First of all, I am not a so called truther. I am an American who wants to see justice. You are right, it was wrong of me to call you an idiot. You haven't awoke and seen what is real.
You ask me to answer a question but you have yet to answer mine. How did cave desert dwellers accurately steer jet airplanes from distances flown, into the trade towers and the Pentagon? How did they turn transponders off? There is no science, nothing but common sense? Yet you dodge the question? You are going to tell me you can say with a straight face, that you believe they could have held all those people hostage with box cutters? Only on one flight did they fight back?
WTC 7 survivor Barry Jennings came forward and discussed what happen. What he saw.....he was threatened. He eventually released a statement. He is dead now. Died in 2008.
Beverly Eckert, her husband died in the towers. She never believed the story and did numerous interviews. She died in a plane crash.
A janitor from the trade towers, Ken (not sure last name but you can research), he reported there were explosions in the basement. He is now dead, an apparent suicide?
Paul Smith, he was one of the Chopper Pilots who caught the plane hitting tower 2. Killed by a cab driver in an apparent road rage chase.
This next one would appear to be not credible based on her line of work. Deb Palfrey, she was a hooker. She said she had evidence that would blow the lid off 9/11. She was on a radio broadcast and the announcer ask her if she intended on killing herself (as an apparent morbid joke or a point that some witnesses had died so forth). She said she intended on exposing the 9/11 and had no intentions of killing herself. Sadly not to long after the radio broadcast, some weeks later she was found dead in her shed, an apparent 'suicide'.
These are just a few....there are many more. Yes if you sift through the list of them all, some could be coincidence but how much can one attribute to that? People killing themselves, strange accidents? Really?
So, to answer your questions.....people have went to the 'press'. Many are dead because of 'natural causes', or some suicide. Also you have to understand the press is controlled by the very group who pulled off 9/11. In fact if you research you will see some of the people who have come forward. If you really believe the 'press' hates Bush, then you aren't seeing the reality.
As to coming forward for those involved, you have to realize what kind of people they are. You don't know evil, until you look into the hearts of those involved. Pure evil, and just as the so called 'Terrorists' of the official story, those involved with the true story were surely promised something very similar.
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MJohnsontalker
11 years ago
Forgot to add, think about this. Four planes, none of them had the 'random' US Marshall aboard. The Terrorists had to somehow get into the Cabin to fly the plane. You wouldn't dispute me on that fact. correct?
Ok first thought, they held someone hostage using the box cutter, demanding the door be open. Would at least one of the four planes immediately call a mayday or something they were being hijacked?
Second thought, they broke down the door? So while they are breaking down the door, wouldn't at least one of the Pilots or Co-Pilots from the four planes call in they were being hijacked?
Third thought, they were able to sneak there way in? Ok on one, maybe two planes at the most! But all four? Could they really be that lucky?
This has nothing to do with how the buildings fell, science or such. This is just logic and common sense.
What part of this 'official' story that they fed us, sounds real?
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Erik-Bloodaxe
11 years ago
So what actually happened on the planes, in your view?
"Knowledge is cheap at any price"
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MJohnsontalker
11 years ago
I don't really believe the planes that crashed were the Jet airliners they were suppose to be. If you look at close up pictures of some they are all gray. Drone planes maybe? Some believe there were no planes at all. I believe planes of some sort hit the trade towers, this with material that was already put within the walls of the trade towers during several nights prior to the attack. This is mainly based on things I have read and videos I have watched. Including footage I taped on 9/11
Now what happen to the 'real' planes, is a question that those involved with it and God only know. Unless the planes were on remote control, like the Pilot episode of 'The Lone gunman'. Where they address the storyline of a terrorist attack on American soil, involving crashing a jet into the twin towers, that is controlled by remote. Air date early 2001.
The question of flight 93 is one that will remain a mystery. Rumsfield in an interview mentions a plane they shot down, a slip he quickly corrects but still it was made.
Here is another thing to think about. Read where the plane from the Pentagon came from. Read what kind of turns it would have had to make. In addition, It would have nearly had to land to crash into the Pentagon at the speed and angle they claim. Do you really believe a desert cave dweller mastered landing a jet after training on small planes?
Too much evidence points to cover up.
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xMCGRUBERx
10 years ago
They didnt really start putting marshels on planes until after 9/11 numb nutz. Sure there were some before but not alot. Even post 9/11....1 in 4 planes dont have a marshel on it. Real solid arguement there. How many planes are in the air any given day? Probably a couple thousand. So u think its suspicious marshels werent on those 4 planes out of the 1000's in the air that day? Thats incredibly circumstantial! Thats not even worthy of being called a coincidence.
How did cave dwellers learn to fly planes? Hahaha well thats easy. They took flying classes where they were taught to....wait for it.....fly! This is a known fact! They took flying courses. Instructors thought it was suspicious( in hindsight)they didnt want to learn how to land, but 9/11 hadnt happened yet. If they wanted to be extra cautious they could of alerted the FBI or somethingi. Pretty sure it was on a single engine plane. Big difference between a commerical jet that was used. Lol that is very astute of you. Atleast your good with shapes and sizes. Yes im sure taking off and landing may take extra training. But once in the air im sure its the same. Left is left and right is right. Have u ever heard of a flight simulator? Theres a ton of instructional flight simulators. They make them for all aircrafts pretty much. Fyi you can buy or torrent them for your home computer. On there they could of easily honed in on their navigational skills. Remember they didnt need to learn how to take off or land, merely steer the plane. S**t man i could do that.
Ive heard OTHER Truthers say "Why didnt the military shoot down the second plane after first hit?". Well there wasnt alot of time inbetween attacks. By the time they knew what was happening, shooting down the second plane over the city would have been even worse. Thats the military shooting down a commercial jet full of civilians over a populated area. The plane wasnt checking in prior to impact. Ok thats definitely concering at a time like that. Before i shoot it down I would have to ask the question how common is that? Out of all the planes in the air how many werent checking in? Unaware of the situation at hand of course. Should they have just started shooting down everyone not checking in?
Also saying truthers are mostly republican is the dumbest thing ive ever read on imdb and maybe ever. Its the 100% the opposite. That statement alone lost whatever little remaining credibility u had. That puts u @ negative 1.Truthers are mainly bleeding hearts liberals, Hate the us goverment, paranoid about the goverment and cover ups, protesting etc, yet still demand the goverment takes care of them. So stupid. Conspiracies are a popular genre in general. Both sides of course have followers. But definitely more liberals. Personally I would find a republican source much more credible. I find reps are more of the critical thinking type and liberals are the emotional thinking types. But thats ok we need those to sometimes. Liberals are like emo teenagers rebelling against their parents left for college and directed their angst towards the goverment. Yet still want their allowance. Reps are the parents that have to stop them from doing something crazy and screwing up to bad.
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xMCGRUBERx
10 years ago
I feel bad about being so combative with you. Its just so obnoxious to see you calling people sheep because they arent buying your crap(no offense). Its full of holes and logical explanations. I just read the next posters response that said alot of same things i just did. U heard him out. U said they were good points. I to have to work on my conduct on here. Actually i havnt been posting lately because its usually argumentative and leads to ugliness. U do know alot about conspiracies, i can tell. U actually look into alot of stuff. But from a biased perspective. U love conspiracies man. Nothing wrong with that. But thats how u look at stuff. LOOKING for a conspiracy. The explanations i made and that other poster made were very similar. They also immediately came to mind after reading your theories. Almost like common sense that was over looked. Like the whole number of air marshals thing. Or the fact that the terrorist did infact have flight training. Yet your mind still went to well...they trained on small planes. "Thats a big difference than a jet". Which is also easily explained. Flying a plane big or small. Up is up, down is down, left is left, right is right. Doesnt take rocket science for someone with pilot training to veer right and fly into a building. Or the fact that they could of trained using a flight simulator. Took the training course for hands on experience prior to mission. That is a great example belief perseverance. Dismissing obvious, rational explanations or failing to see them to begin with, and only interpreting things in ways that will make your theory or beliefs more sound. But dismissing logically obvious ones first. Like with the air marshals. The first thought in my head was well... How many air marshals are in the air usually? They cant be on every flight now can they? Good questions.
Alot of your "facts" u stated have been pretty much debunked here. If each of your facts represented the bricks of a building, it would of collapsed. To many gaps and missing bricks. The building couldnt support itself and neither does the theory anymore. I mean if u overlooked things as routine and obviously as " active air marshals" and "flight training" thing, u must question everything u came to believe about conspiracies(not just 9/11). I mean what else have you overlooked on your quests for answers? I mean those two examples had logical answers that most people would of naturally arrived at or atleast considered first.
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MJohnsontalker
10 years ago
No they have not been debunked!? How can you debunk the fact that as you claim, these terrorist people learned on a simulator. It is not the same thing. Your claim that all of them on each plane had to understand how to turn off tracking, fly the planes to their destination. For a minute, think how stupid that sounds. You never flew a commercial plane, only on a simulator as you claim, yet in mid air, you could accurately turn the plane and find its mark? Really? Can you honestly say that without laughing your rear end off?
Ok the air marshals aside, are you telling me that no one on those planes, accept the one that crashed, would stand up to someone who had a box cutter? Woman with purses have a more deadly weapon then a box cutter? It makes no sense? Can you honestly say you wouldn't fight for your life?
As to democrats and Republicans, all those claims. They are two sides to the same coin. One thing you can't argue with me on is, that the normal joe smoe doesn't run the United states. MONEY does. The rich do! Money talks, BS walks.
Do you honestly think that the story they tell us is the absolute truth?
You will never convince me that someone who has lived in a country like that, learned the technology of a commercial Airliner in that period of time to accurately crash planes into the Pentagon.
In additions, where is the footage of a plane crashing into the Pentagon?
Why did a trusted news reporter say there was no evidence a plane crashed at the Pentagon, and he came out and said he didn't believe the official story. He's dead now of course, strange?
Why did someone in the 'sub basement' of the trade towers say they felt an explosion , prior to the plane hitting the building? This can't be debunked, the guy is still alive.
There is footage of witnesses who were there saying there were bombs?
Why was it necessary to use a 'paid' actor to get the plane story out there? This can't be debunked! Its a fact.
How were telephone calls made from cell phones from a plane? This never has been fully explained? I don't know about you, but any cell phone I ever owned has never worked in the air!
Why wasn't the trade towers treated as a crime scene? It was the biggest 'terrorist' attack on American Soil. Yet all the evidence was removed and destroyed?
None of this sounds strange to you? Taped evidence of the owner of building 7 saying they decided to 'pull it and then we watched the building collapse'.
There is too much evidence that contradicts the 'official story'. So if they lied to us in part, doesn't the whole story come into question?
Its sad when people are so set on believing what they are 'told' and don't do research. But you keep believing our government has our backs. That we live in a safe society. We are 'protected' by those in power. That is your choice.
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luv_to_shop
11 years ago
I respect your post, TmTalker. Now, you said that I did not answer your question as to how 'cave desert dwellers' could have flown the planes without having previous experience. Now, I could have sworn that I recall that they had taken flight courses for months in preparation for the attack. Also, you ask about why they were able to hold people hostage with box cutters. Well, try to picture it from their point of view. They were probably be terrified out of their wits. Some of those passengers witnessed crew members being brutally murdered in front of them, don't forget that. And you really think people that terrified are all going to have the same collective desire to fight back? Most of them were probably more concerned with saying their final goodbyes to their loved ones, others were probably too scared to do anything. You're trapped thousands of feet in the air with a bunch of religious extremists with box cutters (which are very sharp by the way) who have already killed people right before them. What else is there to do once you know you're going to die? The flight that fought back was able to do so because they were told of the hijacking plot and that they weren't the only ones. The other flights didn't have that opportunity.
Now, the Air Marshal question you brought up has an easy answer. According to what I found online, there were only 33 Air Marshals who were on flights that day. They didn't used to put them on every single flight, just ones considered to be high risk (certain international flights, etc), and only after 9/11 did Bush call for an increase in the number of Air Marshals on flights. Nothing bizarre there. It's similar to the increase in security at airports after the attacks. It wasn't really that tight before compared to what it was following the attack.
As for why the terrorists were so successful in holding people hostage and getting their way into the cockpits, well it's not like they didn't prepare and practice these scenarios hundreds of times. And how many people do you know who would be able to confront a crazed religious fanatic with a box cutter held to someone's neck, waiting to kill them at any second?
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MJohnsontalker
11 years ago
luv_to_shop, you have some good points. The thing is I have stared death in the face. Not as extreme as this but with a knife wielding psycho. I chose to fight and fight I did.
I just find it very hard to believe that even with months of training on small air craft, they would have mastered a Jet airplane. 'Its a different kind of flying, all together'. Think about a small plane and then a jet. The type of engines, the controls, the gauges. All different.
I also find it hard to believe that they were successful on all four planes at getting into the cockpit. Maybe one, two at the most?
I agree with you on the US Air Marshal, they were randomly on planes. When you are doing independent research see how many US Marshals were on planes prior to 9/11 on many given days. Check that number against what it was on 9/11?
We know the official story says the people on flight 93 fought back. If that is the case, why on only this one plane? You know that that there were woman on that plane that had to have purses that could have been used as weapons. People with laptop bags? Powerful weapons against someone holding a box cutter?
At any rate, I apologize again for calling you an idiot. As you know I said I could be a bully. I am working on that!
Lets just agree to disagree ;)
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luv_to_shop
11 years ago
That's OK, apology accepted. Sometimes I overreact myself for some reason when I'm on these boards. And yes, even though we disagree, I respect your opinion.
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xMCGRUBERx
10 years ago
A purse or laptop against a box cutter is a awesome weapon if your jackie chan. How did they steer the and navigate the planes? Umm...i dunno? Put a box cutter to the pilots throat. Told him to fly towards new york. Then took over once within view? I know given the situation thats seems highly unlikely(sarcasm). I mean Its not like they were being held hostage or anything. But its irrelevant because we all know it was acutally grey drones that terrorist flew into the towers and that david copperfield made the 2 real jets and its passengers disapper.
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MJohnsontalker
10 years ago
Really? A purse would knock the hell out of someone. You can honestly sit there and type that you believe no one would fight for their life? Honestly?
Knife to throat, ok but how did they accurately crash the plane into the Pentagon? No pilot would have done that? So in theory lets say they flew toward the Pentagon, how the heck did they nearly land the plane, avoiding cameras and crash? Still have some lame excuse. Maybe he held a knife to the pilots throat and said if you don't crash I'll kill ya!! ROFLMAO!
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xMCGRUBERx
11 years ago
Hey MJ, i see u on a bunch of threads calling people sheeps cause they dont believe in some of your ramblings. It also a known fact that the terrorist had hours of flight school. As a matter of fact one of the red flags that should of indicated something was up is because all of these terrorist only wanted to learn how to fly the plane and not take off or land. Once a plane is in the air its probably not to difficult for even a amatuer pilot to crunch in coordinates and set autopilot or simply coast into a giant tower. Assuming that alot of piloting knowledge transfers over from aircraft to aircraft, even someone unfimilar with that model could figure out how. Otherwise vice versa would a commerical jet pilot need special training to fly a small air craft like a cessna? I do however think its a little sheepish to think that just because someone has slept in a cave before they couldnt learn how to fly a plane. Personally i float in the middle nither left or right. Even when I do feel a little leftish on a issue its really hard to relate to a lefty. I find them well... Crazy. Usually leads to a paraniod driven conversation with fear of authority with undertones of anarchy. I do also find how a previous poster listed that alot of info i hear from that side seems to be 1 sided, taken out of context and making connections that just arent there or supported. Like a michael moore film lol. Also as far as getting intel about the attack prior to 9/11 is blown out of porportion. They heard about this back when clinton was in office. The person that was following up on it was laid off when clinton cut half our military. The guy in the cia passed the file on with many others. Now even if thats accurate, how many terrorist OR national threats do we(USA)get a day? If you were thinking maybe a few hundred..youd probably be right. So we were supposed to prevent from some attack from intel from a ex-agent that was passed on many years ago?
As far as people on the scene saying bombs are going off as proof.... Pfft. Really? In the pandemonium, smoke and chaos people thought it was bombs? How is that possible? Yep must be a cover up right? No retarded. How good of visiblity is the skyline in new york from the street? Probably really bad. They may have not scene the plane is the most likely scenario. Also maybe there were bombs. Its possible with the explosions in the footage. But wtf do u think the goverment planted them and not the terrorist? Did that even dawn on you? There goal was to crash into the towers well... Maybe that was plan B or just to make sure they go down. Either of those suggestions seem alot of likely considering a network of terrorist took responsibility for leading to a large scale army assault and destroyed them.
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MJohnsontalker
11 years ago
>>Once a plane is in the air its probably not to difficult for even a amatuer pilot to crunch in coordinates and set autopilot or simply coast into a giant tower<<
So you think 'probably' these terrorists were suppose to, after a some hours of flight school on a small air craft, be able to accurately take the controls of a jet airliner, know the coordinates of the Trade towers, go off course and hit the towers and or the Pentagon? Really? Do you realize how silly that sounds. Repeat it to yourself.....I can't believe you don't get it!? Or maybe perhaps you do and you are starting to wake up and are going through these things in your mind.
Here is the thing though. Start watching old footage on Youtube.....and I mean REALLY watch it. Listen to interviews from the fireman who were there and witnesses. Research how many survivors, families of survivors and workers question the official 'story'. If these terrorists planted bombs in the buildings, how did they get them in there?
The official story does not add up......
A cave dweller accurately was able to nearly land the plan and crash it into the Pentagon.
No black boxes, which are designed to survive crashes....SURVIVED. Not even the one that went down in the field?
If part of the story comes into question, wouldn't you question the whole thing?
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heyuactor
11 years ago
As far as people on the scene saying bombs are going off as proof... Pfft. Really? In the pandemonium, smoke and chaos people thought it was bombs? How is that possible?
Well that's a nice argument except the people I've seen on youtube reported they heard explosions, as if they
could have been bombs. Hearing explosions makes the thing suspicious.
Also yeah and what happened to the voice and data recordings, the super-tough black boxes? If a passport of an alleged highjacker survived, made of paper, how come the black boxes didn't??? Suspicious. Where's his body? Burned up, crushed into dust? Yet the passport was intact?
Keep an open mind.
"Did you make coffee...? Make it!"--Cheyenne.
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MJohnsontalker
10 years ago
And someone who was in the sub basement of the towers, clearly heard a bomb go off before the planes even hit! How do you explain that one?
He's still alive too! His story has not changed!
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