MovieChat Forums > Loong Boonmee raleuk chat (2010) Discussion > Pretentious Tripe (and then some) (SPOIL...

Pretentious Tripe (and then some) (SPOILER)


Sometime ago, I made a visit to my hometown’s arthouse cinema to see UNCLE BOONMEE WHO CAN RECALL HIS PAST LIVES, directed by the splendidly-named Apichatpong Weerasethkul. Here are my thoughts.

Now, in discussing this film, the word wanting came very strongly to mind: I was wanting to see something different, I was wanting to be beguiled by a wondrously ethereal treatise of one man’s life, told in a magical, life-affirming fashion, not the ridiculously pretentious and amateurish piece of slop that I got. By the time it was over, I was wanting my money back!

The “story” was told in a sort-of nonlinear series of vignettes that seemed to start initially with Boonmee’s life as a kidney cancer sufferer down on the farm, which primarily consisted of casually racist epithets by Boonmee’s disagreeable sister Jen, but was tediously unremarkable otherwise.

We moved from there into a dinner party sequence on Boonmee’s veranda that soon became a sort-of THIS IS YOUR LIFE of the spirit world, with Boonmee’s dead wife and long-lost son Boonsong (whose fate admittedly provided me with some amusement, much to the annoyance of the packed audience of numpties surrounding me, all of whom were bafflingly rapt in concentration).

It was then that I hoped the film would turn around, but they were cruelly dashed with a sequence in a cave that was agonising in its interminability and pointlessness. It was then that I was wanting to let one off to shake things up a bit, but I hadn’t ate the required amount of baked beans beforehand! However, when it came to the sequence with the Princess and the Catfish – of which everything you might have read is totally true – that also provided one with much amusement…but it was not enough to stop me from wanting to either nod off, tear down the screen in righteous fury, or contemplate a bonfire with all the prints and negatives. I could go on, but I really don’t want to!

Now, some of you will read this, and you may be miffed that I gave no spoiler warning. However, life is such a fleeting pleasure that should not be wasted frivolously. And so, rather than berate me, just remember I saved 113 minutes of your life! Or rather a lifetime, for that was how long it felt like watching it!

In conclusion, we come back to the word wanting: this was a film I was wanting to enjoy, wanting to love like a family member, but was tragically found wanting. ‘nuff said!

Stay sane, stay away!

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I hardly think it's a threat to anyone's sanity.

Nor is it much of a stylistic departure from the director's previous work.

Perhaps, given your firm ideas about what you were 'wanting', and the colossal degree to which this "amateurish piece of slop" was, apparently, a quite fundamentially poor match for those wants, you might have informed yourself a little better about how you were spending your hard-earned cash.

Caveat emptor and all that. Ample warning is out there; AW's work is very widely discussed. Hell, you don't go listening to a new Anal C___ record expecting them to have suddenly started composing for string quartet do you?
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I suppose on a clear day you can see the class struggle from here.

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[deleted]

Slating UNcle Boonmee for being slow is like having a go at Eraserhead for being weird.

Are you really saying that we can't criticize works of art for what they are? If it's the artist's choice/intention to do a certain kind of thing, that automatically exempts said thing from criticism?
Every art product is the result of a thousand choices and the mix of a thousand colours. Each person will respond differently to those choices/colours.

Last watched:
Le Cercle Rouge (The Red Circle) (8/10)
Annie Hall (7/10)

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Hi there

Thanks for the replies. Here’s the best I can do in reply!
I’m glad you took the time to respond, though I should make it clear that I am a far more sophisticated filmgoer than your posts would suggest. I readily admit that I have varying criteria for enjoying a film, ranging from loving it enough to buy it on video to simply enjoying it enough that I never wanted that time back. Certainly I enjoy good multiplex fare (I absolutely love BIG FISH!), but I also enjoy such filmmakers as my hero Pedro Almodovar, Andrzej Wajda, Elem Klimov, Nic Roeg, Kitano Takeshi, Claude Chabrol, Andre Techine, Lars von Trier, to name just some, and can more than hold my own in any discourse of their work. On to the other points...

CitrusWithFuschiaTrim - I am fully aware of what Caveat Emptor means (in spite of my poor ‘education’), and I absolutely acknowledge that I was hitherto unfamiliar with Mr. Weerasethakul’s work. Mea Culpa! However, in my defence, I put it to you that you must surely be aware that UNCLE BOONMEE... has had an UNBELIEVABLE degree of hype for an arthouse film: it’s been lauded with awards aplenty (including the Palme d’Or and will alas probably bag the Oscar) and you can’t read cinema reviews in even regional newspapers without the reviewers falling over themselves in praise of it. Hell, Stevie Wonder couldn’t miss it! Naturally, when a film like that comes to town, you can bet I’ll be there. Also, like any self-respecting filmgoer, I try not to know too much about a film, in order to not to ruin it for myself and that’s worked many more times to my advantage than it hasn’t, the latter being the case here, IMHO.

chippy_purdsta: no, I didn’t just say BOONMEE was slow, I said it was slow, pretentious, amateurish and ridiculous. I did indeed enjoy Burton’s ‘mainstream’ BIG FISH for the qualities you say, but – as one attracted to unconventional tales of everyman – I wanted to see how others did it. After all, it isn’t as if they’re being made left, right and centre. So I went in with the highest of expectations, only to have them dashed. Ah well, that’s showbiz!

If this is a place where admirers of UNCLE BOONMEE can extol its virtues, then surely it is also a place where detractors like me can air their views too?

Your turn!

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If I gave the impression I thought you were unsophisticated in some way I assure you I'm the least film-literate person on the planet, and wouldn't presume to be capable of judging such things. Also, I strongly agree on at least one thing: I prefer to know as little as possible about a film beforehand, to the extent that I avoid trailers and read reviews very cautiously. Admittedly, it can be problematic.

It was mostly the phrase "amateurish piece of slop" that struck me. That suggests that you saw those potentially trying/irritating/confusing aspects of the film to be failures of execution. Aspects that a more technically proficient film-maker would have done right perhaps.

Whereas many of those very same aspects — the disjointedness, the ambiguity of it all, the glacial pace — tend to be central to the appeal of the man's films. In other words, while they're kinda odd (let's face it), I suspect he knows precisely the effect he's aiming for in his films and mostly achieves the 'correct' result, on his own terms.

To put it another way, I had the sense that you were judging his unconventional artistic choices to be indicative of mere incompetence, which seems off the mark. Certainly you should be able to say you didn't like it. And that obviously doesn't make you any better or worse than someone who did like it. Just, I suspect, someone who doesn't enjoy his shtick. Which is totally cool, so long as we're not just judging him on his willingness or otherwise to emulate someone else's shtick that we'd prefer instead.

Or something. LOL.
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I suppose on a clear day you can see the class struggle from here.

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No, you listen to an Anal C___ record expecting to shoot yourself.

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Whatever you want to say to the OP, don't bother. Check out (his?) other posts first. It's not worth it.

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I felt absolutely the same about the movie... Only, who am I to judge opposite to Cannes' Jury. Must be I misunderstood something...

Yet, few days earlier I watched Des hommes et des dieux (2010)... Yes, it's slow, too, but brilliant. So is Sonbahar (2008), Der Himmel über Berlin (1987), Stellet licht (2007)... the first few that came to my mind, among many others.

Anyway, I didn't like Entre les murs (2008) and Das weisse Band (2009) either, which makes such three consecutive Palme d'or winners.

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[deleted]

I take it from you asking that you saw it too and came to the same conclusion?

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[deleted]

Read my second missive here carefully and wonder no more!

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[deleted]

Ah, where do I begin here? If you’re going to question my intellect, then I must call into question your reading/comprehension abilities, as it quite clearly states why I did so, but you clearly have more of an axe to grind with intellectuals, as this somehow led you to miss what I was saying. Read it again.

Incidentally, I don’t know what to make of your presumption that I am an intellectual. I suppose I should feel honoured, as I am in all seriousness a multiply-disabled person (including mentally) who requires a great deal of support to live my life and someone least likely to be called intellectual. Your reply will provide my care staff with considerable amusement!

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[deleted]

No, you didn’t say that I was, but the tone you took with your last post to me very strongly suggested that you could stand some education as to what sort of person I truly am – IE, not an intellectual. Secondly, you should know that, in spite of my various conditions, I hold down a job and I personally pay for my support needs out of my own pocket so, no, you don’t need to cut me any slack whatsoever. Indeed, I would be offended otherwise. Nor do I feel, as you seem to, that my opinion is more important than anyone else’s – but I emphatically claim my democratic right to express them with a joy in my heart. One of a free society’s pleasures, don't you think?

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[deleted]

My disabilities are not my prejudices, as you put it. I live them 24/7. And no, no, thousand times no: I absolutely do not feel my opinion more important than anyone else’s, but I think I have the right to express it, which the good people of the IMDB and many other web forums do. I certainly don’t care as much for the importance of my opinions as much as you appear to be keen on acting high-handed whilst not bothering to fully read what I wrote. Against such a person I can only throw up my hands in surrender. You win.

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[deleted]

No film is above criticism, but some criticism is just not valid. I could understand if you had problems with the film's subject matter, tone, pace etc, but to call it amateurish is inane.

This filmmaker is a master of his craft. His control is phenomenal and his films are highly praised by audiences and critics. He is no amateur, and if you think that, you'd better provide a little bit more of an argument in support of that statement if you are going to throw it out there.

I am not sure how you came to the conclusion that this film seemed as though it were made my an amateur when most others thought just the opposite.

What about the film caused you to feel that way? It is not clear from your 'review'. You told us that it did not meet your expectations. Surely you decided what the film should have been about based upon the title and you formed your own image of what the film would be. Its a shame that this film did not meet the standards of the fantasy world you constructed in your head after reading the title.

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You told us that it did not meet your expectations


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There in lies the fundamental core problem with a majority of American movie going audiences. Now, please know that I am not referring to the original poster of this thread, but at the same time to call a film amateurish because it did not meet your personal expectations is completely arrogant and at the same time ignorant.

Arrogance is a quality that is seemingly plaguing American audiences nationwide. Now, please know that I am not referring to the original poster, but as I said this film is clearly not amateurish. Audiences have the tendency to read a high praising review or see a trailer before going in and expecting something entirely different than what they are actually getting.

Now, it is up to the viewer to decide how much research he or she is going to do before going in and seeing a film such as this. Granted by viewing the trailer, one could surmise that this film in particular is not going to be for everyone. The trailer eludes to the slow and open cinematic experience that one will get when viewing the film. One could even go as far as surmising that films from Asian countries are clearly not going to have the same pace as American films, which is also definitive of reading reviews and seeing trailers of course, mind you.

This film in my personal opinion is a remarkable piece of work that is both open in cinema and personal at the same time, depending on how one views it and takes it.

Now, feel free to call my opinion *beep*

[inject cathexis]

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I came here for a film review, but stayed for the free english class instead. Wow, you college boys sure talk fancy. Way too many big words and phrases for me.

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Me? A College Boy? If only I were...

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Nearly every film is pretentious, saying a film is pretentious is stating the obvious.

Boonmee’s life as a kidney cancer sufferer
dialysis...
long-lost son Boonsong (whose fate admittedly provided me with some amusement
Boonsong's metamorphosis into a human-size forest monkey symbolically refers to the insurgent guerrillas of the Thai civil war. I fully understand why Boonsong's physical appearance is amusing (I chuckled too), but instead of thinking to myself, "now that costume is way too campy and junky, director's stupid and the film's ruined), I thought to myself, "I need to stop chuckling and thinking about the costume because Boonsong is about to explain his demise", and through his explanation, I realized that monkey ghosts were more than just an archetypical myth, they had become a social code word for the communist guerrillas (guerrillas: gorillas!). Guerillas - comprising impoverished villagers and other neglected minorities - who kidnapped village boys and young men, forcing them to join the insurgency and fight. Guerillas who also fled into the forests and mountain bases of Thailand when the government soldiers began raping and slaughtering villagers in retaliation against the communist insurgency (Laotian Civil War).

All of these husbands and fathers, brothers and sons, uncles and cousins and nephews, vanishing into the forests and mountains, many never returning. The little boys, enthralled by ghost monkey folk tales, and intuitively making the connection between the ghost monkeys in the forest and their fathers and brothers and grandfathers, et al, lost forever in the forests.

Boonsong the child, lured into the forests by monkey ghost tales, lured by the myth of the "evil" communist insurgents hiding in the forests, perhaps lured by a desire to learn about the people his father killed, people just like his father, Boonsong breaks away and re-discovers and integrates himself into the myths of Thailand's collective past, becoming a guerilla ghost.

Boonsong, and Boonmee, and Weerasethakul, and We The Viewers, moulding our own instinctive responses to external concepts that remain beyond the grasp of logic.

And the amusing costume? It obviously has cultural meaning for Weerasethakul within his own frame of reference otherwise he would not have chosen it ('obviously' because the man is an artist, not a Troma film director), perhaps Weerasethakul's point of the amusing monkey costume being that the 21st century has replaced collective imageries of mythology and folklore (among other things....) that are common to the human spirit and represent the wisdom of mankind (by which mankind has weathered millenia...) with cheap campy creations like Planet of the Apes.
all of whom were bafflingly rapt in concentration
Baffled because people were rapt in concentration in order to hear Boonsong's gently susurrating monologue?! Attacking people for making a concerted effort to hear quietly murmured dialogue.....?!
It was then that I hoped the film would turn around, but they were cruelly dashed with a sequence in a cave
Huh? The cave sequence was towards the end of the film. After the dinner scene is the catfish and the princess scene.
However, when it came to the sequence with the Princess and the Catfish
What? this scene is not after the cave scene, it occurs before the cave scene.

When you think something is incomprehensible, try and understand it, the creator's intellect, and passion, and mystery. To label it incoherent or sloppy or pretentious or amateurish is not only a semantical mistake but an act of intellectual cowardice and intellectual death.

Take whatever you want out of this. Learn whatever you want out of this. Ignore whatever you want out of this. I suspect the response will fall back on a personal attack, so consider this your one chance to extract something of meaning from one of the most brilliant films of 2010 (tied with Film Socialisme and Kosmos) and one of the most important films and filmmakers to grace the world of cinema (as is the criminally ignored Reha Erdem, and of course Jean-Luc G-dard, the directors of the aforementioned films).

And what about nonlinear events and the slowness of time? Like many directors, Weerasethakul kicks linear notions of time and place to the curb, and he merges together formalized film structure with [abstract] Buddhist concepts. Boonmee (and later, Tong as a monk initiate) slipped out of his Self into a thousand different forms. He became everything in his midst, animal, forest, water, quartz, cave, tree, princess, catfish, bugs, and each time he reawakens. Although the paths took him away from Self, in the end they always lead him back to his Self. Like Gautama Siddharta, Boonmee remembered his former lives and possessed great wisdom and emptied himself of his hungers, desires, dreams, pleasures, sorrows, finally attaining Nirvana, no longer plunging into the troubled stream of forms. But Tong, will that be his fate? Tong simultaneously walking out of the hotel room to satisfy the illusions of his senses while remaining within the room, eyes glued to the television set to satisfy the illusions of his senses, committing both actions at the same time: trapped in the cycle to satisfy hunger, desires, dreams, pleasure, sorrows, etc, and while trapped, becoming spiritually empty, the illusions of the senses vanquishing his spirit, something that is happening to all of humankind, something that Weerasethakul is lamenting, the Boonmees have rapidly becoming a myth while the Tongs have rapidly become the reality. And simultaneously walking out of the hotel room while remaining within it: we are neither here nor there and we are everywhere and nowhere. Our thought processes, our myths and philosophies and religions and values, everything that humankind needs to heal itself and re-connect itself to the cosmos (represented by Boonmee's end-of-life journey...) are all things that defy and shatter linear form and logic, and they are under direct attack from the linear logic of the sterile technological, industrial, materialistic, capitalistic age (represented by the life Jen leads, and the life Tong is choosing) that we currently live in.

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Whoa. Now there's some food for thought.

And it looks like I'll be tracking down this Kosmos film as well.
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I suppose on a clear day you can see the class struggle from here.

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Hi there



Thanks for the mail, but you thought wrong. Personal attacks are not my stock-in-trade, unless the OP makes it so. I would like to reply to your mail but, before I do and hope you don’t mind me asking, would you tell me if you come from Thailand or have strong personal links there? I’d be grateful for knowing this before I reply.

Cheers and best regards.

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Reply exactly how you want, without restraint.

The reply is for all readers, and has the potential to delight or offend anyone reading.

Articulate anything and everything you want to articulate.

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@project - here's a thread I just started for the film, as an expat living in Thailand. To know a little bit about how the Thais handle everyday notions of ghosts, potential magic, and the assumed reality of reincarnation will help in understanding the film more -

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1588895/board/nest/184207339

Please nest your IMDB page, so you respond to the correct person.

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<i>Guerillas - comprising impoverished villagers and other neglected minorities - who kidnapped village boys and young men, forcing them to join the insurgency and fight.</i>

Thank you. I think you just gave me the clue I needed as to why AW recast Sakda Kaewbuadee from <i>Sud Pralad</i> with the same character name. That (along with trying to puzzle out the final sequence) was one of the questions I wanted to get an answer to before reviewing it...

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"the splendidly named Apichatpong Weerasethakul" "the word wanting came to mind, I was wanting to be beguiled by a wondrously ethereal treatise of one man's life, told in a magical, life-affirming fashion"

This is ridiculous.

"racist epithets", "tediously unremarkable", "packed audience of numpties surrounding me, all of whom were bafflingly rapt in concentration", "cruelly dashed", "It was then that I was wanting to let one off to shake things up a bit, but I hadn't ate the required amount of baked beans beforehand"

Seriously, who is this guy...most ironic post I've ever seen.

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Posts like his make me want to see this movie even more. Add some adjectives as "pretentious" "boring" and its a winner for me. They said the same about Reygadas, the same about Godard, the same about Haneke and low and behold i love all these directors more than any Hollywood darlings. Arthouse isn't for everyone i guess...

"Cinema is the most beautiful fraud in the world."

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i love Reygadas, I'll have you know!

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I'm kind of in-between you and Tim Burton's opinion on the film: no, it's not Palm D'or worthy. The scene at the cave and the walk up to it is just overlong (and I'm a very patient viewer, I even liked most of the director's use of long-takes without cutting), and near the end it gets longer with the scene in the motel room, though it has an interesting pay-off. A lot of the film was mesmerizing for me, I LOVED the princess/catfish story, and all of those shots of the monkey men (though repetitve) did their job well... so the movie is a mix of really wonderful, meditative visuals and boredom.



My official blog: http://cinetarium.blogspot.com/

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