MovieChat Forums > Katherine of Alexandria (2014) Discussion > More made-up 'history' touted as fact

More made-up 'history' touted as fact


Even the Catholic Encyclopaedia believes that St Catherine never existed. Scholars have pointed out that her myth resembles that of Hypatia of Alexandria who was brutally murdered by a Christian mob. Her murder sent shock waves through the Roman world, and to me (and others) it marked the beginning of the Dark Ages. Just as they Christianised European pagan gods with saints, they created a saint in an attempt to erase the memory of Hypatia, who commanded much respect throughout the Roman world. By all means go to see movies, but also read books for your facts. In Britain we have a lot of young people who believe that the D-Day landings were carried out by the Americans alone, a 'fact' they gleaned from Saving Private Ryan that does not include the part played by British, French, Canadians, Polish and many other nationalities. Go to the source materials for your facts on the early church, and discover how brutal it was, and how the various early Christian sects were wiped out by the most violent one - the Roman Church.

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Actually, it's believe that she was inspired by a Christian woman of Alexandria, whom St. Eusibius wrote about. And although the Catholic Church did take her Feast Day out of the Calendar in the '60s, it reinstated it in the '90s.

The Catholic Church never said that she did not exist. Just admitted there was little information on her.

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Ah yes, Eusebius (that's the correct spelling) - what a reliable source he was, and the main source of the early history of the church. He said of his travels into Africa that he saw people with no head and an eye in the middle of their chest. He evidently wasn't past bending the truth somewhat.

If you've studied ancient history you would know that you have to look at the writer's bias and take everything with a pinch of salt. Even today it is difficult to write objective history, but it is attempted far more now than in the past. The truth is that the Roman Christian thugs murdered the philosophers and priests throughout the ancient world and destroyed their written works, plunging Europe into the dark ages. Christianity has been a tragedy for Europe with its pack of lies, and subsequently for the New World too.

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Actually no. Christianity was a persecuted religion, within the first few hundred years of its existence. Yes, there were Christian religious fanatics, but, there were fanatics from other religious & non religious groups too. Socrates was also murdered, but, not by Christians.

And contrary to the movie about Hypatia, it wasn't Christians who destroyed the museum of Alexandria. It was Muslim invaders in 642 AD.


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It wasnt muslim invaders, don't lie

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It wasn't muslim invaders, don't lie


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Destruction

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Your link says:

'Possible occasions for the partial or complete destruction of the Library of Alexandria include a fire set by Julius Caesar in 48 BC, an attack by Aurelian in the 270s AD, the decree of Coptic Pope Theophilus in 391, and the Muslim conquest of Egypt in 642.'

The first mention of a muslims destruction is a 9th century Arabic book. No sources given, no earlier mention. A Roman destruction is accepted by most historians.

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That's cool. Okay, how 'bout this link then...?

http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm




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That link you just gave PROVED it wasn't muslims...

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Okay, how 'bout these links then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_Alexandria #Muslim_conquest_of_Egypt

http://islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&a mp;id=370%3Adid-caliph


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Try a few more links. You'll eventually stumble on something definitive. Eventually.

If you think the Bible is the greatest fairy tale in history, use this as your signature.

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Christianity was a persecuted religion, within the first few hundred years of its existence.


Actually, Christianity was persecuted only for short periods of time in its first 300 years of existence.

Socrates was also murdered, but, not by Christians.


Socrates was executed for political reasons. About 400 years before Jesus was supposedly born. So, what does that prove? Or is it just something you've read on a Christian propaganda site to parrot on internet forums?

And contrary to the movie about Hypatia, it wasn't Christians who destroyed the museum of Alexandria. It was Muslim invaders in 642 AD.


Actually, nobody knows for sure who had destroyed the great library. Caesar, Aurelian and the Muslims have all been implicated, though only the extremely objective Muslim-Watch is certain that it were the Muslims. And, btw, a great deal of the ancient texts available to us today we only have thanks to the fact the Muslims had preserved A LOT of ancient texts.

Texts that were being systematically destroyed by Christians, at the time, only to be rediscovered in Arabic in the 12th century AD.

In the movie, what was destroyed was the library of the Serapetum, not the great library. This is actually historically true, and in accord with the scholarly consensus on the matter.

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History can be lost and faith can be perverted but Wisdom always prevails. Wisdom was the feminine aspect of God that was there with Him when he created the world (Prov.8.30). What we learn from the stories of Hypatia and Catherine is that histories can be burned and faith can be corrupted into a twisted thing that kills but Wisdom is eternal. You have some very basic facts here and what you choose to do with them is completely left to your imagination. Hypatia and Catherine's converging stories mean something to me about the convergence of intellect and love/faith. I feel blessed that even though history is lost the two stories are still active enough to inspire controversy but it seems foolish to keep them split and cause more anger and misunderstanding. It's the anger and misunderstanding that persecutes the faithful and burns libraries. Maybe they really are the same person in the symbolic sense. I feel like you are symbolically tearing them/her apart in the same way the stories have her body torn apart. Whether God gives us these messages from above or whether they are part of humanity's shared and imperfect memory it seems to me the fact that the story survives makes it significant enough to look for constructive meaning.

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Actually, Christianity was persecuted only for short periods of time in its first 300 years of existence.


This is not true at all. Christians were the most systematically persecuted group for several hundred years of the roman empire.

And Catherine myth did not arise from the Hypathia story (which is itself 90% myth/composite as well).

And there were outright genocides of Christians in a lot especially in North Africa, and throughout the empire beginning with nero though diocletian which was a period of a couple hundred years. There are academic estimates of about 1.5 million Christians killed, which 20th century population statistics would be several times the holocaust

Like Jews and Pagans Christians were mercilessly and broadly persecuted when in the minority, and like Jews, Pagans and Muslims, committed persecution when in the majority.

The OP's is hopelessly ignorant of actual history of mass persecution. And the Historians agree the Catherine story is most likely a composite of several notable Christian women who actually were murdered. Composite archtypes don't nullify history. We know King David is a composite but that doesn't change the reality his story reflects of a place and time


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the Hypathia story (which is itself 90% myth/composite as well)

How is that?

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the Hypathia story (which is itself 90% myth/composite as well).

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Do you have a single piece of evidence to back this claim up?
Fanboy : a person who does not think while watching.

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Sorry but, Christians the most persecuted group for several hundred years of the Roman Empire? How about the Jews who had their their homeland burned, their temple destroyed, and millions of their citizens enslaved? Or the druids who were wiped out on Roman-occupied lands so thoroughly that they ceased to exist?

FABRICATE DIEM, PVNC

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It's a movie.

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Just to make something perfectly clear: The people you are calling CHRISTIANS were in fact no such thing. The character in this movie, Constantine, a pagan until his deathbed, started a religion in 4th century CE he coined the name CATOLICA or Universal. He lied and said it was based on the Apostle Peter who NEVER came to Rome and was NEVER called "the rock" by Jesus. Jesus called Simon (his real name) "little pebble" or Petros in Greek (Peter). So calling the Roman Catholic Church "Christians" is a misnomer. Jesus never knew them and would have wholly rejected their pagan ancient Babylonian-based dogma.

So all of the CHRISTIAN atrocities and wrong-doings should be renamed CATHOLIC not Christian. Constantine and his mother Helena cooked up many lies not unlikely also this made up story about Catherine. How they built that monastery at the base of Mt. Sinai amazes me. Why did the Muslims allow that?

And this story that the library was destroyed by Muslims or Julius Caesar... which one? There were many iterations of the library and it's burning down over time. Plutarch said the one involving Caesar was an accident. He was just trying to burn his fleet of ships and the flash over engulfed the library. Caliph Omar (Muslims) never actually burnt the library. That was just myth propagated by Bar-Hebraeus in 13th century CE.

If Catherine was so protected by angels (destroying the wheel simply by touching it), and was gifted with Solomon-like wisdom, why didn't they protect her from her martyrdom? She was carried away by angels? Why would they do that? They didn't carry away Jesus to his tomb. Also if she was so venerated as a martyr, why did someone remove her fingers to be exploited in some Catholic ritual? Why did the Vatican initially remove her day from the calendar?

Inquiring minds want to know...

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Yes, St. Peter DID go to Rome!!! It is an historical fact. The Papacy is traced all the way back to him!!!!

Also, the word 'Catholic,' meaning 'Universal' was first used by St. Ignatius in the year 110 AD.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm

As for the part about angels: that is actually a mistranslation. It were Christian MONKS which took her remains to Mount Sinai.

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"If you love Mary and Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make your signature!"

Don't you know PRIDE is a deadly sin?

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No Simon Peter NEVER died in Rome. Read 1 Peter 5:13. He wrote it from Babylon on the Euphrates (ancient Iraq). There was a large population of Jews there too.

It doesn't matter who invented the term UNIVERSAL (Catholica). Constantine made it official in 4th century. Jesus and Peter NEVER heard of that term! It's not in the Bible.

I believe you about the monks. That does make more sense than obedient angels as they would have NOTHING to do with her because of her personal choice (free will) to do the WRONG thing and not worship Jesus' God and the angels Father.

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Chris you are wrong. Omar did burn the library. There are contemporaneous Muslim accounts of it. It was one of several burnings. But Omar burned it intentionally

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Scholars are skeptical of these stories, given the range of time that had passed before they were written down and the political motivations of the various writers. It is said that Umar (or Omar) said the same thing about Iranian (Persian) books. That seems illogical.

But I have no sympathy for Umar or Muslims as I am a Judeo-Christian. I also could care less about the library. It's all pagan to me.

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"Her murder sent shock waves through the Roman world, and to me (and others) it marked the beginning of the Dark Ages"

LOL!!!!!!!!!

The dark ages begun when Rome fell and Europe was overtaken by uncivilized barbarians. Nice try to propagandize your anti-christian hatred, neopagan boy...

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