That girls parents should stop blaming Lloyd and he should too

If it was another dealer, the parents would hate that guy/girl instead. But it was Lloyd. He prescribed medicines that killed a girl. Whether she could get them elsewhere is irrelevant. He's the supplier. He gets blamed. He did something wrong that resulted in a dead girl- he gets the self-punishment.

I'm not saying the bastard should fry. But he shouldn't be absolved by any means.



Speak louder, Mr. Hart! Fill the room with your intelligence!

reply share

add reply

formatting help

At least he feels responsible, and takes the blame. Most would make excuses. I like that about Lloyd's character.
The last thing I wanna do is hurt you...but that's still on the list.

reply share

add reply

formatting help

[deleted]

Ray’s daughter was only kidnapped and we are fine with him committing MURDER by tossing Damien’s “A” off that roof."

Yes, because as we saw, Damien only ever kidnapped that one girl. It's not like he murdered a dozen or so people (including a US Marshall, and not including the ones that put him in prison to begin with). It's not like he abducted a man and forced him to watch a girl be brutally murdered after giving false hope of a chance to save her. It's not like he taunted and psychologically wounded multiple people out of a mixture of spite and amusement. It's not like he tried to drive a man insane by giving him a Sophie's Choice situation: actively kill a murderer, or kill an innocent girl by inaction. So yes, we can recognize that Ray did something wrong, but nobody's going to feel bad that Damien died.

Lloyd is a fan favorite; I think the fact that he is truly repentant has a lot to do with his popularity.

Well obviously. That's part of what makes the scene where he is forced to confront the parents so emotional. The fact that he is so utterly ashamed and repentant of his actions is why Lloyd fans rally around him. We're not saying "Forgive him because he's my favorite character!" No, it's "look how horrible he feels about it all!"

That being said, I'm not onboard with saying "He feels so bad, so they should forgive him!". These parents lost their child via pills that he sold. Yes, she intentionally OD'd, but it was still using pills he sold her. They're going to want to blame him. However, for me personally? In that situation I would take immense solace in seeing Lloyd's reaction on the porch. The fact that all his precious words and logic have left him, and he can't even move or look them in the eye would tell me how truly horrible he feels about the situation. I would take solace in that fact. I think the reason Lloyd is a fan favorite is because he's that funny, wise-creaking character. He's light-hearted and generally sweet. He's not a malicious individual. So to see him in such a horrible situation makes your heart hurt for him. The only thing you can do as a fan to ease the pain of your favorite character is to wish that the parents would forgive him. To use a great analogy from the series itself, as a fan you're in the exact same situation Lloyd was in at the end of "Seald Fate". You just have to sit and watch it happen knowing there's nothing you can do.

For Lloyd's part, he is at least smart enough to recognize that even if it didn't happen to that one girl, it could have happened to another. That's partly from where his shame stems. And since we're discussing these scenes, I'm giving mad props out to Jimmi Simpson. It was his performance that completely sold that scene (AND the one in Seald Fate).

On the flip side, however, I do think they should be a little forgiving because, as it was stated, the girl intentionally OD'ed to commit suicide. That part isn't Lloyd's fault. She would have found another way to do it without the pills if she didn't have them. The fact that they didn't realize she was that kind of a person puts some amount of blame on them as well. Or more correctly, the fact that she's the type to buy drugs puts some amount of blame on them and the way they raised her. Lloyd may have sold them, but she bought them.

It's a difficult situation, and that's why it was so tense to watch. KUDOS TO THE WRITERS. It's these kinds of scenes that confuse me as to WHY THEY CANCELED THIS GD SHOW!!


********************
A difference of opinion alone does not a troll make.

reply share

add reply

formatting help

I'm late to the party, but I'm a criminal attorney. Lloyd, IRL, would NEVER have been convicted of manslaughter, voluntary, involuntary, or otherwise. Yes, selling prescriptions for controlled substances IS a crime, and it's quite possible that he would have faced jail time for that (depending on the extent of the fraud they could prove, possibly a lot of jail time.) But he never would have faced any homicide or manslaughter charges, and this is why:

He merely sold the girl the drugs (rather, the means to get the drugs.) His behavior is stupid and reckless, but he had no idea what she was going to do with them. Even had he known that she was depressed, doctors are in the position of having to provide potentially dangerous drugs to depressed patients every day (for example, morphine to cancer patients). If the girl had in fact told Lloyd what she was going to do with them, he would have had an obligation to either hospitalize her or alert the authorities, though, granted, that would have put him in a tricky position. But every indication is that Lloyd was as surprised as everyone else. If she had accidentally overdosed b.c., say, he mis-wrote the "prescription" for a lethal amount or carelessly prescribed a drug she was allergic to or interacted w. another drug she was taking, he *might* have faced some other charge, but ultimately the suicide superseded Lloyd's negligence. He wasn't playing Kevorkian here; he didn't "assist" her. He probably wrote the script just thinking she wanted to party, not knowing her true intentions.

Now, script fraud charges ARE a big deal, and in these days of "pill hysteria" he could have easily faced a pretty heavy sentence. Drug laws usually fall under what are called "mandatory sentencing guidelines" which basically means the judge would not have much, if any, discretion to adjust the sentence just because LLoyd was a educated professional and a first-time offender. It's still a bit unlikely that he would have been sentenced to a "max shack," like Rahway; more likely he would have gone to a minimum or medium security institution. He also almost certainly would have lost his license to practice medicine, either permanently or for a certain period (and most likely he would have been required to attend rehab, maintained a "program" like Gambler's Anonymous, & had his prescribing options restricted if he did get his license back.)

But the bottom line is this: however great Lloyd's guilt & the parents' anger, Lloyd is not guilty of anything beyond prescription fraud. Shea's drug dealing probably killed more people, and we know Erica is guilty of five murders even if it can't be proven.

So, I would say--in the final analysis Lloyd is not a murderer, neither legally nor morally. He IS guilty of prescription fraud, and any number of professional and health codes, and would probably be in hot water w. the IRS as well. But the girl's suicide is not his fault & no matter how much "creative lawyering" the prosecution put in, they couldn't make it so.

Well, sorry for writing a novel there. But I just wanted to clarify that although Lloyd can feel guilty all he wants (he IS my favorite character--in fact, this show got me started on a Jimmi-addiction lol) and the character does have a lot to answer for, the fact is he didn't make the girl kill herself bc she was depressed about a breakup. People routinely get less time for second (sometimes even first) degree murder. Manslaughter of any stripe usually maxes out at 12-15 years in most states, and in many states not even that much. So, what with parole & good-time credit, in actuality means a *lot* less.

reply share

add reply

formatting help

It's pretty unrealistic that he would have gotten 25 years for that.

I always thought so too. I just rewatched the pilot, and I think Lloyd might be referring to 25 years as the doubled sentence that Charlie threatened if they went back.

( I realize that your post is 8 months old, but so are all the rest of the few posts here. It makes me sad.)

I understand. Thank you for telling me. -The masked bandit

reply share

add reply

formatting help