*spoilers* why does Juan....

....hate lucrezia so much? He seems to have some kind of grudge? Did I miss something between those 2? Its almost like jealousy but he would have zero reason to be jealous. He goes out of his way to kill the stable boy and threatens her baby as if he has some personal vendetta with her.

See it was implied in S1 that Juan may be in fact not a son of Rodrigo Borgia and his real father is possibly the husband of Vannozza, a man of base origin. Hence his irrational hate of the stable boy, his bastard son as well as all common people and bastards in general, I think. He quasi tries to show his family that despite his own questionable origin he’s the more real and better Borgia than Rodrigo’s genuine children and can protect the family’s honour and Lucrezia’s reputation better than anyone else.

Besides, maybe he’s jealous of Lucrezia and Cesare because he sees the special and very close relationship between the two and feels himself a sort of excluded.

Still I can’t really see how the appearance of Paolo in Rome hurts the reputation of Lucrezia so much. I mean, anyway: neither she nor anyone else ever tried to hide her bastard son or at least to explain his birth... as if the writers totally forgot that her marriage was dissolved in S1 because of nonconsummation and she’s supposed to be still a virgin! So does it really matter who the father is, a peasant or whoever? All this just makes no sense.

Also, Juan is acting like a complete idiot all the time. That alleged note by Paolo was the worst… Juan is probably the only person in the world who’s sure that 15th century stable boys could read and write. It’s beyond me how could Rodrigo ever believe that such a fool would be able to command armies.

And anyway this sudden transformation of Juan’s personality somewhere between two seasons is weird. Zero character development; at the end of S1 he’s together with the rest of the family rejoicing at the birth of Lucrezia’s baby and in S2 he basically hates the baby, its father and everyone else, all of a sudden.

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Also a side question: what was katarina Sforza (spelling?) Fighting the pope over? She didn't want to bend her knee? Seriously? Pride? Thats it? She was willing to let her son be tortured or murdered just cuz she didn't want to bend her knee? Wtf did I miss? Maybe refresh my memory cuz I don't feel like rewatching everything and most of season 1 was a BORE. What did the borgias do to them to piss her off so much?

Well in the series Cesare killed Caterina’s cousin, Giovanni Sforza… Which the historical Cesare never did, just btw...

The conflict between the pope and Caterina started in S1 of the show… do you remember that Rodrigo married Lucrezia to Caterina’s cousin, Giovanni Sforza, and also gave him that enormous dowry stupidly hoping that Sforzas would help him to protect his papacy from the French? Of course they betrayed him and now he’s feeling deceived and declares revenge.

I cannot say I understand what exactly the pope wants from Caterina in season 2, though… I mean, the lady promised him help, then betrayed him, took his money, joined the French army and almost dethroned him… and now he wants her to swear allegiance ONCE MORE, seriously? So I think Caterina doesn’t trust him and thinks he just wants to lure her into Rome in order to kill or arrest her and confiscate her castles; no wonder she refuses to come, after all. The funniest thing is that she is probably wrong: the old fool really wanted to make peace with her or so it seems to me, idk.

Also, I can’t see how Juan is supposed to take Caterina’s castle, Forli, considering the fact that on the show she has cannons and the Borgias haven't any… so taking her son and blackmailing her is although mean, but basically the only possible thing for him to try. I can't really blame him.

I loved Gina’s performance as Caterina but the fact that the writers made her conflict with the Borgias entirely personal is just MEH for me; in history it was more political and financial, not just a stupid combat of two egos.

The historical Caterina was an awesome character, no question, but to the end of the 15th century her best and most interesting years were already over – all in all, she was only one of the papal vicars who were appointed to rule over the papal states and did it badly. On the show, however, she’s the Borgia’s Big Enemy Number One and her vendetta against them just goes on, and on, and on… so one can think the whole Romagna consists only of Caterina Sforza and Forli which is not only inaccurate but also pretty lame, imo.

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I'd like to add that the "10 more sons" comment should not have been such an insult or threat to Juan.

I actually laughed, as Caterina appeared to be a menopausal woman who would be unlikely to even have one more son, let alone ten (excluding daughters). The actress was 48 (though I thought she looked early 50's) when they filmed the scene, and that would be the age of at least a grandma in the 15th century. They didn't have the advanced reproductive technologies of today, which still are unlikely to allow ten more children when a woman is almost 50.

So it would've made more sense that Juan could have laughed AT HER for the seemingly delusional, desperate act and comment! If Caterina had been 21, then maybe it would've been possible...thus a threat of sorts. But, like you, I just didn't get the outrage of this supposed insult.

Maybe the flipping up of her skirt and exposing the genital area was akin to a big "middle finger" gesture?
Nevertheless, Juan could've have immediately embarrassed her with an obvious "you're too old" comeback, or simply made the point to those teasing him about her display.

Bad writing?


"Don't get chumpatized!" - The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters (2007)

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