MovieChat Forums > The Borgias (2011) Discussion > I remember the one plot point that almos...

I remember the one plot point that almost ruined the show for me....


...was the incestuous relationship between my two favourite characters, Lucrezia and Cesare.

I wish the writer/director had of handled it differently, .e.g. made it an amorous and flirtatious bond but without the banging. It could have easily stayed a platonic love and they could have ignored and laughed at the rumours. Perhaps, even purposely feeding the rumours for their own amusement while in public view.

I realize that it probably went on during those times but I was crushed when it actually happened and I never looked at those two the same way.

I did not have a problem with them scheming and murdering to survive the brutal world they lived in but Incest is where I draw the line for my two leads.

It almost made me switch off at the time and is the sole reason why I never ended up buying the DVD box set to re-watch the show.

Now I await the replies that say I'm a prude.

Btw, historically speaking did Cesare and Lucrezia actually have an affair?

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Btw, historically speaking did Cesare and Lucrezia actually have an affair?


Historically, all we have is evidence of RUMOURS of incest. It's up to each and everyone to assess these rumours rationnally - the only rational conclusion being: we'll never know. All we can know is that there were rumours, and we can try and analyze the reasons for such rumours.

I don't think it makes you a prude to find incest distasteful. I do think however that if you distanciated yourself more from fictional characters, you wouldn't mind incest in a ficitonal setting, as is the case in this series. But not everyone reacts the same emotionnally speaking to fiction. I sometimes cry when I watch fiction, so I guess being turned off a show by something like incest is just the same kind of instinctive response.

"Occasionally I'm callous and strange."

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If you were ok with all the scheming and murder in the show, but "draw the line" at incest, you may need to reevaluate your own ethics and morality.

There's no actual historical basis for the rumors. They were started by rival families.

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Why should he/she? It's a fictional show. Get a grip.

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I disagree. I think the incestuous relationship between Lucrezia and Cesare was the most intriguing thing about the show.

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The funny thing about this show, is that apart from being historically inaccurate, there is no actual way of it being historically accurate. They only have the outcome of the facts that happened back then, but most of what this family is accused for is rumors and never been proved. Personally I blame the dude who wrote the novel of the Godfather for the reputation of this family, because he based his gangster characters on the Borgias. Thus, taking down the family, and creating a sinister opinion of them without any proof of them being like that. Especially Lucrezia, she is considered to be a poisoner, and her name is even mockingly refered to any woman who used poison as a weapon of choice, but she was never proven to be a poisoner. On the contrary, she was considered to be a very charming woman, who used her charm and her wits to gain wealth, she even had a business mind to accumulate wealth of her own.

In the start of the show, it shows Roderigo buying off the votes for his election, but historically he didn't need to,he was already in the lead to be elected.And the other rivals of the elections had the means to bribe anyone as did Roderigo. What we know about this family, is that they did work for the family's wellbeing and accumulation of wealth and power, but who else wouldn't do so? They did almost what all politicians do right now. Assign their families on high places 😉. They were reported to arrange orgies, and even been seen taking part in some, but hey that was Rome!

There was never a proof for murder, only rumors, never a proof of incest, only rumors, and it is only normal because at that time of history every political act was done in the hush hush. Everywhere, not only the Vatican. So, Cesare and Lucrezia had a very strong bond as siblings, and that is indeed historically correct, but it was never proven that they indeed get down to it. But slander was a strong diplomatic card back then, and of course the rival families used it.

Now this show is very vaguely based on historical facts. It is more a work of fiction based on this family than actual history inspired show. And to be honest that didn't bother me. When making a show historical inaccuracies are to be expected because it is impossible to make one faithful to history without being confusing and boring. Same happened with Tudors, although there they did hang around to finish the story unlike the Borgias... In Tudors they killed off characters to create a more dramatical feeling , they merged historical characters into one to just get the story going and not confuse the viewers. There is a vast difference between a successful entertainment show and a Historical documentary. One makes you empathize with characters and makes you feel surprised even if you know how the story goes, the other is a cold and accurate state of facts for those who just want to educate themselves. But a show needs to be entertaining, so, some plot twists and inaccuracy is expected.

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I realize this is a few years old now, but I just got around to watching this show and this was the point where the show really lost me also. It had major problems before this, but the incest just seemed like a desperate attempt to get people talking. If you read the interviews, it's clear Jordan resisted going that route until the end. The whole 3rd season was a mess after this.

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I realize this is a few years old now, but I just got around to watching this show and this was the point where the show really lost me also. It had major problems before this, but the incest just seemed like a desperate attempt to get people talking. If you read the interviews, it's clear Jordan resisted going that route until the end. The whole 3rd season was a mess after this. The scene where they started making out when reunited was just stupid.

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