MovieChat Forums > The Borgias (2011) Discussion > If you didn't like Borgia Apocalypse and...

If you didn't like Borgia Apocalypse and want to try something else...

posted 11 years ago by Moth_To_A_Flame86
19 replies | jump to latest

So as I noted in another post, I started my own 'Season 4' of The Borgias when they cancelled the show, to wrap up all our favorite storylines. Then when I found out about the e-book this week I read a sample to see if it was any good, and REALLY disliked it

SO for anyone who feels the same way I do and wants to hear a synopsis of what I had in mind, respond here! I have a rough idea of how a whole season would go, it still needs some edits and I'm rewatching the seasons for continuity and also researching for historical consistency (with creative license of course, but i want to at least try to follow a few events as a guideline) but i definitely know where I want to go with it and I think its a much more satisfying ending - despite still being tragic, as we all expected.

I will say this, some elements I did envision similarly on my own! Here is a list (sneak preview?) of a few:

- Micheletto returns & exposes Rufio's betrayal (think we all wanted that)
- Continuation of Cesare/Lucrezia's storyline (with some hitches, but not as crazy as apocalypse! mostly jealousy, but on both sides)
- A child for Cesare (history books he did have one! this influences some of his demise)
- Death of the Pope
- Return of Della Rovere (in the season opener)
- Addition of Leonardo Da Vinci to show

Thoughts?

[–] suchalovelylady 11 years ago

I'd like to read what you envisioned. Perhaps, others can share their expectations as well.

[–] Moth_To_A_Flame86 11 years ago

Ok here's a synopsis of Episode 1 (I wrote most of it in a 'TV Guide' format, just summarizing the events since I don't have time to hash out every scene)

Season 4, Episode 1: Il Valentino

Three months after the death of Alfonso, Cesare is officially announced as Papal Gonfalnier in an elaborate celebration at the Vatican. The Pope presses Cesare to build their empire & sends him on a conquest of Naples and Spain. Vanozza begins to suspect an abnormal closeness between Cesare and Lucrezia. Della Rovere returns to Rome & blackmails Ascanio Sforza, but seemingly not under his own interests, but that of a trusted ally whom he wants to be Cardinal. Rufio follows the Cardinal after his secret meeting with Della Rovere, yet adds his own terms to the blackmail. He gives Ascanio another chance to prove his loyalty to the Sforza family by enlisting him to help assassinate Cardinal Farnese, who presents a threat to their betrayal plot. Rufio only informs Cesare that he suspects a lack of loyalty in Ascanio and asks his permission to keep a close eye on him. After granting it thankfully, Cesare leaves for France to make new allies and begin his siege of Naples, accompanied by Lucrezia. In France, Cesare discovers he has a son with Charlotte D'Albret. Lucrezia, brimming with jealousy, meets her own potential suitor from Ferrara, and also draws the attention of the artist Leonardo Da Vinci. Cesare makes allies with Fernandez de Cordoba and receives his backing in a siege on Naples. At the end of the episode, a jealous fight between him and Lucrezia culminates in a rough love scene, with Charlotte D'Albret in earshot in the next room, meanwhile back in Rome, after Rufio's coercing, Ascanio uses the cross weapon to murder Cardinal Farnese.

The objective of this episode is basically to show a few things:
1) Cesare & Lucrezia's descent into darkness// In the show and in my personal opinion, they have already begun this in Season 3. The season opener serves the purpose of reinforcing that they have embraced what they are, yet foreshadows that now that they have accepted it, it will become their undoing. The less they care about discretion, the more they start to lose focus - Cesare is the most key in this regard as it gradually affects his decision making, which has up until this point in the series, been one of his strong points.

2) Positioning of the Borgia Family for a fall// With allies in their hands and a conquest already laid out, the Borgia family is right at the peak of their triumph, which we know is the perfect time for everything to collapse under them...

3) Development of the Borgia enemies // Rufio we always knew would never be truly loyal - in this episode we see that he attempts to use Cesare's trust against him while manipulating his relative Ascanio to do what he couldn't do in Season 3. Additionally, Della Rovere's long awaited return comes with a surprise request - we know he's in this for himself but his approach is instead to use a pawn for his game.

Thoughts?

[–] SummerJewel 11 years ago

Your script is way more exciting. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[–] Moth_To_A_Flame86 11 years ago

Thank you! I'm actually working on writing out Episode 1 now. Its kind of challenging to just write a TV episode like that, I know what I want to happen but it takes time to figure out how much can fit in an hour, how long each scene should be, what dialogue to use etc... but I'm watching the show and working at it. Its a fun distraction ;)

If anyone's interested I'll post the synopsis for Episode 2!

[–] trina_dienger 11 years ago

I liked it but in two instances you screw up the history. Not sure if it is intentionally or not but Cesare and Charlotte have a daughter Louise, not a son, and Alessandro Farnese becomes Pope Paul III...so killing him seems...odd to say the least. I understand you are taking creative liscene like having Lucrezia accompany Cesare on his conquests and his going to France (Cesare never saw Charlotte again historically) but the two abovementioned things are somewhat strange to change in my opinion. Why not kill an unnamed cardinal or something instead or introduce a new cardinal and have him die like they did with the plague cardinal DeLucca?

Personally I don't like the idea that Cesare's downfall was contributed to his becoming darker as a character. Historically Cesare's downfall had more to do with Della Rovere getting the papacy and taking his titles and betraying him to Spain than it did to Cesare's own character, Della did this because he feared Cesare would sieze the Romagna that he coveted. Yes the world feared Cesare and Della hated their family but it was more due to their Catalan/Spanish origins and their taking of the Romagna than Cesare's attitude or cruelty or whatever. Not saying his cruelty didn't play a small part in his downfall perhaps but not the onyl contributing factor as so many shows protray.

[–] Moth_To_A_Flame86 11 years ago

Thanks for your feedback!

Yes, the history was fudged intentionally - I realized that Cardinal Farnese becomes Pope but I wanted to eliminate a character that we were familiar with. I could revise this I suppose to fill someone else, but I couldn't see the value in killing off someone that already had little importance? Especially since I wanted this to take place in the very first episode, with little time to develop them. But i suppose that could work, I'd just have to develop them as very likeable and trustworthy, to increase the impact of their death. Perhaps a trusted friend of Cardinal Farnese? Or something to that effect.

Actually I looked up my history and it showed that Cesare does have a daughter Louise, but also a son Philippe with Charlotte. As TV shows often do, I wanted to skip over the first child, since I believe a daughter would have less value in the story than a son - allowing Cesare to develop his own dynamic as he has with his father, and enabling him to experience what it would be like to want to continue his legacy as well. Those subjects are harder to breach with a daughter, so i thought this was a fitting place to take creative license with. After all, the show pretty much eliminated Gioffre from the history books after Season 1! So I figured I could tweak this a bit.

The way I continued to write Cesare in my 'fanfic season' is actually more in line with what you described. He's really not much changed as far as his attitude or his cruelty. He's a bit more aggressive, yes and somewhat possessive of Lucrezia, but this is all in continuance from how is portrayed in Season 3. A little power and ambition gets to him, but as always first and foremost he is loyal to 'the family' sometimes to a fault. I increase his descent somewhat with Della Rovere becoming Pope, but there's a lot going on and its substantiated why he starts to downfall.

If anything, I actually develop a slightly darker side of Lucrezia. I would imagine at the end of Season 2, her resignation to being 'Just a Borgia' and her continued attraction and obsession with Cesare would just about finish off her innocence completely and make her more of the femme fatale... SO i explore a few things with her character, completely feasible however.

Let me know your thoughts and I'll continue to post the summaries of the next episodes. I can tailor them to remove the omission of Farnese above, I agree that needs tweaking.

Thanks again!

[–] trina_dienger 11 years ago

I've read a great deal on the Borgias like Sabatini, Woodward, Bradford, Meyer, etc so I am knowlodge and from everything I've read Cesare only had one daughter by Charlotte named Louise. Cesare left Charlotte in France shortly after their marriage and never saw her again historically. There was no son named Philippe. Cesare also had bastards, sometimes given as 11 children (Camilla, Lucrezia, and Girolamo being three of the names) but I only know that from a friend who has read the older biographies it is found in.

Does it have to be a cardinal that gets killed? You could always kill Mattai the Jewish guy. He's someone we are familiar with and he's fictional so he can be killed whenever, but I suppose killing Farnese isn't any worse than killing Ludovico Sforza (who didn't die that way on the show) so do whatever you want, if NJ can twist the history so can you.

Also why would Ascanio turn on The Borgias now? That is something you would need to develop in my opinion because Ascanio has picked the Borgias and suddenly reversing that decision seems odd especially given Ludovico's dead, caterina's imprisoned, etc. It just doesn't make sense now to do it unless you have something planned that I am not seeing.

Della Rovere making an appearance is great but is he sneaking about Rome or what? I never understood why Della wasn't in France in s3, if I was him I'd be trying to turn the French King against Cesare because without his support Cesare was nothng. Also the lords Cesare takes his lands from could be added for drama and start plotting with Della to convince the French King to drop Cesare and this could eventually lead Cesare into getting his own Italian troops as he does historically. It could be a good sideplot to mine, just an idea. I am curious where your script is going and your Cesare and Lucrezia I believe are good, I always wanted a more feme fatale Lucrezia, the fact that NJ kept flip flopping between victim and feme fatale was tiresome in my opinion and less crying please.

[–] Moth_To_A_Flame86 11 years ago

Well i must confess I got my 'son Philippe' from wikipedia! LOL. But even if its not found anywhere, I just like the son dynamic better for right now.

Actually the way I have the plotlines written, it does have to be a cardinal that gets killed, so I'm sticking with that, but I did revise it (on my other post) to be a 'nobody'. Honestly I didn't even think of Mattai, but yea not sure what purpose it would serve killing him off.

Ascanio was a hard card to play when I was writing this, I wanted him to continue being their ally but their actual downfall does not work unless he is on the other side. The reason being - Ascanio I think is essential to why they've made it thus far for so long. He's been a helpful ally, and even as he was about to off the Pope in S3 opener, he changes his mind and ends up saving them all. And i realized - if he wasn't the way he is, or there were a few different elements, they'd pretty much be done. So i feel like I have to pursue that.

I agree it would have to be developed really well and it has to be a serious catalyst pushing him to work against them. So i have to give that some thought, but for now its working with the plot, so i'm rolling with it.

Yea Della Rovere is still skulking around lol. I like where I'm going with him, he's got this 'serpent tempting eve' thing going on in this season (more on that to come!) And actually i do have Cesare's condottiere plotting against him as well (is that what you meant by the lords from his lands? Don't worry, they show up!) Basically the Borgias are at the point where they have developed massive amounts of enemies and it all comes to a head where they can't get out of it.

Glad u like my C/L :-) Favorite parts to write!

[–] trina_dienger 11 years ago

Wikipedia is only as knowlodgable as the people writing it lol. If you want to go the son inheriting route I'd give that role to Giovanni Borgia aka Roman Infant. Cesare historically planned to give everything to him anyway so you wouldn't need to change history or add another child to the plot, I am pretty sure if NJ addressed the issue he would have gone that route too.

As to the Ascanio thing are you having him work with Della Rovere? Historically Ascanio and Della hated each other, Della hated him more than he hated the Borgias even, and Ascanio and Della fought for the papacy after Rodrigo's death and Ascanio pretty much gave up living after he lost and died shortly after. The show hasn't had them interact but I can't see Ascanio agreeing to help Della Rovere even in the show version. I am curious as to how you'd develop Ascanio's change of hesrt in regards to The Borgias.

When I say the lords of the lands Cesare took I mean Petrucci, Malatesta, Guilobaldo of Urbino, Camerino's ruler whose name escapes me, etc Pretty sure I spelled them wrong but don't have my books on hand to check. Cesare took over the Romagna at the expense of a lot more tyrants than just Caterina Sforza, Forli and Imola were the beginning of his many conquests and historically many of the rulers fled and later went to the French King Louis to ask him to leave Cesare. He didn't do this obviously but they certainly tried. These men aren't Vitelli, Balgioni, Colonna, etc we saw, those are the conottiere who he murdered at Senigallia, two very different groups of enemies. I don't believe NJ was going to show the rulers tbh but whatever.

If you need help with any historical facts I can do provide them. If you want reading material I can recommend a few books too. When are you posting the next episode tease :)

[–] Moth_To_A_Flame86 11 years ago

LOL i know, wikipedia is definitely not reliable. But I should mention that much like Neil Jordan, I'm not as worried about the historical accuracy of the show, just moreso focusing on what would make for interesting drama, in connection with the current storylines already developed and our favorite characters. I would like to hold to some history but I don't mind taking a little creative license. Its just fanfic after all

That being said, I do think just having any child satisfies the direction of the story, so I can revise it to be a daughter, Louise. I'll post the revision when I put up episode 3, and I'll rewrite the bonding moment as a reflection Cesare has on Lucrezia, comparing his young daughter's innocence to that which his sister once had. But, Giovanni just doesn't work in this setup for Cesare - it needs to be his child, to explore his own personal sense of connection. And also, it needs to be something that his wife has over Lucrezia, one half of Cesare that gives her a part of him, an upper hand which she can kind of dangle in front of Lucrezia. That plays well into the jealousy theme.

For Ascanio - he's being blackmailed by Della Rovere, so he's not buddy up with him at all, and if anything he'll probably hate him even more for forcing him to be a part of his plot against his will. Its not that he's having a change of heart, he's just bending towards the wind. And really, its not that he respects the Borgias, he's just been loyal to them, he's 'Team Borgia' if you will. But can we really isolate any affection or admiration for them throughout the series? Ascanio goes with the hot hand, and he's smart. He knows who's on top and follows that person. So I haven't yet broken out the details for how it all happens, I'd have to give it some thought but you're welcome to make a suggestion! Its just a direction I want to stick with. I thought of perhaps having Della Rovere finding out about a family that Ascanio has and using them against him (this is a callback to S1 where I think Rodrigo went to talk to him and he was chasing some floozy around his room? so maybe he's got some secret kids on the side?) I like to use things the show already established so it doesn't feel like new stories are getting built on nothing.

On that same point, I'd prefer to stick with Baglioni, Vitelli, Colonna - all the familiar faces who got some airtime. More cohesive to the plot and wrapping up their own established storylines. I have always felt too many new characters in the final season of a show are kind of pointless.

If you'd like to PM me a few historical facts that would be great! Again, i'm just working with the basics, pretty much the way NJ did with the first 3 seasons. He may be criticized for some SERIOUS creative license, but hey we all loved the show right? So why stop here lol.

Shooting for today or tomorrow for the next episode tease! Stay tuned.

[–] eugenia_katze 11 years ago

There was no son named Philippe. Cesare also had bastards, sometimes given as 11 children (Camilla, Lucrezia, and Girolamo being three of the names) but I only know that from a friend who has read the older biographies it is found in.

Wait. Camilla and Lucrezia are the same girl. She was baptised as Camilla. After Cesare's death the girl was brought up in Ferrara, under protection of her aunt, Lucrezia. She became a nun in 1516 taking the name of Sister Lucrezia in honour of her aunt whom she respected enormously.
Louise was Cesare's only legitimate child, that's right. Never heard of any sons named Philippe.

[–] trina_dienger 11 years ago

Okay thanks for adding that, I didn't remember that correctly obviously, just took it off the top of my head sorry. Also which sources have you read that in? Iam curious, thanks.

[–] eugenia_katze 11 years ago

Also which sources have you read that in?

Honestly I can't remember right now but surely in several ones. I'm pretty certain Bradford mentioned it in her BOTH bios, for example. Anyway Cesare acknowledged only 2 of the bastards as his own: Girolamo and Camilla; all the others are just gossips/ rumours.

[–] trina_dienger 11 years ago

I am sure Bradford has it, just checking to see where you got it from. Haven't reread Bradford, it's probably just one of those small details that went over my head when reading the first time.

[–] melissabellais-582-641211 11 years ago

I FREAKING LOVEEEEEE your script, please send more...

I was at peace with the way the show ended, I wans't sure I wanted to see the downfall of the Borgias and I was absolutely sure I didn't wanted to see Cesare die, so, yes, I was at peace with that ending... that was until I read this!

This plot is so exciting, this is so much better than that ridiculous movie Neil Jordan wanted to make (thank goodness Showtime said no), I would definitely tune in for this (well, I would tune in for anything to watch François in leather pants one last time)... Showtime should hire you to REALLY wrap up the show!

[–] Moth_To_A_Flame86 11 years ago

Thank you so much for your comments, so glad you like it! I actually am posting the synopsis for an entire concluding 4th season right now on fanfiction.net. Here is the link to the next episode:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/9656781/1/Season-4-Episode-2-Divide-And-Conquer

Please feel free to check that 1 out along with the other 9 episodes i have posted and leave me a review!!! The season/series finale is coming soon =)

I'm also hoping to add more details so its like a screenplay - to help really visualize each scene. I agree i was so depressed when i read Neil Jordan's version, and that's what made me want to take a stab at it lol...

Happy reading!

[–] katrinachabon 11 years ago

Addition of Leonardo Da Vinci to show

Good call, I always felt so cheated that he never showed up.

[–] ladyvader63 11 years ago

I really enjoyed what you wrote and would LOVE to read more. I also read a sample of the e-book and was really disappointed. It seemed forced and like NJ was trying to piss someone off. If there is a season 4 (a movie, mini-series, whatever) I really hope that e-book doesn't get used.

[–] Moth_To_A_Flame86 11 years ago

Thank you so much for your interest! I posted Episode 3 under another post, but here it is again for you to view below. I haven't got too much feedback on IMDb so i'm in the process of uploading to The Borgias fansite on fanfiction.net... I'll post the link once I do.

I agree, I thought the e-book was so disappointing and was immediately inspired to start posting the season I had already begun to write =) At least in my imagination it can get its proper ending!

SEASON 4 EPISODE 3: BLOOD INHERITANCE Despite the victory in Marche, the French allies decide to recall their armed forces from Cesare’s grasp, citing the broken alliance as their excuse to end support of the Borgia Empire. Determined to still take Naples, Cesare returns to Rome to replenish his forces, with Lucrezia and Louise in tow. En route, Da Vinci intimates to Cesare that despite the appearance of drowning, Charlotte died of poison. The condottiere are commissioned to enlist additional forces to build an Italian army, yet during their recruit they also begin a secret plot of betrayal – first by seeking out Rufio’s inside advantage. Unaware of Rufio’s dealings with Cardinal Sforza and Della Rovere, they reach a profitable agreement. In Rome, Alexander is both relieved to see Cesare return victorious, and angered by the loss of France’s support. Cesare assures him he will build forces from the support of the Italian states, yet Alexander continues to stress over the events in the Vatican. Informing Cesare of the replacement of Cardinal Antonelli with Todeschini, and imprisonment of Cardinal Adriano, he has him investigate further and Cesare has his own audience with Cardinal Sforza. Sforza divulges nothing, but tips Cesare off about Rufio, implying he is not to be trusted. In secret, Todeschini notifies Della Rovere about the Borgia’s loss of French allies and they discuss their next play. Lucrezia cares for Louise and visits Giovanni at Vanozza’s home. She contemplates wedding the suitor from Ferrara she met in France, whose inheritance could protect the family and help replenish the treasury and arms. Cesare seeks answers from Rufio, who in turn accuses Cardinal Sforza. Uncertain on whom to trust, Cesare faces a critical decision and confers with Alexander on their next steps, but before he can act, Alexander admonishes him to visit his family. Cesare goes to Vanozza and while there, shares a tender moment with Louise and Giovanni, reflecting on their similarity to himself and Lucrezia and how much they have changed over time. After witnessing her brother’s emotional expression, Lucrezia is anguished and confesses to Charlotte’s murder. Pent by guilt in failing to cleanse her sins and already knowing the truth, Cesare tearfully forgives her.