MovieChat Forums > The Drop (2014) Discussion > (Spoilers) Did Eric Deeds deserve what h...

(Spoilers) Did Eric Deeds deserve what he got?


How favourably you view Bob by the end of the movie is predicated upon whether or not you feel he was justified in shooting Eric Deeds twice in the face. His only possible vindication for this is the belief that had he not killed Deeds, his life was in jeoprady.

Of course we learn that Deeds did not in fact kill 'Happy Days' and so there's no real reason to believe he would have been capable of murder in cold-blood. He struck me as simply a slightly unhinged bully, and by the bar scene it's reasonable to assume he thought he had the measure of Bob and would only need to threaten him to get the money from the safe.

There's no doubt Deeds is a despicable character, but does a man deserve to die for injuring a dog, stealing an umbrella and the implied violence towards a female?

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Kidnapping, extortion, animal abuse, break and entering, threats of murder.

The world's better off without him.

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exactly! He died exactly the way I hoped too. Shot to the throat so he would think about it & not die right away. Then the kill shot eventually. It was beautiful what he said afterward, *beep* punk." We really didn't know what Bob was capable of until he did it. Deeds had no idea who he was messin with. I loved it!

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Not really responding to mike_james27 here, but want to get this in early in the thread.

Lots here are arguing over whether Eric's actions in the final scene justify Bob killing him.

What you forget is that Bob explains to Eric before he pulls out his gun and shoots him without hesitation, is that he never was intimidated by Eric because he knew he was a phony full of hot air who had never killed Richie because he himself killed Richie.

But Marv thought Eric killed Richie and Marv thought Bob was unnerved by Richie. Why did Marv think that? Because Bob acted that way around him.

But Bob was acting that way because he was acting.

Bob set up Eric from the start. He could have stood up to him the first time they had an encounter and scared the hell out of him. In the end it was so clear that the main emotion in Eric was fear. He wasn't angry that Bob didn't open the safe. He was afraid. Only then did it become obvious that fear was the emotion that was always Eric's main feeling. That's why he pretended he killed Richie, fear that if he didn't have a rep like that he wouldn't survive.

But Bob didn't stand up to Eric.

Yes, he gave Eric the $10,000, but he also had a gun hidden. It was a set up. He wanted to kill Eric. He probably hated him for cashing in on killing Richie. Why he may have been stalking him and only 'rescued' Rocco because he knew that Eric had thrown him away.

So debating about the robbery and who drew first and all that is beside the point. The whole thing was orchestrated by Bob. Why he may even have manipulated Marv into sending Eric to rob them. Why else did he act like he was intimidated by Eric when we know he wasn't?

"They never see you coming, do they, Bob?"

"Is it bright where you are? Have the people changed? Does it make you happy you're so strange?"

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I think you got some things wrong here, plus a few things that deserve some additional explanation.

What you forget is that Bob explains to Eric before he pulls out his gun and shoots him without hesitation, is that he never was intimidated by Eric because he knew he was a phony full of hot air who had never killed Richie because he himself killed Richie.

Yes, Bob knew that Eric's claim to being a tough guy (the Richie Wheelan murder) was phony. But as Bob explains to Nadia after killing Eric is that guys like him will never stop bullying and taking from you unless you make them stop. In this regard, Bob was almost certainly more concerned about the substantial ongoing threat that Eric posed to Nadia and Rocco than the threat Eric posed to himself.

What would happen is Bob pulled the gun and told Eric to get out? Eric would kill the dog, hurt Nadia, and might even lay in wait to kill Bob, just to get back at him. You seem to dismiss that this guy broke into Bob's house and put the umbrella in Rocco's crate, a clear threat that he could come in anytime and do whatever he wanted to Rocco, and was committing armed robbery on Bob. You act like just because Eric didn't actually kill Richie that Eric didn't pose any threat to Bob, Rocco, or Nadia, when clearly he did.

But Marv thought Eric killed Richie and Marv thought Bob was unnerved by Richie. Why did Marv think that? Because Bob acted that way around him.

Marv didn't think that Eric killed Richie; Marv knew that Bob killed Richie because Marv ordered Bob to do it. At the very beginning of the film, after the toast in the bar to Richie, Marv talks to Bob about it and says, "and I bet you paid for it, too." This is Marv acknowledging that Bob paid for the drinks because of his sense of responsibility for Richie's murder.

The scene where Marv tells Eric that the whole situation with the dog is making Bob nervous is Marv's way of telling Eric that Bob isn't someone to mess with without saying outright that he knows it was Bob who killed Richie, not Eric.

If you watch the movie again, you'll see that Marv chooses his words carefully and always says that Eric claims to have killed Richie. He never says, "Eric is the guy who killed Richie," like someone who believed Eric's claim would.

But Bob was acting that way because he was acting.

Bob set up Eric from the start. He could have stood up to him the first time they had an encounter and scared the hell out of him.

Maybe that's what you think Bob should've done, but that isn't Bob's way. Bob will do just about anything to avoid confrontation. Everything about Bob says that he wants to lay low and blend into the background. He doesn't act scared of Eric -- his character keeps that wounded monotone expression pretty much all the time, with only subtle variation. Acting all tough to "scare" Eric off is the exact opposite of what Bob would do; that's the type of thing that Eric would do, not Bob.

The fact that Bob doesn't try to scare Eric off isn't an indication that Bob is "setting up" Eric.

Yes, he gave Eric the $10,000, but he also had a gun hidden. It was a set up. He wanted to kill Eric. He probably hated him for cashing in on killing Richie.

What a total misread.

Bob would've been perfectly content to give Eric the money -- in the morning, as agreed, not at the bar -- in exchange for the pet chip registration. In Bob's view, that would be the end of it.

But when Eric fails to show, Bob puts two and two together. He strongly suspects that Marv is going to have someone steal the drop, and he suspects Eric might be that guy. He brings the money, in case he can still do the agreed-to exchange for the chip registration, and he also brings a gun to be ready to deal with the theft of the drop.

How is it possibly a setup when Eric is the one who comes to steal the drop? How on earth did Bob arrange for that?

But when Eric shows up at the bar, with a gun and with Nadia as his captive, and wants to steal the drop, he forces Bob's hand. Bob brought the gun only to use in case he got pushed into that last corner, and Eric did that in a huge way -- refusing to turn over the chip registration (making him a continuing threat to Rocco), kidnapping Nadia (making him a threat to the woman he cares most about), and attempting to steal the drop (which if Bob allowed would mean death from the Chechans), in addition to the obvious threat of pointing a gun at him. Yet this is somehow Bob setting up Eric?

Why he may have been stalking him and only 'rescued' Rocco because he knew that Eric had thrown him away.

Wow. What an invented fantasy to justify your opinion of Bob. Nothing in the film supports this, and everything in the film suggests the opposite of this.

The scene of Bob finding Rocco is Bob just walking by on his way home from the bar. The scene even shows the camera looking at Bob a couple of times from around a corner, suggesting that it is Eric secretly watching Bob discover Rocco, which is necessary from a plot standpoint to justify Eric knowing that Bob found the dog so that he can threaten him later.

What I insinuate from all this is that Eric's plan was for Nadia to find the dog and take care of the dog that he couldn't handle, but Bob found him first.

Your version is just absurd.

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Well said.

I had the same thought about Eric leaving Rocco in that particular trash can on purpose. One way or another it would be a tie to bring Eric back into Nadia's life - he would think that way, anyway.

I also thought that Marv was using Eric to try to bring Bob into the robbery. Bob had served well in the Whelan situation back when. Remember? In the scene right before, Marv tells Eric he might be able to help him. I figured Eric asking for $10k would bring Bob to Marv asking for help. Marv would tell him there's a way he could quickly earn the $10k, i.e. rob the drop for Marv.

Marv had a plastic sheet ready in the trunk. Eric was already doomed, just not in the way Marv had planned.

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Of course not. It was clearly a criminal act by a proven murderer. I'm surprised you should even ask.

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He beat a dog, threw the dog in the trash, stalked you, broke into your house, threatened you, threatened your friend, extorted you for ten thousand dollars, and is robbing you at gun point.

If you add in the fact that if he gave Eric the money the chechens would most likely kill Bob and if he didn't the known mental patient might finish Bob himself. I believe Bob did the right thing.

What we saw is the definition of self defense. What happened to "happy days" is a separate case and though it does say something about Bob's character it does not negate the circumstances during the time of the shooting.

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Not to mention, once Bob drew his gun, Eric reached for his. At that point he had to shoot no matter what.

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>>Not to mention, once Bob drew his gun, Eric reached for his. At that point he had to shoot no matter what.

That's not self defence, is it?

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Yes it is. It was self-defense from the moment that Deeds began to commit armed robbery.

Like the old saying goes, you live by the gun, you die by the gun. He made his choices, and he faced the consequences of his actions.

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>>Yes it is. It was self-defense from the moment that Deeds began to commit armed robbery.

Bob only knew Deeds was armed because Nadja told him. He never threatened Bob with a fire arm and only asked him how much he was willing to pay for Nadja. That falls well short of robbery. It was written that way deliberately.

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He was insisting that Bob open up the safe, to rob the place. And he had a gun. That's armed robbery.

If Bob gave that money away he would have been killed by the Chechens. He had no choice.

Completely justifiable.

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>>If Bob gave that money away he would have been killed by the Chechens. He had no choice.

Of course he had a choice. He could have simply pulled out his gun much earlier and ordered Deeds to take out his gun with the other hand, put it on the bar and kindly leave.

The fact of the matter is he executed Deeds at the end of a long anecdote in which Deeds was merely answering a question put to him. Nadja certainly didn't believe it was justified. Why do you think she was so shocked? She stood there in stunned disbelief and said: "you...you shot him."

Bob never claimed self defence. He said Deeds embarrassed him as a man because of his dress sense and attitude towards animals and women. That's why it was so funny. It was far from entirely justified.

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I think more people tham you would assume, would have shot Deeds in the face after all of that. I certainly would shed no tears if I was in Bob's place. Deeds had it coming. He was a piece of *beep* If some punk broke into my girlfriends/wife's home and forced her to dress up and do things she didn't want her to, that mofo would be dead. The fact that Deeds was stalking him was enough for anyone to fear for their well-being.

Nadja acted surprised because she had no idea Bob was capable of such a thing, and because of the story Bob told about Happy Days. You would be shocked if you though some half retarded/nice guy changed his tune in two seconds and said/did all that. I doubt it had much to do with the fact he shout Deeds when he "supposedly" didn't deserve it.

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Of course he had a choice. He could have simply pulled out his gun much earlier and ordered Deeds to take out his gun with the other hand, put it on the bar and kindly leave.

Yes, he chose the more rational choice that didn't base assumptions on Deeds "kindly" leaving.
The fact of the matter is he executed Deeds at the end of a long anecdote in which Deeds was merely answering a question put to him. Nadja certainly didn't believe it was justified. Why do you think she was so shocked? She stood there in stunned disbelief and said: "you...you shot him."

The fact of the matter was he eliminated a threat that was threatening to two other people's immediate and future lives. You think Nadia was shocked because she didn't think it was justified? How about that she just witnessed a murder by gun out of the blue, and performed by someone she didn't previously fathom capable of such.
Bob never claimed self defence. He said Deeds embarrassed him as a man because of his dress sense and attitude towards animals and women. That's why it was so funny. It was far from entirely justified.

So, Bob has to claim self defense to you? If you do indeed need any indication that he claimed self defense, he reasoned to Nadia that someone like Deeds wouldn't let up and would keep coming back to terrorise.

What's funny is your arguments made just for the sake of arguing.

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>>Yes, he chose the more rational choice that didn't base assumptions on Deeds "kindly" leaving.

Wouldn't you leave if you were disarmed and someone pointed a gun at you? He doesn't even need to bodily throw Deeds out. Just say "I am calling the Chechen gangsters who own this bar."

>>The fact of the matter was he eliminated a threat that was threatening to two other people's immediate and future lives.

There was no immediate threat. Deeds had not even produced a weapon. Eliminating a threat is a pre-emptive strike, not self defence. And that is against the law. Therefore Deeds did not deserve what he got.

>>You think Nadia was shocked because she didn't think it was justified?

Yes. That's also why she was in fear of her own life.

>>How about that she just witnessed a murder by gun out of the blue,

ī€¦ Thanks for proving my point. It was murder. Murder is not justified. Murder out of the blue is shocking because it is not justified.

>>So, Bob has to claim self defense to you?

No. It is evidence as to his mindset.

>>he reasoned to Nadia that someone like Deeds wouldn't let up and would keep coming back to terrorise.

His reasoning is irrelevant to the law.

>>What's funny is your arguments made just for the sake of arguing.

This is a charge frequently levelled at me by those who have weak arguments or are just plain butthurt.

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So predictable, argues line by line just to peddle your bull *beep* . The post (and even the thread) you're replying in doesn't care for context of law and neither is your "opinion" judge & jury.

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>>The post (and even the thread) you're replying in doesn't care for context of law

The OP said how favourably you view Bob by the end of the movie is predicated upon whether or not you feel he was justified in shooting Eric Deeds twice in the face.

Whether I feel he was justified is determined by law so it is perfectly legitimate to respond in that context.

>>and neither is your "opinion" judge & jury.

Not this childish response again. It is my opinion that was asked for and I gave it to the best of my ability.

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The whole crux of your argument seems to be that law = morality, and that everything legal is moral, and one cannot be moral while breaking the law under any context.

I find that position hilariously naive.

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The whole point of law is to protect the rights of everyone. So excuse me for giving a damn about Deeds rights. I am sure "absolutely. He was going to hurt our dog" was right by Bob's own standard, but so what?

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The whole point of law is to protect the rights of everyone. So excuse me for giving a damn about Deeds rights. I am sure "absolutely. He was going to hurt our dog" was right by Bob's own standard, but so what?


NEWSFLASH!!! IT'S A MOVIE!!!

With that said: Either 1. you are the latest TROLL on IMDB this week or 2. You are TOTALLY jaded, stupid even, to even suggest the "whole point of the law is to protect our rights." WRONG...The law is not to protect our rights, at least not in the US, that is.

When you run into a REAL scum bag like Deeds' character and he beats the living hell out of a puppy, tries to rob a bar, breaks into your home, or kicks the snot out of your new lady friend, are you going to sit down with said POS and talk to him about his rights, your personal (skewed) views on how you THINK the law works, and then give him a popsicle and send him on his way? Good luck with that..

If I run into a POS like Deeds? It'll be a different outcome entirely. TOO MANY pieces of crap like him the real world and too many people crying about criminal's "rights" while decent, hardworking people get screwed over. Guys like Deeds don't give one thought about other people, at all. IMHO there is no point in worrying about their "rights" when they're never going to worry about anyone else's anything, like ever.

"What does a man do Walter? A man provides for his family."
-Gustavo Fring

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>>NEWSFLASH!!! IT'S A MOVIE!!!

NEWSFLASH: The real world law also exists in this movie. It is about people operating outside the law and the basis of The Drop's mordant humour.

>>When you run into a REAL scum bag like Deeds' character

But it's not how I would react in the real world that was the context of the OP's question.

>>IMHO there is no point in worrying about their "rights" when they're never going to worry about anyone else's anything, like ever.

Of course there's a point. If it is simply subjective then the justification for an individuals actions can be as wide as they wish. To the extent of killing someone because they are "looking at you in a funny way." And that effects all of society.


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You are confusing morality with law. The Law exists because we don't have perfect understanding of peoples' character and crimes. Bob was a shrewd judge of character and acted to preserve his would-be girlfriend, dog, life and freedom. He tends to be more ethical than everyone around him, though he certainly committed murder for his cousin.

He acted efficiently and ethically but also illegally, and would certainly go to prison or (more likely) be murdered by the Chechens if he chose any other course of action. Deeds should never have agreed to rob a drop bar owned by Chechen gangsters (clearly any threat to "call the Chechen gangsters who own this bar" would not alter his course) and should not have reneged on the original dog chip deal, proving himself to be an ongoing threat unless eliminated. He made it morally necessary to rid the world of himself.

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Totally agree with you. The killing was hardly justifiable and the reasons he gave at the end were pretty ridiculous. The dude was indeed a despicable criminal, but nobody should be killed over that.

Also, i agree, Hardy had other choices available. We know Hardy had the upper hand all along since he is this secret ruthless killer that we discover at the end, which means he was holding the knife by the handle the whole time, he could have disarmed Deed or threatened him at gun point and either delivered him to the Chechens (which would be his death sentence obviously) or not at all, just beat his ass up and throw him on the street threatening to kill him next time, since we all know at the end that Deed was just pretending to be this hardened criminal whereas he was just a nut case with some street cred' complex.


People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefsī²

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actually, yeah he should.
deeds was a scumbag. he beat nadia. he beat the dog. he extorted bob.
screw that dude.

i would rather the world be full of people like bob than full of people like deeds

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Do you really think Eric, a mentally unstable bully, would have "kindly left"?

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Ask him to "kindly leave".

Lmfao dude you live in a fantasy world.

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The old saying is "live by the sword", not gun.

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Deeds did not try to commit armed robbery....then he would have pulled a gun or let Bob know he was armed,which is what any sensible robber would do,pull a gun,I mean....he for some stupid reason did neither. He thought he could just boast on his fake rep as a murderer,which is silly. He tried to bully Bob into giving away a fortune belonging to heavy people. It was not believable.

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>>and is robbing you at gun point.

He wasn't pointing a gun at anyone.

>>What we saw is the definition of self defense.

Who drew first?

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I thought it was 'Glory Days'? not Happy Days...sorry for being pedantic

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I thought it was 'Glory Days'? not Happy Days...sorry for being pedantic.


No, you just paid attention (like myself) and was nice enough to make the correction. I suggested the OP go back and watch the scene...

šŸ˜œ

"What does a man do Walter? A man provides for his family."
-Gustavo Fring

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But Eric wasnĀ“t robbing him at gun point,which is my big hang-up with that scene,apart from the confession. Eric didnĀ“t even pull his gun nor show it,not saying he was armed,just telling Bob to open the safe at 2:00.....and he even left to go to the bathroom and gave the two a chance to conspire. He thought he could hold up a Drop bar owned by chechens with just tough talk? I know thereĀ“s something called underestimation but come on....right?

Also"whereĀ“s Marv? I donĀ“t want him creeping up my back all of a sudden",that line....did he say it to make Marv seem innocent or was that just how his paranoid psycho brain worked?

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I don't agree. In that instance - shooting Deeds - he was justified. I think how you feel after learning he was the one that killed Richie will decide your feelings towards Bob. Frankly, I never saw it coming, though I did think that Bob was not the mild mannered guy he seemed to be. I think he killed Richie for Marv, and Deeds for the dog and the girl. I wouldn't say he is a good person, but he did have good reasons for killing both, in his mind anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Morgana0x

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Aha! Love it! I totally fell for it too! I'm such a sucker. Good thing I like to read tho :-)

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"deserve got nothin to do with it"

THEY SHOOTIN'! ah, i made you look.

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Bob went to great lengths to let the guy walk out of the situation... even went as far as to pay him a large sum of cash. He cleary didn't want to kill him...No one deserves to die.. but I don't know what else he could have done in the situation...

like the song says "ain't no such thing as half way crooks"

Eric wanted to go around living his life pushing what he saw as weaker people around... off a street rep he didn't earn, he just so happened to use it against the wrong guy (who just happened to be the same guy he got his 'rep" from). "Selling wolf tickets."

"I do the work of the devil, I'ma hell of a guy"

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This. Well said.

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[deleted]

Lol returning the umbrella was an act of intimidation, wasn't it? Showing that he was in Bob's house?

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Do you even have to ask???

The minute that Deeds decided to go along with Marv's plan and rob the bar of the "drop money" on Superbowl night, he had sealed his own fate. There was no way Bob would open the safe and gave him the drop money. If he had, he would have signed his own death certificate.

All the other stuff such as the dog, Nadia and Deeds going back on his deal with Bob about the dog certificate, are just added bonus for Bob's decision making process. And they provided an excellent cover for Bob's actions in front of Nadia. Remember, Nadia does not know about the drop money and Bob will never let her know.

I can't believe some people here would think Bob is retarded.(What???!!!) Bob is a wolf/fox in sheep's skin, in a good way.

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>>There was no way Bob would open the safe and gave him the drop money. If he had, he would have signed his own death certificate.

Exactly. So Bob was not acting within the law but to avoid the consequences of illegal activity. It was an execution. At that point Deeds had fallen way short of robbery. He was simply asking Bob how much more he was willing to pay for Nadja as well as the dog. So if you believe in the law, Deeds did not deserve to die. The law is there for everyone's protection.

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Don't forget she actually suggested he was still in "the life" and didn't seem to believe him/or surprised when he replied he wasn't...:-)

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Hi Gary
I'm guessing you're maybe a lawyer? You'd certainly be keen to have a good shot at prosecuting Bob if it came to that. Or defending, perhaps, the late Mr Deeds? Get him back on the street on bail after some less-than-actual-murder incident, so he can continue about his business of intimidation and extortion?

But back at the movie, it had two of the deepest characters I've seen for a long time. Deeds, utterly dangerously crazily bad, and - as Bob said - he'd just keep coming back, you can't give in to him, and you can't change his mind. The telling scene was where Marv asked Deeds what he wanted, and Deeds said (something like) "How the *beep* do I know what I want", and then went on about the need to punish Bob for dissing him. Marv had to back off real quick when Deeds for an instant wondered if Marv too was dissing him. The like of Deeds gets away with stuff for far too long in western society, where by and large we don't know how to confront the sociopathic bully, until eventually he goes "too far" and an innocent life is ended, and finally, belatedly, Justice lumbers in to be served after the fact. Which is why, in movies, audiences applaud Pre-emptive Justice, the strong, instant, and usually lethal removal of a threat before it does any more harm, Clint Eastwood style.

Bob's character was fascinating to see, and his actions totally correct and consistent from the storytelling point of view. There was great glee in the audience where I saw it, at Deeds demise, and Bob's statements both before and after the shooting, which were quite different from any other scene I can recall.

From the legalistic viewpoint, well, the Drop Bar concept was illegal to start with. Here we are not seeing people who are routinely, habitually law-abiding. More law-avoiding. Hence, the appropriate Bob response was exactly as it played out, low profile, make the problem go away, invisibly. The cop seemed to acknowledge the practical limitations of law enforcement, telling Bob "Nobody sees you coming", and I think also acknowledge that Deeds wasn't going to be missed.

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And if you don't believe in the law?

Seriously, what's your issue with this? There's right and wrong, and it has nothing to do with the law.

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Remember, Nadia does not know about the drop money and Bob will never let her know


Of course she knew! Not specifically the term "drop money", but there's no way she doesn't know not only that there was a big amount of money there, but also that said money is dirty!

Simple deduction on her part and it doesn't demand to be a genius. What else would Deed want Hardy to open if not a safe? What else is there in a safe if not money? What kind of big sum of money can a bar own that would be worth killing for and what kind of bar has a safe that opens exactly at 2 AM and has to be closed 30seconds later to prevent 2 silent alarms?

Not to mention Nadia is not stupid, she was Deed's ex-GF and she knows the shady criminal underworld, there's no way she doesn't know there's money there and that this money belongs to the mob.

There was no way Bob would open the safe and gave him the drop money. If he had, he would have signed his own death certificate.


He could just have disarmed him at gun point. There was no obligation to kill him.
Besides, Deed was just a sad pretender in need of attention and with a past of mental illness, he wasn't really dangerous and Hardy knew all along. He could have kicked his ass a long time ago and Deed would have disappeared as quickly as he one day appeared.


People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefsī²

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Except he actually did beat a dog and left it to die.

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True.

People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefsī²

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