MovieChat Forums > Les amours imaginaires (2010) Discussion > was Nicolas truly at fault?

was Nicolas truly at fault?

posted 13 years ago by Laurevarnian
19 replies | jump to latest

Before seeing this movie I had a friend mention to me that he used to find Nils Schneider until seeing he saw Heartbeats, after which he couldn't think of him in the same light due to "the horrible character he plays".
So when I sat down to watch this I was very aware that Nicolas would end up in an antagonising role however by the end I honestly felt that it was Francis and Marie who were the least likable characters. I'll agree that Nicolas was flawed- as are we all- and he certainly didn't handle the situation particularly well, but then had I been in a similar situation I'm not sure I'd have done much better so I can hardly judge. At no point in the film did it imply that Nicolas was aware of the effect he had on his two friends; it wasn't as though he was manipulating the situation for attention but rather, I felt, he was naive to both of their affections and was simply enjoying their company as friends.
Francis and Marie on the other hand came across as ridiculously narcissistic and the entire time I felt that they were merely projecting their own longings into Nicolas' behaviour. The finaly scene when Nicolas attempted to approach them both and do the polite thing only to be shot down in the rudest way imaginable clinched that perception for me. Please understand that this is not a critique; I'm not saying it was the failing of Dolan to givde me this opinion, in fact I would swear blind that was his intention, however given the early review my friend made for me I wonder if perhaps I'm the only one who saw it this way?

[–] Boohaus-627-738754 13 years ago

Well, I agree with you for the most part I think.

They were projecting their affections and romantic feelings onto the Nico character. And in competing against one another they became jealous and bitter with each other and he lost interest in spending time with them because of their jealous fight over him.

I don't think he really understood that he was provoking them in this way--- his mother said repeatedly he was "an airhead" and he didn't seem to try to initiate any kind of romantic encounter with anyone except the one scene where he was drunkety-drunk and had no clue wot he was about.

Perhaps we were both reading the film the wrong way? I dunno.

I applaud the final scene tho, because I think it was sadly realistic--- they were ashamed, angry, hurt and couldn't really face him after the way they had behaved and it had ended between them.
They thot they had loved him, and he spurned their affections. So they wanted nothing at all to do with him.
I don't think it was a nice scene AT ALL--- it made me wince. But it felt real to me, and horribly human.

Perhaps Socrates said it best, "The hottest love has the coldest end."

[–] nomen_meltdown 12 years ago

I just watched this tonight and I kinda feel like the audience is invited to 'project' onto Nico too; I found his sexuality confounding throughout, but I wanted him to be gay, or at least "gay enough" to end up with Francis. And when he wasn't, I felt some of the same sort of spurned resentment as Francis did; but isn't that sort of the point? Other people aren't "guilty" of not reciprocating our attraction or affection, even if we feel that they've accepted it. It raises the question of whether we give of ourselves for the sake of giving, or whether we think we're entitled to something in return.

Frankly I felt a little... indicted, maybe... watching it, because I have a couple of friends that I know, I know I sort of project not just some desire onto, but a desire for them to reciprocate, and though all of that comes from me there's still the occasional sting of exasperation that they aren't giving what I want back. One of em is 'heteroflexible,' (not speculation, he has fooled around with my bf and I once before and he said once that the only reason he hasn't again since is because he has a girlfriend now) and the other says he's done the same (just not with us) but he seems to like the attention he gets from us, while side-stepping rather than accepting any propositions to get all 'physical.'

So as I watched Francis being kind of expectant or demanding of his 'love-object'-- who we're given hints throughout that he's this "air head" who's probably oblivious or innocent about people's affection towards him-- I felt like, who's really the narcissist? It's easy to put that on the "Adonis" character, because we want to believe that if someone who's attractive-- who's widely 'loved'-- doesn't love us back, then it must be because they're self-absorbed, it must be their character flaw.
So I think we're meant to feel some of what Francis & Marie feel, and then reflect on what that says about how we turn unreciprocated love into something to blame our love-objects for.

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[–] phosphorusD200 10 years ago

Frankly I felt a little... indicted, maybe... watching it, because I have a couple of friends that I know, I know I sort of project not just some desire onto, but a desire for them to reciprocate, and though all of that comes from me there's still the occasional sting of exasperation that they aren't giving what I want back. One of em is 'heteroflexible,' (not speculation, he has fooled around with my bf and I once before and he said once that the only reason he hasn't again since is because he has a girlfriend now) and the other says he's done the same (just not with us) but he seems to like the attention he gets from us, while side-stepping rather than accepting any propositions to get all 'physical.'

You and your best friend are not alone in this, as Dolan told Dan Heching:

“Nicolas is a ‘modern heterosexual,’ which is absolutely ambiguous,” Dolan explains. “I just know that a lot of straight guys around the age of 20, after a couple of beers, like to kiss other dudes, ’cause it’s fun, without realizing what it really means.” It would seem Dolan is speaking from painful, if youthful, experience. In any case, these touches give Heartbeats a human vulnerability that’s hard to forget.

Source: http://www.danheching.com/2011/03/not-skipping-a-beat

[–] BlueDweebz 12 years ago

I caught the last 30 odd mins of the film on TV and in my opinion, it seemed like Nico was simply indifferent to their emotions. He’s young and wants to have a good time. When Francis and Marie are rolling on the ground, Nico’s expression says it all. They are acting like children and he can’t be bothered to get involved…the situation is too sticky. He isn’t interested in serious relationships and emotionally, overbearing people. He did not force either of them to love him, so why must he be blamed?

Definitely an interesting film. I’ll watch it in full at a later date.

[–] blacknyellowsquid 12 years ago

Funny how different interpretations of it there are. BlueDweebz is closest to mine.

In my opinion, he totally knew he was leading him on and they were falling for him. I think he found it amusing, flattering. Liked playing with them a little. But yes, when he saw the fight, it was getting too complicated/involved for what he wanted so he bailed.

His responses to them afterwards were cruel, I felt. Saying to the guy "How could you think I was gay?" when he was clearly flirting all along. And he was just cold toward the woman.

And the end I thought clearly demonstrated that he was repeating the cycle over again, and his winking at them indicated this. They see him doing what they did to him to someone else now...they're not as clouded, not taking it personally so they can see it.

However I do agree with some other posts here about the two leads being very flawed and projecting what they wanted on him. I think he can be held accountable for toying with them and leading them on while not really giving a crap about their feelings. However he can't be held accountable for how much they romanticized him, thought he was their soul mate, being in love with him, all that. They both were way too into him lol.

I don't think Nico is evil, but I definitely think he was aware of what was going on and his impact on them.

[–] Violet_Loves_Iliona 12 years ago

Wow, it's as if we watched two different films. I definitely though he deliberately lead them both on, getting off on being wanted and desired and having no intention of ever having it go anywhere.

And, hang on a minute guys, didn't you all see the interviews scenes with the other people Nicolas had done that to in the past? There were lots of the interview scenes interspersed throughout the film, for me they confirmed Nicolas's pattern of seducing people and getting pleasure from watching them chase after him, fight over him, etc. and then dumping them, heartbroken, at the end.

By the end of the film Marie and Francis, at least, moved on and weren't still moping after him though, which I guess was their revenge on him.

It was interesting looking at it your way, though. :)

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[–] dvoulio 12 years ago

Er... correct me if I'm wrong.. but didn't one of the interview-ees talk about a german boyfriend ?

so the interviews weren't about Nico..
( my wife distinctly maintains they were about "deceptions in love " close enough to "amours imaginaires" .. and she's never wrong :-)

[–] Violet_Loves_Iliona 12 years ago

Yes, come to think of it, I think you're right, dvoulio - and I think your wife is dead-on re them being about "deceptions in love"... but I still think they support that Nicolas was deceiving them and getting off on watching them fight over him.

Take care :)

Violet

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[–] grinderVegan765 12 years ago

Hmm he wasn't at fault, I'd be scared off by two lunatics actually fighting for my attention right in front of me too. But at the same time I had very little empathy for Nico, maybe because his character was so confident and care free or maybe because I straight up LOVED Francis and Marie. I think that's the success of the film (in my opinion). Francis and Marie felt like people I'd be friends with, people that I'd always have their back no matter what they did. They acted irrationally and embarrassingly and they were truly at fault for the way their friendship was stretched and for scaring Nicolas off (although there's nothing I hate more than people who don't make it clear what they want), but it felt so real, so human, and I felt so proud when Francis let out that vicious scream at the end of the film. That final scene will stay with me forever because it's something I find so real and cathartic, he couldn't even stand to talk to Nico all he could do was scream at him to get away. Nicolas was not hurt or wounded at the end of the film, he'll just go back to what he always does; seduce and desert people. Francis and Marie were so much more intelligent and special people and the fact that they degraded themselves the way they did just to be with this person who really seemed so shallow and in the grand scheme of their lives was so insignificant is both tragic, realistic, and while cringeworthy throughout the course of the film, ended so satsifyingly. I really loved the film.

if you don't like onions, you're not welcome!

[–] itisso63 12 years ago

I just saw the film on tv.

Francis, Marie and Nico are just being themselves and repeating their life patterns. Francis seems to focus on his rejections by men (the many notches in his bathroom), even though he is really good looking and is able to easily attain sexual partners. Likewise, Marie is also attractive and has also been with other attractive men. Nico appeals to both men and women for different reasons because of his good looks and friendly demeanor. In addition, Nico appears to be a "playboy" who may be sexually flexible.

For Marie and Francis, Nico just happens to possess many qualities that Marie and Francis seek in a romantic partner. Unfortunately, Nico didn't love them back. Marie and Francis took this rejection hard.

I don't want to give away the ending, but Marie and Francis seem like they have been down this path before, and they will keep repeating their patterns until they make internal changes to themselves.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] moviegeek1 11 years ago

Francis and Marie on the other hand came across as ridiculously narcissistic and the entire time I felt that they were merely projecting their own longings into Nicolas' behavior. The finally scene when Nicolas attempted to approach them both and do the polite thing only to be shot down in the rudest way imaginable clinched that perception for me.

I felt the same way about them, but especially about Marie, who I found to be disloyal, for lack of a better word to her friend. But we can't truly blame Nicholas for Francis and Marie's feelings. Although their actions were very human, they clearly saw what they wanted to see with Nicholas, so it's on them. I've been in a similar situation myself. I don't think that their snubbing of "Nico" at the party should be seen as heroic or justified though, as some others seem to suggest. Francis was hurt and bitter because he was rejected and the "scream" was his way of hitting back. Nico gets the message--that their friendship is over--but it's not clear that he truly understands how hurt they are or why.

Sadly, this experience with Nicholas hasn't taught the two of them anything, as they are soon BOTH in pursuit of another good-looking young man at the party.

Sister, when I've raised hell, you'll know it!

[–] phosphorusD200 10 years ago

Niels Schneider talked about Nico in an interview at Cannes:

http://youtu.be/AfwVOEG626Q

The interview is in English. :-)

[–] phosphorusD200 10 years ago

I found another interview, where he talked at length about Nico:

http://toutelaculture.com/cinema/interview-de-niels-schneider-et-monia -chokri-acteurs-du-dernier-film-de-xavier-dolan-les-amours-imaginaires

There he said, that Nicolas likes to be admired. He is unconscious of his charm, he breaks hearts without realizing it. Maybe he refuses to see that. He prefers to live in the world of carefree childhood. (...) When Mary and Francis fight over him in the forest, the evil takes over. He understands, and he does not like it. Basically, he is just the "trophy" for which Mary and Francis fight. He does not feed the duel. What he wants is to be loved by his friends. And when he understands, he is sad. (...) He is childish - and more honest than Marie or Francis. Nico does not play a role, when they both declare their love for him, he answers frankly. On the one hand, he is cruel in his own way, on the other he puts an end to their (false) hopes, he tells them the truth. Why blame him?

[–] PoppyTransfusion 10 years ago

Yes Nicolas was at fault and he senses he is and deals with it by rejecting his suitors in a cold way that annihilates what they have come to believe about him and them. This does not mean that his suitors, such as Frank and Marie, are complete innocents but their role differs entirely. Nicolas is playing a game; they were not.

Movement ends, intent continues;
Intent ends, spirit continues