MovieChat Forums > La femme du Vème (2011) Discussion > Can anyone explain this film?

Can anyone explain this film?


Just seen it and quite enjoyed it but didn't understand it. Help.

reply

[deleted]

Well I think this is as good an explanation as any I'm likely to get. We did wonder at the end if any of it had really happened. Thanks for your time.

reply

Although he is an unreliable narrator, clearly a lot of the events were real. The only one we know for sure that isn't is Margit and his relationship with her. He killed his neighbor, framed the landlord and kidnapped his daughter. All of which he can't remember but of course he recognizes he is mentally ill and in the end sacrifices his connection to reality to protect his daughter (probably Nathalie as well). At least that's my interpretation.

Decent flick, I liked how so much of it was off screen so you never had that cliche reveal in flashbacks that it was all him.

reply

For maybe the first time in my life. I finished this movie with no definitive understanding. Prophylactic's summary helped quite a bit, making more sense of it than I had. It was not clear to me just how deep his illness was until the end of the movie. Which is most likely the directors intent.. I did not however put together all the dots pointing to Hawkes character imagining the entire story. Up until then I just figured that he was dark and brooding. (more evidence of mental illness) In hindsight, maybe the exchange between Margit and him where he said, "you don't know what they're capable of" and she replied, "you don't know what you are capable of" should have alerted me more. Prophylactics ability to see all the consistancies that point to him existing in a state of confinement make perfect sense to me. Which adequately explains that which I was struggling to understand. Whether for convenience or closure or both. I rally behind this interpretation. Thanks Prophylactic, I almost had to call my mom for her take on it. And she probably hasn't even seen it.

reply

So was Margit just his conscience encouraging him to kill himself to avoid hurting other people in the future, especially those he loves?

It seems I've interpreted the film incorrectly, as I thought he might actually have known Margit from before. I thought he may have actually been responsible for Margit's daughter and husband dying, subsequently he suffers a breakdown and ended up in a mental hospital as a result. Then upon release, he distorted the reality of previous events in order to assuage his guilt over his past actions, that caused Margrit to kill herself. I thought he may have reinvented her as some sort of heroine figure, who gave him solace and understanding to make himself feel empowered and to have control over his life.


However, I guess if if that was the case the mother of his child wouldn't have been so hostile to him. Also, it appears the mother had fled to Paris to get away from him. So it's a flawed theory.

reply

Trying to understand what's real through the eyes of someone who DOES NOT understand reality is like looking at the mirror and trying to figure out if the reflection is really "real". This movie had a nice setting, nice beginning, nice photography and Ethan Hawke although stereotyped with this French connection theme acted pretty well. His French wasn't atrocious - it was a good conversational French with a strong American accent, which is what he's supposed to be. The movie and the way it unraveled at the end was a total mess. I felt like I went on a "is this real or not" journey with a cuckoo person.


(•_•)

can't outrun your own shadow

reply

@ Prodigal Prophylactic:
Your deconstruction is the only explanation that makes any sense. I usually like these kinds of films, but in this case the director's storytelling techniques were far too pedestrian for the subject matter.
As far as I was concerned, the incessant shots through railings, bars, foliage, windows and screens were the big reveal, demonstrating the Ricks character is clearly confined in some institution. The entire Paris adventure is his delusion - a mixture of life memories and fantasies. The hotel owner Sezer is doubtless the governor of the asylum where Ricks is an inmate - Ania is a kind-hearted nurse bringing medications - Omar is a fellow patient at the insane asylum, against whom Ricks harbors homicidal rage - Margit is a reinvention of his murdered wife (or possibly his mother!).
The back-story can probably be unraveled, but I didn't admire the film sufficiently to make the effort.

reply

Thanks for your interpretation of the film; it opens many plot venues and makes the movie more interesting. I can definitely see the main character being in prison from what you noted, and also because the story stressed on him sharing a toilet, which I thought was odd. Initially, I thought that detail didn't matter because in hostels, bathrooms are normally for communal use. However, there was something different about the dynamic between Omar and Ethan Hawke's character. Also, just to add to others' comments about him committing suicide, what if the letter to his daughter was a suicide note?

reply

I apologize for asking the same question but a couple posts were deleted including the one that a lot of people are referring to which is the one written by prophylactic. I really liked this movie but didn't understand it. I thought Ethan Hawke did a great job. To me he played the role of a man beaten down and trying to make a better life for himself. I really didn't even get the idea that he died at the end. I noticed that there were a lot of interesting or artistic photography (eg. showing only one side of his face, or not showing him at all and then he pops up, showing him looking sideways through the bars or the grass,.....). So since I can't read "Prophylactic's" post what are some idea's on what the movie was about. What about the KST character? The polish girl's role? His job, who was Mr. Molde and what was the deal with the blood on the floor? Was Paris a dream - if so why? Did he really kill his daughter, wife and Omar? Someone mentioned something about him getting hit by a train. I remember the polish girl mentioning his "letter" was long for a 6 year old. What was the deal with the girl singing to him and him being so touched by the song? I really loved the movie and usually can figure most or part of what it might be about, but this one totally confuses me. Thanks.

reply

Normally I try to find an explanation for a film I enjoyed watching, even if I felt it was confused or flawed, but I was too disappointed with this to bother trying.

Maybe I have just seen too many better variants of the it-was-all-in-the-mind-or-it-was-all-a-dream-Jacob's-Ladder-Wizard-of-Oz type movies, since to me, this movie had no vision or voice, nowhere to go and nothing to do.

I felt at the 20 minute mark that I had already spent an hour waiting for the story to evolve and at the hour mark waiting for the events to gel, and nothing ever did. It was all completely pointless, and the last scene was just silly and stale.



Revenge is a dish that best goes stale.

reply

yup. cliched.

I live, I love, I slay, and I'm content

reply

I enjoyed this film too, but like a lot of people, I didn't quite understand it. So I bought the book and the following contains SPOILERS! for both.

Firstly, I saw the film with a friend and we both came to entirely opposite conclusions. The murder of the man on the toilet was not explained and I concluded the Ethan Hawke character was having a mental breakdown, murdered the man off screen, and also manifested apparitions of the dead Kristin Scott Thomas writer. She tells him to give everything up and that he can do anything he wants in life. Once he discovers the truth that she is a figment of his imagination he implodes and I concluded at the end he goes to her flat and joins her in death, i.e., he commits suicide. My friend concluded the exact opposite. That the landlord killed the man on the toilet (although he wasn't 100% sure of this) and Ethan gives up everything that is dear to him to become the writer/artist he really wants to be, i.e., he goes to the dead writers flat and begins writing his novel.

The book is slightly different and far more convoluted than the film. There are many more characters for a start - in the film almost all are amalgamated into the Landlord, Sezer. The second half of the book (IMHO) throws out the good interesting set up of the beginning. Both the book and film, I thought, had an interesting plot. How does a completely broke writer, who's lost everything, get by and make a living in a foreign city? He's thrown on the mercy of others. The story has a silly twist of making the Scott Thomas character a ghost to whom only the Ethan Hawke character can see. Once he discovers this she begins to control his life, forcing him to see her twice a week for sex and in return looking out for him by murdering others that get in his way and framing his enemies. The novel is quite clear that the Scott Thomas character killed the man on the toilet. The story ends with the writer having a successful life, but trapped in Paris for ever more, servicing the wants of his mistress ghost.

I think the film is far better because the viewer is left to form their own opinion.

reply

Thanks a lot for the insight. From what you write about the book, I think I like the film more for staying surreal / metaphoric / poetic without going into fantasy.

reply

SPOILERS AGAIN!

Crikey9 - I just saw this a few hours ago and my first conclusion was that he committed suicide at the end. But I also can see your friend's conclusion. Sounds more like what the writer of the novel intended.

Overall, I loved the movie. It reminded me of Mullholland Dr. where it takes a few viewings to come up with a solid conclusion of what happened. I thought Ethan Hawk did a great job of playing a tortured man who has lost everything.

reply

Thank you Crikey9. I just watched this with my husband and enjoyed it a lot, but at one point he was saying "What's going on?" and I said "It's a ghost story." I also felt that it was the ghost who had "taken care of" the demanding neighbor (and somehow also the threat from Cesar). At the same time, since Tom had been mentally ill, clearly there was the option that the woman, and as much more of the story as one wants, was his mad fantasy. I too like the intensity of the ambiguity.

reply

"The novel is quite clear that the Scott Thomas character killed the man on the toilet."
So, the only character who is definitely an imagined character killed Omar? How convenient, why don't criminals just imagine characters who do the crimes for them?

reply

[deleted]

just want to thank everybody who post in this thread

i saw the movie title and thought this may be interesting because of the main actor ethan and actress kristin

after reading about the movie, i have decided not to watch this movie because it sounds like a movie that is confusing and at the end viewers need to form their own opinion

there are too many plots in this - suspense, confusion genre on TV already

of course, that's just me, i'm glad some viewers enjoy this movie

reply

[deleted]

Enjoyed it quite a lot. It's very surreal and mysterious, even though I believe that the mystery resides only with the...woman in the fifth. For me, the writer needed to find a place and someone of comfort, and he imagined the woman to provide some peace of mind. That's exactly the way the movie ends, in full fade to white/bright, which may imply that either he indeed found peace with the letter sent to his daughter, or he took his life to be able to join the woman.
All the other events could have happened one way or another, even though, knowing he had been or was mentally ill, more parts could have been imagined...

reply

What ev. What is this? Nothing.

reply

I think that it is meant for us to empathize with the Ethan Hawke character, more than it is meant to be understood.

I enjoyed it, too, except for the ending.

reply

http://womaninthefifth-movie.com/q-and-a-with-pawel-pawlikowski/

This helps explain the director's intentions. Perhaps fully understanding is less important than absorbing the experience of the film. Very strong acting all round. And I am delightfully mystified.

reply

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!














SPOILERS AHEAD!!!














Author of (one) great novel is suffering from writer's block, loses his mind, turns violent, hurts his family - destroys his marriage and loses his beloved daughter, spends some time in mental institution, goes to France where his (French) wife went, tries to reunite with his daughter, fails, goes through some crazy mental sh*t, gets haunted (and sexually exploited) by (French) ghost, kills a big fella who didn't feel like flushing toilets and tried to blackmail him, makes (French) police officers look like amateurs by blaming the crime on the husband of a girl he was romantically involved with, goes through even more mental sh*t, kidnaps his daughter, lets his daughter go back to her mother, loses his mind completely, comes to conclusion he will never be good father, husband and writer ever again, and, FINALLY, throws himself under a (French) train.


Great cinema. Beautifully done. Loved every single moment of it.

reply

I think there are a few possible theories:

1) KST is a ghost (which seems to be where the book goes)

2) KST is a fantasy figure Hawke creates to help him through his crappy life.

3) Prophylactic's theory that Hawke is imagining all of this from a place of confinement.

4) I have a rather darker off-shoot of Prophylactic's theory: The naturalistic scenes of the forest show Hawke watching (aka stalking) his daughter just before he kills her. The rest of the movie shows his internal struggle while he's in jail/asylum to either come to terms with what he did, or escape further into madness. So first he tries to recast his failed relationship with his family as "dad coming to Paris to live with them" but reality intrudes and we see him cast away from the family and running from the police. It's like a push-and-pull throughout the film of him getting closer to reality and then shrinking back from it. Since he's not ready to admit to himself that he killed his daughter, he "kills" Omar -- but then he "makes" his landlord the killer. He kidnaps his daughter, but instead of killing her this time, he releases her. And at the end he "chooses" madness over reality by joining KST's world.

Having said that, I think the director's point that we should just experience the film rather than trying to "pin it down" is a good one.

reply

I think you've summed it up perfectly. Tracks were running through the entire movie (and bugs, and red) so I think your conclusion is dead on, excuse the pun.

Thank you. Now I can get back to work.

reply

Not really spoilers because your conclusions don't jibe with the confused story line of the movie, which doesn't make sense. That is the only thing that is CLEAR about this movie. It was slow but interesting and I was willing to put up with it until we are told the lover is imaginary. At that point, it is so cliched it's hardly bearable to watch. One twist is maybe OK, but I knew it was going to end badly at that point. After the main character becomes unreliable, you can't trust anything. Whatever else you may think, this device doesn't really work on any artistic or aesthetic level. As a writer who has had his share of time in a mental hospital and broken relationships, I was rather disappointed--worse, upset with this movie. It's exploitive of the viewer's time and trust. And ends with a giant daisy chain of nothing. It's hard to believe movies like this get made. And say whatever you want about undiscerning viewers or consumerist tastes in a consumer society, people vote with their feet and their wallets. Nobody paid any money to see this film and if it weren't for the fact that Netflix has nothing of any value to see, nobody would even watch it now.

reply

Brilliant synopsis, Adam_Skatharakis!

Sounds like a mad depressing film, but I just watched it and found it to be excellent film making, directing, acting, photography. And a great departure from the saturation of formulaic plots and sugar coated endings. My only critique (yet most of is imagined) is the amount of making out, which feels like a French cliché.

reply

i saw it as a mix of the ghost and mrs muir and the mother and the whore, with a splash of french surrealism...probably because these are the movies i most recently watched that resonate with this kind of story, but either way it was the way the film felt to me

reply