MovieChat Forums > Shameless (2011) Discussion > "No dude is bi. If you like d**k, you're...

"No dude is bi. If you like d**k, you're gay."

posted 8 years ago by AKenjiB_II
55 replies | jump to latest

Oh my god, are you serious? Ian actually believes bisexuals don't exist. And none of the other characters even try to call him out for saying that. I guess I better tell my bisexual buddy, Spencer, to go break up with his girlfriend then. Since as Ian explained, he likes d**k so he must be gay. And to then end it with "When did you become such a bisexual?" Really? It's one thing to wanna breakup with your boyfriend for cheating on you, but to wanna break up with him because he's bisexual is absolutely stupid.

And then it's Frank of all people, with his reference of "interracial bisexual funny business" who actually seems to understand that bisexuality is real, even if he doesn't like it.

Now I know that a character's opinion is not necessarily the show's opinion so I'm really hoping that the show doesn't take the route that Glee took that bisexual men don't exist. I guess we'll see. Or maybe we won't ever see Caleb again and the show won't ever again challenge Ian's BS belief that bisexual males don't exist.

[–] rawrkristina 8 years ago

There are unfortunately gay people out there who do not believe bisexuality exists. I am hoping one day Ian gets educated that it does and he is being an ass for believing it doesn't.

Also Caleb isn't coming back, the actor who played him left to do another show.

Playing hard to get? I love a challenge.

[–] UseYourHeart 8 years ago

It's also ironic because technically, by his own definition of the term, Ian is "bisexual" (however mild) for not only going through with sleeping with a woman but even considering it in the first place. Hell, he even ate her out (after having just met her, which is triflin as f-ck, but that's another argument for another day).

100% means 100%. Period. I don't care how disgusted he was after the fact. If he truly was strictly dickly he wouldn't have gone through with that. ESPECIALLY not eating her out. I mean what the HELL! Lol, bruh.

And his over the top disgust with having sex with a girl was just retarded. Let that had been Lip reacting similarly to having sex with a guy. There'd be a damn press conference over it.

This entire storyline was bullsh-t.

[–] starduss_ala 8 years ago

I completely feel that same way about guys that say they're bi.

[–] jarn2004 8 years ago

disagree.

There have been storylines in other shows and movies (American Pie) where guys get "disgusted" at the idea of or doing gay acts and its funny. Ian's reaction was funny and totally reasonable.

As far as him going down on her. Ian, like the rest of the gallaghers is a ho...... Is it really all that surprising that hed go down on a strangers? Lip does it all the time.......

[–] UseYourHeart 8 years ago

There has never been a mainstream portrayal of an established straight character going all in with a member of the same sex (while sober and willing) and then being completely disgusted by it to the point of nausea. At least not to my knowledge.

Please give me an example of a guy/girl in a film/TV show willingly sleeping with a member of the same sex and then being shown to be so disgusted that they feel the need to basically take a rape shower afterwards. Bonus points if they then proceed to criticize how "gross" or "slimy" the other party's anatomy is. I will gladly eat my words and give you internet gold if you can show me an example of this.

Again, by Ian's definition, he is now bi. Note how I said "Ian's definition." I am in no way implying that his definition is correct.

[–] jarn2004 8 years ago

I already gave you one. American Pie 2. In the scene, the lads think their neighbors are lesbians and in turn for watching them do things they do things with each other. In that scene all they do is kiss and then run out of the house when stifler removes his pants. They dont even sleep together. and are disgusted that they just kissed.

[–] UseYourHeart 8 years ago

I saw the movie and I know what scene you're talking about. They were unwilling participants in a kiss in hopes of getting to sleep with the "lesbians." Stifler then drops his pants and the other two comically run out horrified. Nothing happened aside from a forced, awkward kiss that neither of them planned to engage in.

I meant list examples of movies or TV shows where a character has a full blown bisexual experience (i.e coitus) and then reacts like someone fed them sh-t, basically.

Even on Queer as Folk there were gay characters that had straight sexual experiences, and none of the characters had the reaction that Ian did. He was just being extra.

The lady doth protest too much methinks.

[–] Pumpyjones 8 years ago

I disagree. I think forcing yourself to have sex with a woman is not the same as having genuine sexual attraction to a woman. Ian is not sexually attracted to women. He was not sexually attracted to that woman. He's not bisexual, regardless of where he put his tongue. He got no enjoyment out of it. That pretty much makes him gay.

Just because you try sometime once and don't like it, doesn't mean it defines you forever. If you ate red meat one time and threw up and then was a vegetarian for the rest of your life, would it be accurate for people to call you an omnivore? No. you're a vegetarian.

[–] tika313 8 years ago

He got a boner for her. I'd call that bi.

[–] ShadowOfTheWave 8 years ago

People can get a boner from simple stimulation, you don't have to be attracted to the person, which he clearly wasn't.

[–] tika313 8 years ago

Yes you're right. He kept it through out the encounter though. I suppose he could have been fantasizing. I 'm not an expert.

[–] jarn2004 8 years ago

Ian's 18/ 19. He could rub up against a tree and get an erection..........

[–] UseYourHeart 8 years ago

He ate her out. That literally requires no arousal to perform. It does, however, require some form of an affinity (however miniscule) for pussy, though.

Ian made a hypocrite out of himself by screwing a woman. He is now, by his very own definition, a bisexual. Now all he has to do is come outta the closet. Again. 😒

ETA:

Also, him screwing a woman cannot be compared to the millions of gays who have engaged in heterosexual sex as a cover for fear of ridicule, being ostracized, and in many cases, death. He was an out and proud gay guy with familial and social support for his sexuality. There was literally no other reason for him to do this besides being bi-curious.

[–] ShadowOfTheWave 8 years ago

Maybe by his own definition, but his definition isn't necessarily correct. Considering he was basically vomiting afterward, I doubt he has any affinity for pussy.

[–] UseYourHeart 8 years ago

There's no way someone would put the genitals of a gender they're not sexually attracted to anywhere near their body, let alone in their mouth. I'm a firm believer in sexual fluidity. But I'm also a firm believer that if one makes a claim to be 100% gay or straight and repulsed by sex with the gender outside of their orientation, they would NOT go down on someone unless they weren't as disgusted by it as they claimed.

Just think about it this way. Whatever your sexual orientation is, would you go down on someone that is outside of that orientation? Really think about that. If the answer is yes, then there is a trace amount of affinity there. Not repulsion as Ian tried to present himself.

[–] Pumpyjones 8 years ago

Don't you think people can define what they like for themselves though? If Ian went down on her and hated it and will probably never touch a woman again, how is he a bisexual man? He clearly doesn't desire women. One sexual experience doesn't define a person's sexuality. He's a teenager. People are allowed to make sure they don't like something before ruling it out completely.

And let me tell you, I had a boyfriend in college who came out a few years later, and ALL he wanted to do was oral. It's much easier for gay men to have sex with a woman when they don't have to rely on their penises to give the woman pleasure. I'm sure he was probably worried about keeping it up with a girl. Oral sex is the easier way for gay men who are in denial or closeted.

And even if a gay man does have sex with a woman, that doesn't mean they don't prefer men 100% of the time. Sex can be mechanical and isn't always dependent on attraction. A guy can always close his eyes and fantasize about somebody else while they're with a woman. Lesbians who have been married to men did it ALL the time.

[–] tbone382001 8 years ago

I would think if Ian was 100% gay he certainly wouldn't be able to reach an orgasm with a woman. He shouldn't have been able to stay hard the whole time either.

[–] tika313 8 years ago

tbone, that's my point exactly. As someone else mentioned he didn't need to be aroused to go down.

[–] ShadowOfTheWave 8 years ago

I disagree. Just because he isn't completely disgusted with the idea of sex with a woman doesn't mean he's attracted to her in anyway. People can reach orgasm simply through stimulation with no attraction.

[–] tika313 8 years ago

Shadow, Maybe when they are alone. When you're with a living breathing person it's different. Remember he chose her which in my experience indicates a modicum of attraction. But that's what makes the world go round, our uniqueness.

[–] Thorakus 8 years ago

There are rape cases where the women have orgasms simply through stimulation. Orgasms are an involuntary reaction to stimulation sometimes, especially for men.

[–] tika313 8 years ago

You're correct. That very thing is why some victims of sexual assault feel deeply shamed and don't report the crime.

[–] AKenjiB_II 8 years ago

Eh, I don't know. Closeted gay men surely must have been having at least some sex with their wives for centuries, since until recent in history, they didn't have many options. Maybe you just have to think about something else. Just a theory.

[–] lazarillo 8 years ago

That is a strange, but unfortunately it is a common attitude among a lot of gays. And it's one thing to have that attitude toward the bisexuals who are 75 percent gay (like Caleb) and might even identify as gay, but there are also bisexuals who are completely indifferent between males and females, and there are bisexuals who are actually 75 percent STRAIGHT.

People are just too judgmental and expect everyone to be like them. I could never understand, for instance, the straight guys who were willing to have sloppy sex with the most overweight, disgusting women imaginable if they were horny enough, but were appalled at the very idea of a good-looking twink performing oral sex on them. But there are people that are totally straight just like there are people that are totally gay. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

"Let be be finale of seem/ The only emperor is the Emperor of comIce Cream"

[–] jarn2004 8 years ago

I think its interesting that we're talking about Ian not believing hes bi, and not the fact that regardless, Caleb cheated on him and wrote it off because it was a girl. Thats almost worst imo because it means caleb will sleep with anything that walks.

[–] Bballdiva23 8 years ago

Exactly. The cheating and using his bisexuality as an excuse was the main problem. Caleb was that told him that doesn't mean he isn't gay so that just contributes to how bad the situation is. Basically Caleb seems like a slut at this point.

[–] Grey-Phantom 8 years ago

so I'm really hoping that the show doesn't take the route that Glee took that bisexual men don't exist

I used to love glee but stopped at the fourth season because i thought it was too lame then.

I'm never thought they'd actually write that in.
What happened exactly?

P.s. Bisexual men DO exist. I'm a gay man and thank the lawd for bi men. They tend to surprise you. But I agree with the other posters, a LOT of gay men don't believe in bisexuality for many reasons.
1) When gay men are coming out often they come out as bi to make it "less bad". (I know I did).
2) When they DO come out as gay (and are gay) they often have to reassess the fact that they can Never Ever like a vag. So a tiny hint of bisexuality could give someone hope for "conversion" or something of the sort...

[–] Pumpyjones 8 years ago

Bi guys totally exist. In fact, there are tons of mostly straight bi guys who think they're straight but clearly aren't - yet definitely wouldn't count as gay. Guys who get a little closer to the center of the Kinsey scale when they're high or drunk and less inhibited but they're not romantically into men (i.e. they're not into dating men). These are the same dudebros who pretend it's totally straight to masturbate together while watching p0rn, like that's not a few beers away from a 'helping hand' situation.

Anyway, my point is, bi guys are way way more common than people think, because lots of straight guys are in denial about how much gay stuff they do.

I do know a few bi guys who prefer men, but they do tend to get coopted. I think it's probably harder for a guy to be a gay leaning bisexual, because the skepticism from the gay community is definitely harder to deal with than finding an open-minded girl who can roll with a guy's interesting sexual past.

[–] ixfireprincessxl 8 years ago

I used to love glee but stopped at the fourth season because i thought it was too lame then.

I'm never thought they'd actually write that in.
What happened exactly?

I think that started from the second season when Rachel had a crush on Blaine and Kurt pretty much said there was no such thing as a bi guy.

he ran into my knife. he ran into my knife ten times.

[–] AKenjiB_II 8 years ago

Glee's bisexual storyline was in season 2 with the character of Blaine.

In the season 2 episode, Blame it on the alcohol, when Blaine claims to be bi, Kurt responds by saying ""Bisexual" is a term that gay guys in high school use when they want to hold hands with girls and feel like a normal person for a change." And naturally, it was soon discovered that Kurt was right, Blaine really was 100% gay and just in denial.

[–] Grey-Phantom 8 years ago

That wasn't necessarily implying that bi men don't exist.
All it proved was that kurt think they don't and that blaine isn't one.

[–] AKenjiB_II 8 years ago

I think it implies it. Obviously it doesn't straight out say it. But Kurt states bisexuals don't exist to a character who claims to be bisexual. His notion is barely challenged and he's ultimately proved right about this character. I definitely felt like an implication was there.

[–] Jaybone23 8 years ago

There are people who believe there are no such things as homosexuals, but only homosexual acts. Same, really, with heterosexuals. They don't accept homosexuality as an identity, and therefore do not accept bisexuality as an identity. The argument is interesting, but can be used as an end run around civil rights issues.

[–] Philip_90 8 years ago

Ian had sex with women so the whole "no dude is bi" is pure B.S.