w omb

Those are just a few...

by rcwells86 » Fri Aug 31 2012 13:32:42
I am a male lmao, but no I don't really want my kid to see either at such a young age. There is plenty of time for romance when he is older.

So you don't want there to be "children's movies" where there are boys with girlfriends, or girls with boyfriends, right? Because there's time for that for when they get much older... right? But that means, no Disney.. because each and every Disney film I can think of has a "romance" aspect to it. (And that's *just* Disney.)

Sleeping Beauty: Princess Aurora and Prince Phillip
Cinderella: Cinderella and Prince Charming
The Little Mermaid: Princess Ariel and Prince Eric
Toy Story: Woody and Bo Peep, Buzz Lightyear and Jesse

Those are sorta "girlie" so.. some of the more "masculine" Disney flicks...
Lion King: Simba and Nala
Aladdin: Aladdin and Princess Jasmine
Tarzan: Tarzan and Jane
Hercules: Hercules and Megara (Meg)

Need I go on here?

Peace

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[–] Miyafan 12 years ago

Why is it that when it comes to homosexuality all that you talk about is homosexual behaviour? Is it more ok to have tons and tons of 'normal' films where boys are obsessed with girls or the other way around?

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

Was that in response to me?

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[–] Miyafan 12 years ago

No sorry SenaShetani it was to rcwells86 and his(her?) phrase "I really hope homosexual desires do not end up on my kids shows", that made me wonder whether heterosexual desire on the contrary was more ok and why.

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

Because they think that's 'normal'. They think because gays don't produce kids that it isn't right. Also they're bible says its wrong. Nevermind that there's a male g-spot and the prostate can induce pleasure.

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[–] ShotgunRex 12 years ago

"Do you think we'll get more openly gay characters in kids films soon?"

Hopefully not. It's disgusting and has no place in kids show. Anyone that thinks so has major problems.

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

No one said they were going to be rimming on screen. I just might be nice to have more representation for what is at least 10% percent of the population if you count the people who haven't come out yet.

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[–] xtrmfury 12 years ago

first off this isn't counted as a kids movie. it's much more than that. that's why it's not rated g. it really has something for everyone. and it's ridiculous to think that christians who are offended by homosexuality are not going to be offended by zombies. those same christians would be shouting around the fire in salem 300 years ago.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] xtrmfury 12 years ago

but to answer the question, yes i think more gay characters will be in these movies. and that's a good thing. paranorman proved that having a gay character come out in the last minute of the movie won't turn children gay. and we know that's a big concern for conservative parents. this movie is about being different, being treated different, etc. and we know conservatives take offense to that. but that's not going to stop film makers from telling stories.

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

I especially hope we get more homosexual and lesbians of color, especially males. Because as a black gay I can't help but pick up on that homosexuality as the media shows it is a primarily white young middle class male's thing.

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[–] xtrmfury 12 years ago

baby steps.

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

I know, I know.

But still it's something that we as a community need to start addressing.

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[–] loralee_87 10 years ago

XTRMFURY-
You don't KNOW that conservative parents are concerned about movies turning their kids gay OR that they take offense to movies about being different or being treated differently. You are ill-informed--HIGHLY. Where do you get your information?

A movie can't make someone gay, XTRMFURY. That statement is nonsensical, at best. And, for your information, conservative parents--and just plain ol' conservatives in general--actually like movies where the underdog wins the day and gets people to understand their point of view.

It might be best if you do some research before you spout off a bunch of OFFAL.

Just some food for thought,

Loralee :)

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[–] playa1 12 years ago

I hope not. Homosexuality has no business being in kids' movies

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[–] SenaShetani 12 years ago

Homosexuality isn't a dirty issue. It's a human issue and gay people are humans. Visability certainly helps when you're an LGBT youth.

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[–] xtrmfury 12 years ago

this wasn't a kids's movie playa1. it wasn't rated g, that's the first hint.

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[–] grindovermatter 12 years ago

The rating really has nothing to do with whether a film is a kids' movie or not, though. The Transformers movies are indisputably for kids, yet they're all rated PG-13.

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Long live the new flesh.
My Top 25: http://www.imdb.com/list/KPl-XW7orjw/

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[–] malkatz 12 years ago

I hope so! Kids who think they may be gay- whether they know the term or not- need to see they're not weird or alone.

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[–] dustbunny105 12 years ago

We can only hope.

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[–] SnapePrince 11 years ago

I hope so. And I hope they will be portrayed like in this film: normal average people, good people that just want to leave in peace like anybody else.

There's too much homphobia in reality to even continue to have homofobic fictional products. I hope they will be more in touch with reality.

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[–] nattybayou85 11 years ago

If they wanted kids and families to see this movie, then the creative team should not have taken political sides. They should have known that it was going to cause a debate between the two political sides. Most animated film companies are bipartisan in their movies but I don't think that the company that released this film is a one of them.

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[–] SnapePrince 11 years ago

Being gay or not is not a "political" thing.

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[–] loralee_87 10 years ago

Snape Prince,
But it is used as a political thing, and you know it.

Just some food for thought,
Peace, Y'all!
Loralee :)

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[–] SnapePrince 10 years ago

Showing a gay character like a natural thing in our world... is showing a reality, not a political thing.

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[–] loralee_87 10 years ago

Perhaps it should not be, but it has become that way. THAT is what I was saying.

Just some food for thought,
Peace, Y'all!
Loralee :)

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[–] 10 years ago

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