MovieChat Forums > Puncture (2012) Discussion > Why syringes at all?

Why syringes at all?

posted 12 years ago by pmalt
14 replies | jump to latest

These issues around a 19th century delivery technology amaze me. We've had the ability to use forced air to inject substances now for about thirty years or more. Companies like Bioject have been around since 1985 and we have the ability to eliminate this anachronistic, needle-driven method of delivery forever. The real battle should be fought over an alternative delivery system; of course hospitals (and personal users) are going to continue relying on obsolete technology because of inertia and other human quirks. We are wedded to throwbacks like the internal combustion engine too. But "stick" around and perhaps we'll see all "hypodermic" syringes and road-to-wellville stuff like that go the way of phrenology.

[–] original_k 12 years ago

Did you see the movie?

It's about how the technology is there but Big Business doesn't care. Cash is king and in this movie one guy fights that greedy crown, but a knight in shining armor, he is not.

[–] alveolate 12 years ago

the OP is making a valid point, albeit slightly different from the movie's premise (bear in mind the story happened 7 years ago).

there really is an inexplicably slow uptake of new tech... even in the face of how cumbersome needles are versus the ease of use in forced-air delivery systems (and other needle-free systems). check this article out: http://www.madehow.com/Volume-6/Needle-free-Injection-System.html

you can click Bioject's weblink at the bottom of that page.

the movie is about the (fast becoming trite) greed of corporations and how a messed up politico-economy may conspire to obstruct justice, cause widespread harm, and incur massive costs. the lawyering is really just a narrative framework for the injustice to be exposed -- the underlying message is actually quite similar to the Enron fiasco, Halliburton in Iraq (Fahrenheit 9/11) and the more recent sub-prime crisis (The Inside Job).

the OP's point includes how new tech is sometimes ignored for other less-sinister reasons, such as force of habit or misinformed disincentives. other times, it's simply due to burnt out logistics departments who do not have the time to seek out new alternatives or test them or to retrain all the staff members.

[–] TheFonzz 12 years ago

well said shakespear

I'm going to open a cross dressing store and name it "Susan B. Anthony"

[–] Grizzly101 12 years ago

I agree. Where possible we should use the best technologies available. The question is, how much does a forced air delivery system cost? For businesses, it's all about providing cost-effective solutions, and health care is no different. Just as Retractable Technologies Inc ("Safety Point" in the movie) works to drive down costs for its safety needle, forced air delivery system technology manufacturers are working to do the same. Who wins will be decided by the market.

There are no problems that cannot be solved with a can of brake clean and a lighter

[–] holdek01 12 years ago

So windfall profits are more important than human lives to you?

[–] Grizzly101 12 years ago

That's not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that in order for private enterprise (i.e. the market) to deliver these life-saving syringes to those who need them most, the costs need to be brought down to the point where they are competitive with other presently available alternatives, such as plastic syringes. This is how companies, as opposed to governments or charitable organizations, are able to afford to do business.

There are no problems that cannot be solved with a can of brake clean and a lighter

[–] holdek01 12 years ago

Um, no. Safety protocols almost always cost more money, in almost all industries, whether in equipment, time, manpower, or other advanced technology. That's why safety regulations are mandated by the government across the board so that the playing field is equal.

[–] fan1982 12 years ago

Forced air can't inject into a vein, or draw blood. The point of the movie is that even after everything, most hospitals still use non-safety needle, not out of "inertia and other human quirks", but because of greed, and cost.

[–] davidsask 12 years ago

I find the ending so sad, and inexplicable that greed wins over humanity when such a simple solution. I blame the USA as I doubt if other countries had the patent etc. they would do the same crap but I am being "huge" optimist here lol.

[–] kschubert99 12 years ago

There's multiple problems with your amazing "forced air devices" that keeps them from being the standard in the medical field, and despite your astounding use of big boy words, youve obviously not done the research to know this.

1.) any type of "forced air" unit has the potential to do just that. any air pockets in the body can end up in the blood stream, causing an air emboli in the lungs or cardiac blood vessels that are usually fatal. is it worth saving a little pain from a tiny needle?

2.) there's no way to do a forced air injection into a vein. it's impossible. so with a forced air injection system youre really only eliminating intramuscular and subcutaneous injections.

3.)forced air is an unreliable injection method and placement of the actual medication is unremarkable. if your child is a type 1 diabetic wouldnt you want to make sure their insulin was delivered properly? if your grandma has an extensive stroke history wouldnt you want to make sure anticoagulant therapy is delivered properly? well then, insulin and heparin must be administered inbetween the outer layer of subcutaneous fat and the deepest layer of skin cells. this has to be done with a needle, sorry.

4.) Forced air injections require that the actual medication passes through the skin and into the deeper tissues. numerous medications, including almost all chemotherapy medications are toxic to skin, muscle tissue, and adipose tissue. the drugs must be directly administered into a large central vein, usually the subclavian vein near the heart. so all those drugs are eliminated too. So this mostly just leaves intramuscular pain med injections and vaccines that are favorable for your forced air injections right?

5.) the most common vaccine out there is the influenza vaccine, which can now be administeres via nasal mist, so whats the point of forced air? thats out. delivery of medications for acute pain is most effective intravenously, and chronic pain meds are almost always delivered orally or transdermally (patch) so theyre all out too.

6.) IV fluids are administered to basically every inpatient so they have an IV catheter anyway during a hospital stay, so you have a pre-existing port of entry for medications.

I could go on and on, but im tired, and i think ive effectively made your point moot.

[–] juxtapose70 11 years ago

And you made sure of it in a most arrogant way. Well done! Do you work for the GOP???

"...I have nipples, Greg. Could you milk me?"

[–] hovaoc149 9 years ago

Great post. but you didnt explain what anachonronstic (sp) means?

[–] horst-kackebart 9 years ago

An air embolism is usually unproblematic. You just breathe them out. That's what your lungs are made for, a whole lot of gas exchange.

Amounts large enough to lock down the heart would actually be difficult to deliver through a superficial vein.

If however you have an open foramen ovale, which about every 4th person does, air CAN slip through and return straight back into the systemic cycle where it would end up in an artery without such an easy way out. This is really bad since all the tissue that is supplied by blood from these blocked vessels alone will eventually die. Still, tiny amounts will usually go by unnoticed.

[–] psalmverse6-844-865746 8 years ago

"K"... Thank you very much,for points well-made. I wish that there were more brains like you who were able to put forth their thoughts and ideas in a commonsense, compact format. I wish that there were more people like you who could stop and look seriously at a situation and devise a way around it. I think the safety needle is a wonderful device. I have been a recent recipient of it's benefits and while it is not perfect yet, it works and I believe it does keep people safe . Thank you "K".