MovieChat Forums > The Tillman Story (2010) Discussion > Is what the Army did really that bad?

Is what the Army did really that bad?


People are using words such as cover up and propaganda, as if their was some sinister intention. I can understand why the family would be upset about not being told the actual events of their son's death. However, I don't think wanting to paint the man as a hero (which he was anyway) is such a bad thing. I think everyone including the mans family would have preferred that he died doing something heroic, rather than as the result of tragic mistake.

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While I don't agree that the Army should have broadcasted lies about the man's death (playing it up just because he was a football star), I don't think it is a ground-breaking, earth-shattering revelation that they did it. Is this one lie so bad, we need a movie being made? I mean, if anyone else had died who was NOT a sports celeb, and the Army lied about the cause, would there be a movie? Just by this reasoning alone, it seems to me that this movie was made just so people could have an excuse to point fingers at the military and President Bush. Split some hairs, why don't you? Like the OP said, it's not like they tried to make him out as a deserter or something. Their crime is using this man's popularity to bring about attention, which is pretty much what Hollywood is doing. Only the Army didn't make a 'thought-provoking' documentary about it to be shown in theatres (and apparently, if they have their way, classrooms) throughout the country.

I've got two good posts in me and I just wrote my third...

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I find your comments truly frightening but will answer your questions anyway. No, there would not be, has not been, a movie made about every lie your government has told about everyday people who have died under suspicious circumstances in your military. This film was made because your government covered up the circumstances of this person's desk than compounded the crime by exploiting his celebrity and reputation in an act of grotesque propaganda that he would have abhorred. Your government dishonored his service to perpetuate it's own deceptive policies.

There are no hairs to be split in evaluating the ethics of what was done to Pat Tillman, his family and the people of this country in the deranged exploitation of his death. There is no way to justify it in a purported democracy.

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Let me ask you this: Do you know that Tillman wasn't murdered? I'm not suggesting that he was, but covering up how he died can cover up a little or a lot. We don't know. And if it was to support an already questionable war--so that questions wouldn't be asked about that, then, yes. It's pretty awful what the military and, it seems clear from the film, political leaders did to misrepresent someone's death.

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I think this question is still up in the air. Multiple head shots in close proximity? (Not that multiple shots in the head can be that far apart). Hard to fathom it being friendly. If sniper, the view through the scope would be a US helmet and Tillman's face. Evidence immediately burned? Is that standard procedure for other known scenarios?

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[deleted]

The cover up isn't just what was reported as a press release, evidence was destroyed and the events that transpired were manipulated. It's very possible that Pat's death wasn't an accident, and that is the main concern about what the military did. If it was a member of your family, you would not be so glib about it. You automatically assume it was a tragic mistake, I make no such assumptions. If the military took such a major undertaking to change the course of events of how Pat died, it most likely was more than just for the sake of propaganda.

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Are you suggesting he may have been fragged.

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Yes, I believe that it's possible. I am not the only one, even retired General Wesley Clark believes he may have been murdered.

"Army medical examiners concluded Tillman was shot three times in the head from just 10 yards away, no evidence of “friendly fire” damage at scene, Army attorneys congratulated each other on cover-up, Wesley Clark concludes “orders came from the very top” to murder pro-football star because he was about to become an anti-war political icon."

http://ctpatriot1970.wordpress.com/2010/05/02/nfl-star-pat-tillman-ant i-war-american-hero-was-executed-3-m-16-shots-to-his-face-video/

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He probably wasn't fragged, but the fact that he was vocally disapproving of the Iraq war, and corresponding with the likes of Noam Chomsky, certainly establishes motive. Why did they destroy his personal effects?

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Please…Wesley Clark, now there's a name you can trust...what a load of *beep* this is, if what you've posted is true along with the link, the liberal press would have been all over this like stink on *beep* that fact alone blows your conspiracy theory all to hell!

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", the liberal press would have been all over this like stink on *beep* that fact alone blows your conspiracy theory all to hell!" I wouldn't be so sure of that. Mainstream news is mainstream news and they always hold to the official story.

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Do you people realize that the "mainstream" news is as bad as any propaganda there has ever been in any country? Watch your local news tonight. Watch the nightly news at 5:30 nationally. Tillman was "supposedly" killed by militants. He WAS killed by American soldiers from around 50 yards. I dont know why or if there was any motive but the army tried to cover things up. They quieted the soldiers and destroyed evidence. He was a professional football player who gave up a life of luxury to fight in the army and the way he was treated was disgusting.

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I'm not so sure of that, it wouldn’t have stopped the likes of MSNBC's liberal hosts such as Rachel Meadow, Keith Oberman or Chris Matthews for a second. I know MSNBC isn’t considered "mainstream", but again, if there was any truth of Tillman being executed because he had reservations about the war these liberal news groups would have been all over this.

If solely for nothing more than their pure "hatred" of George Bush, anything that could bring down his administration would have surely been sought after, like I said, the liberal media hated George Bush probably more than the conservatives hated Bill Clinton.

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Are you stupid enough to actually believe MSNBC and Fox arent just theatre to keep people divided and ignorant? They are all propaganda and nobody pursues real news anymore..

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I don’t know about being stupid jerk-off, but those before mentioned affiliates got Obama elected, along with 52% of stupid Americans. They toed the Obama line and bought his message hook, line and sinker!

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If you believe that, then you have to believe that another group of idiots were persuaded by Fox News and other Conservative propaganda sources to buy Bush's platform hook, line and sinker.

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Wow, Fox must be pretty powerfull...when you think that there are several more liberal propaganda sources out there than Conservatives that helped Obama get elected, but let me ask you how's that hope and change working out for you?

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Rob
You are an idiot. He died, they lied to the family, to the world. Don't tell me the "liberal media" made this worse than it was. Go back to your FOX world view and save your propaganda. Talk about hatred for a President???????????????????

Welcome to my ignore list!

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I'm not debating, "that he died, they lied to the family and to the world", sh*t for brains...I'm addressing the idiots (liberals) within this post (which no doubt includes you) that say that there was some sort of conspiracy that Tillman was murdered because he intended to come out against the war...they keep spewing accusations but put up no proof...I don’t need Fox to tell me that.

Your ignorance is bliss, but please… ignore away!

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Did my post say anything about a conspiracy? No! Do I think it was a conspiracy? No. Don't put words in my mouth. What I said was, he died, they lied, covered it up, all the way to the top. Not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact. Learn another word than "liberal" when you want to insult people, it's just stupid and shows me your a right wing dick.

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So much for your ignore list...I have plenty of other words that I could use to insult/describe you, but I believe the word "liberal" is what suits you best...due to your ignorance and spite!

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You are hilarious... When I read comments from you, I wonder if you are for real or just a troll/flamer. To you all liberals are ignorant and spiteful? How do you even define a liberal, this word that you throw around so liberally?
Anyone who doesn't believe the same thing as you? Anyone who thinks that Fox news is not fair and balanced?

To me, people like you are the reason why there is very little respect from the rest of the world for America and Americans. Some Americans are wonderful, intelligent people, but so many are like you... so blinded, illogical and hateful.

Every one of your comments are so full of hate and a jumble of sh*t stirring words. It's all feeling and no logic with you.

It is a shame that you will always be like this and never be able to see the world with an open mind and open eyes. So sheltered and angry... what a shame.

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This is not directed at any one person but I had to say something.

Firstly, all this dismissive talk about conspiracy bothers the crap out of me. When it was 9/11 everyone dismissed every single thing that was totally wrong with that day, all the misleading info, the destroyed evidence, the horrible investigation and the stuff that was just plain physically impossible, mostly because they think "ALL THESE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED, THAT'S TIN FOIL HAT STUFF." (which is just plain ignorant).

Now you have the Pat Tillman thing and people still don't use the word conspiracy for anything other than to mock those asking questions.

I got news for you people, conspiracies happen all the time and in government as well. Just for the covering up of the friendly fire incident, you have a conspiracy from the start. After that point it's on the government to explain itself, because THEY lied. Since a lot of the things they told the Tillman family was suspect, there's ample reason to think he might have been killed on purpose.

Maybe someone in his platoon didn't like him or his anti-war sentiment, maybe it was negligence or maybe someone ordered his death.

One of the things I will never understand is WHY people have such a hard time believing that someone in our government or military would order a fellow Americans death or why they think the government doesn't have hired killers on the payroll? This always makes me wonder what kind of fairytale land do some Americans live in. The Mob has hired killers but the government doesn't? Really? Does anyone really believe that? Lord, I hope not.

Then you have this type of thinking, "Well, America is a good and honest, god fearing country and we would never do anything like that."

Can you really believe that is how America handles things? Think clearly about it.

America can kill a million Vietnamese or a million Iraqis, sure, no worries there! But kill Pat Tillman, NO, NEVER, NOT IN A MILLION YEARS. WE WOULD NEVER DO THAT, HE'S AN AMERICAN! More wishful thinking and really hard to swallow. I'm not saying he was killed by someone in our government but to dismiss it out of hand is honestly reactionary childlike behavior. Plain and simple. Either that or you just don't know enough about our history or maybe a combo of both.

Folks, it's time to really grow up and understand what a government is and what it does. You can't live with your head buried in the sand forever.

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I hear you talking sh*t head, but where's your proof...talk about a conspiracy, your whole post is nothing but a conspiracy...people like you throw this kind of trash out there but never, ever provide any reliable evidence.

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Use your time more wisely and read a little about the subject before you come here name calling. This is another BIG problem in this country, too many people who don't like to read.

It really doesn't take much to find the proof you are asking for and I'm not hear to teach you.

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I wish our (American) schools would teach subjects such as The USS Liberty, Operation Ajax, and Operation Northwoods. Two time Medal of Honor recipient Smedley Butler should also be mentioned in our history books. And that is just a small start.

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Smedley Butler, now there's an interesting story and one that most Americans should know about.

A Major General and at the time of his death he was the most decorated Marine in US history.

At some point in his life, he was approached by a group of major US corporations to overthrow the government and of course he played along to find out what this was all about and then turned on them, bringing what he learned to the government.

There was a deal made between FDR and the corporations, no one got locked up (Which many should have) and the inquiry into Butlers accusations determined that there WAS a plot but as I said, nothing was done about it.

After this incident, the most decorated marine in US history was vilified and considered a bit of a loon, in most of your media outlets. Not hard to understand how this happens.

You are seeing something very similar here on these boards. 'America, love it or leave it.' The Tillman family seems to be dealing with the same nonsense.

There are always people willing to defend the actions of this country, NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES.

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A couple of months ago I came across your post...

Thank you for wiping the sleep out of my eyes. General Smedley Darlington Butler was my 'red-pill'. I'm over the initial shock now, after listening to Eisenhower & JFK speeches (in their entirity) repeatedly. I'm currently on my second of read "Why Your Country Is At War, and What Happens to You Afterwards" by former Congressman Charles August Lindbergh. I'm already a Libertarian but for some reason or another still had the wool over my eyes re: the Federal Reserve.

I'm happy to say both me and my OIF vet are now wide awake... Just one question:

I feel the pressing need to become a survivalist, is this over reacting?

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I'm a little late on this thread.


I don't know if anyone can say Pat Tillman was murdered. The only significant evidence I've stumbled upon thus far was the fact that he was shot from 10 yards away three times, which confused those in the autopsy. Although that is odd, ten yards is not ten feet. Its still a fairly good distance away, BUT, an American ranger and differentiate from one another, especially if they're next to an american vehicle. It's such a peculiar death...peculiar in the sense of US ranger Dr. Macdonalds "murder" of his wife and daughters. I believe that is a cover up, unequivocally. If you guys aren't aware of that, he was a U.S ranger who served in south america, where he told his wife (who kept a diary) of all the happenings he witnessed with U.S opperatives cooperating with drug smuggling central americans. Although he was guilty for murder, evidence shows there was more than one person at the scene, which were not questioned (Macdonald testified saying he was attacked).

Point is, the military is very esoteric. I truly hate the word "sloppy investigation", which some people would apply for Macdonalds "murder". What if Tillman's incident never leaked, except maybe several small clues, not large enough to unravel the matter...people would simply call it sloppy investigation on whether or not it was friendly fire.

Who knows if it was murder. If it was, its not like anyone will be tried.

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ah! the Esoteric Agenda, it's everywhere, in every nook & cranny... yet the masses remain in asleep.

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Starvenus,

have you been in the military?

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To address the OP, yes it was that bad. The act of lying to preserve emotions of the family wouldn't be, but the act of lying to help sway public opinion on a war that was losing public support is.

To the conspiracy debate, I think it is always naive to place restrictions on greed and power. Do I think 9/11 was an inside job? No. Do I think it is impossible that it was an inside job? No. Same with Pat's death.

And as far as UFO's are concerned, I have always thought the key issue is the addition of time. If the charge was to find a single specific grain of sand in the world, you would say impossible. And if I said it had to be done on, and only on, March 10th 2012, you would say "What's the term for more than impossible?" The length of time we have been here, in a universal sense, is just a blip on the cosmic screen.

If you put it all together, it looks like this: if there was another civilization out there, and they did have technology more advanced than ours, and they did start looking for us, and they did scan our area, it would have to be at this exact moment. No way.

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[deleted]

[Dodging your question] I care for a OIF I & III 19D, thus his ghosts haunt wherever we call home.

Sorry, don't watch much Visual-Progamming anymore, hence the 1.5yrs it took to reply.

Happy 2013.

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I love to read, but you're the one making the accusations...do I think this country's a saint, by no means and I served her for twenty plus years...so again I say to you, show me your "reliable" proof, that's all.

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Tillman being fragged, because he might come out against the Iraq War...definite possibility.

9/11 a US Govt. inside job? Tin foil hat stuff. Sorry, it's been debunked to my satisfaction (and I'm something of an expert on conspiracies).

==JJS==

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"How do you even define a liberal, this word that you throw around so liberally?Anyone who doesn't believe the same thing as you? Anyone who thinks that Fox news is not fair and balanced?"

That's a funny line coming from you, would you use the same sentence to describe a Liberal who didn’t believe or even agreed with a conservative's point of view, no you wouldn’t.

Because Liberals, especially Obama (Obozo), characterize all persons who disagree with him or the party as blinded, illogical and hateful. If you think it only cuts one way you are either very naive or blinded yourself.

My whole point to this discussion was "if" there was a conspiracy to kill Pat Tillman (because he had doubts about the war) as many in this post seem to believe, than they should name there sources and show their proof, neither of which have been produced.

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Hey Rob,

I really don't want to get into a conspiracy discussion with you but I wanted to ask you. Do you ever speculate on anything that you don't have like 10 good references to prove what you are saying is correct?

If I say something like, "from what I have seen and read, Tillmans death deserves more looking into." Does that really need backing up? Honestly?

The 9/11 stuff, well, I've been down that road with a lot of your type before, shown stuff that would cause major doubt in any sane thinking human, only to hear everything I say fall on deaf ears. So I don't waste my time anymore.

However, I really did want to know is EVERYTHING you say FACT or have you ever said anything you couldn't back up with sources?

ADD ON: Oh and can you reply without the name calling and such. I mean honestly, me calling you a stupid conservative kunt really doesn't add anything to the discussion. See what I mean.

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ADD ON: you're right it doesn’t, but you're still an (_*_)...see what I mean.

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robcw3w, good zinger, you got me.

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reelbutter- I must say you have a sense of humor (good thing)...also, I've checked out the listed conspiracies, War Is a Racket, Operations Ajax/Northwood’s and the USS Liberty and let’s not forget the Tonkin Gulf incident as well.

As I've said before, our country isn’t without fault and there are bad individuals on both sides of the aisle and in industry that put our country in a bad light for their gain.

If there was a conspiracy to kill Pat Tillman (who I think is a hero as are all our fighting men and women) it will more than likely come out in time. From the conspiracies listed above that’s a no brainer, someone will eventually nail it and come forth.

Now, if we could only find out if there is any truth to UFO conspiracies!

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LOL yeah, UFO's I'm not too sure about... SPACE is FN BIG. It's possible they might have dropped by a time or two but I doubt they have spent any real time if they had and that is a big if. I have this feeling they would want to steer clear till we humans grow up a bit more.

I'm glad you understand about the nature of governments and big business, including our own. And I admit it's easy to pick at our country, I guess that happens when you are the top dog, it goes with the territory. Also means you usually have your hands in too many things and that always comes with bad things attached.

However, my hope is that we are the last big dog government but not by force but by the force of our ideas. After which time maybe no more big dogs at all, just one big human race on one small planet in an impossibly vast, seemingly endless universe. That UFO - Space is FN BIG thing, works the other way too. There is no plan B planet for us, so all my bitching and speaking and worrying is because of that very fact. THIS planet is all we have. I would like to see us humans make it and not only that but make is well. Something written in the annals of the universe, when humanity took that big step and became so much more than the universe could have ever expected.

I guess I always thought that exposing the bad things we do would be enough to bring about the change I hope for but I'm not so sure anymore. Recently I've come to the conclusion that the things I speak on, government, big business and the deeds they do are but symptoms of the real problem that's bigger than any bad things we have done. So I'm trying to find a better way to change things, haven't found it let but I'm looking, I continue to look.

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My advice to you is, "don’t give up"...I know a lot my posts were...well, closed minded. But believe it or not for a conservative I am open minded...I believe two average Joe's (or Jane's, no matter what side of the aisle we're on) like yourself and I could sit down and solve more problems than our own elected officials, who tend more often than not to pit ourselves against each other.

But like I said, don’t give up and continue to look and find better ways to change things, to make life better, there is certainly nothing wrong with that...good luck and peace!

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My mind goes closed sometimes too, it's why I'm looking for the better way.

Thanks for the advice... From one Joe to another.

Good luck to you also and peace.

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Very touching discussion b/w you two; sincerely touched/affected. Thank you!

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In case you're really interested in the "UFO conspiracies" question...my 26 years of research into the matter tells me that yes, there's a cover-up, but it really doesn't rise to the level of a conspiracy. Basically, the government knows there's SOMETHING to it, but they are ALMOST as much in the dark as we are.

There's no crashed saucers, no Hangar 18, no underground bases. That stuff is just silly. (Think about it...they travel 90 trillion miles at light speed, only to run into a mountain?)

You're a conservative...do you trust Barry Goldwater? He ran smack dab into the cover-up. I have the letters to show it.

Now back to your discussion of Tillman.

==JJS==

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NO one was hated more than Bill Clinton by conservatives. They completed ignored any policy or economic successes and focused solely on Clinton's affinity for unattractive women that were not his wife. Clinton was a good leader and an even better politician but a moral degenerate. Bush was personable and made decisive moves during uncertain times but he placed loyalty above competence with the glaring exception of Cheney who was cunning, disloyal, and Machiavellian--which ultimately proved to be his undoing. At the end of the day, no one is perfect and you weigh the pros versus the cons--Clinton had more pros and Bush had more cons. Bush was easy to hate because of his bull-headed steadfastness to unsuccessful strategies that had a detrimental effect on the country. But I digress... Rob, let go of the vast left-wing conspiracy theories, it makes you sound unintelligent. It reminds me of something my great-grand dad would say...you can't debate an idiot, it's like wrestling a pig in mud--you get dirty and the pig is the only one having fun.

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Mirage- this is a post from the fourth page from "Toky-word"...

He was murdered. The following cover up proves it.

- They burned his personal notebook where he wrote his views on the war. Now there's no reason for that.
-Shots were fired from a modified M16 at a very close range (10 yards). You'd think that a trained marine would fire better.
- He couldnt be fragged because he was popular. If he was killed, the soldier who did it, he was ordered to do so.

Now this comes from a left winger...so now please tell me who's the idiot...this pig here is having all kinds of fun!

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Good message, but I disagree slightly with your contention that "NO one was hated more than Bill Clinton by conservatives." Yeah, they hated him pretty good, but, for example, when he pushed NAFTA, the conservatives were on board - even Rush Limbaugh praised him for that. The level of vitriole against Obama, on the other hand, is downright spastic. Everything he stands for, they're against - EVEN IF THEY WERE IN FAVOR OF IT BEFORE HE WAS ELECTED.

Now THAT'S hatred.

==JJS==

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Thats a ridiculous argument. It can't be factual unless some pundits on a "news" channel report it?That makes no sense at all.The truth is nobody except the people who were there know what happened.

The army destroyed all physical evidence before an investigation could be done. So we will never know what happened.Noam Chomsky did say that he was going to meet with Pat Tillman about his views on the Iraq war after he got back from Afghanistan which were not positive. Also the investigation concluded that there was no evidence of enemy fire and nobody was hit with any enemy fire.Also doctors that did the autopsy said his wounds suggested possible murder.It doesn't look good but we will never know what happened. Also this wouldn't be the first fragging incident during these wars if it did happen.





Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.

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I've heard more about Tillman's death and possible murder on MSNBC than I have anywhere else.

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[deleted]

I tend to agree. Three shots to the head "from wildly firing troops" is so unlikely as to seem impossible. I seriously doubt that his death was accidental.

Yadda yadda yadda <- this is my signature

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So now you're a "ballistics" expert?

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You should probably put expert in quotations rather than ballistics. Assuming your post was meant to question the credibility of the poster and not the science of ballistics.

When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons, and make superlemons.-Principal Scudworth

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You should probably put expert in quotations rather than ballistics. Assuming your post was meant to question the credibility of the poster and not the science of ballistics.


Haha! I very much appreciated this post.

----------
Shouldn't have been cancelled..
-Firefly
-New Amsterdam
-Journeyman
-terriers

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It was worse than bad. It was immoral also. Wake the hell up.

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Pat Tillman was murdered and this is coming from a Republican...

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What Republican, fool...Arlene Specter!

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Arlene Specter is a fence sitter, hence why he changed to the Democratic Party. Anyways some of the things in this thread make me laugh. I truly believe Americans want everything to be a conspiracy. Maybe, just maybe Tillman was killed by accident and the army just wanted to cover it up because someone screwed up. Tillman was a football star and his death would start a media frenzy like his death did. They covered his death up just like when someone at your work messed something up and they wanted to cover that up. Just like at work they caught the lie now they are reeling. There was no conspiracy, no murder plot, no nothing. The army killed Tillman by accident and tried to cover up their screw up. That was the only conspiracy.


http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2604794/

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A family has the right to know the truth on how there loved one die!

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Your argument is ridiculous. To say that it's a good idea to paint him as some gung-ho warrior charging up a hill is insulting to both the Tillman family and Pat's legacy. From what I've read and heard Pat would be disgusted to hear something like that. Pat was a hero but not in the way that simple-minded people like yourself would want to believe. He was a hero for his kindness and humility.

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I think the simple minded person is the one whose rude and uses insults to respond to a person whos asks them to consider something they may not agree with. I really hope telling me off has made you feel good about yourself.

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Please don't try and lecture me about rudeness and insulting behavior, when you've so clearly demonstrated it in your OP. I have every right to call you out on that outrageous and offensive statement. I don't take pleasure in hurting peoples feelings but I will not hold back my distaste for you just so you can go about and demonstrate your ignorance and lack of respect. If you can't handle being told off than you can just keep your mouth shut.

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[deleted]

I just don't understand your level of anger. All your saying is just because I said something you disagree with I'm disrespectful and ignorant. Why do the makers of this documentary have more of right to speak out on this issue than I do.

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aer71367, I understand that the complete circumstances surrounding Pat's death are still unclear and many people have different opinions on what happend. I don't claim that my views are any more or less valid. However, it is not rude for me to take offense to someone saying that a family shouldn't get the full facts of their son's death.

krispykrank, It's disrespectful and ignorant to presume that the Tillman family would rather believe a lie about their loved one than get the actual truth. The makers of this documentary are just as open to criticism as you are, so you have no reason to complain.

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But, I never said that, my post was more about the intentions behind those who covered up his death. I thought that I implied that any family would rightfully feel angry about not being told the circumstances of a loved ones death. I also said the family would have preferred he died doing something heroic, not believing he died doing something heroic. Although friendly fire may be unavoidable in war, when it does happen it is often viewed as a tragic mistake that didn't have to happen. Although we would love for every man and woman to come home, we all know thats not going to happen. And, for some people it may be more acceptable or understandable for someone to be killed as the result of some enemy action. Rather than because someone on their side made a mistake.

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I understand that friendly fire is something that happens in war. Everyone makes mistakes, sometimes fatal ones. But when a mistake is made it needs to be owned up to. Which the Army failed to do.

"However, I don't think wanting to paint the man as a hero (which he was anyway) is such a bad thing."

I got the impression from this statement that you approved of how the government portrayed him to the media. Am I right in this assumption? When you say "paint the man as a hero", do you mean how he was sensationalized and turned into a cartoon character? If so then yes that is a bad thing. Amir Bar-Lev, the director said the Tillman family told him that they felt as though they lost Pat twice because of what was done to his legacy.

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[deleted]

Pat & Kevin Tillman signed up for the military in May 2002. The US invaded Iraq on March 20, 2003. Pat believed the Iraq War was illegal and hating the destruction of innocent civilian lives.

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[deleted]

I was trying to be respectful, because I knew if I wasn't people would react the the same way you did. I'm just saying I can understand why the higher ups did what they did, assuming they weren't using his death for propaganda purposes.

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He was murdered. The following cover up proves it.

- They burned his personal notebook where he wrote his views on the war. Now there's no reason for that.
-Shots were fired from a modified M16 at a very close range (10 yards). You'd think that a trained marine would fire better.
- He couldnt be fragged because he was popular. If he was killed, the soldier who did it, he was ordered to do so. (But I'll admit that this is a big if)

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The following proves "jack"! What are you're sources, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS or NBC?

Please...get real!

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[deleted]

The sky was yellow and the sun was blue.

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Dipsh*t- there is no such title/position as "speaker of the White House", maybe you were thinking/referring to the "Speaker of the House"...but wait a minute, that would mean you could think, period!

Now there is a "mouth piece" for the White House, it's called the "Press Secretary"...this completes your lesson for today...you Idiot.

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I don’t need a star next to my name to know one thing, Wesley Clark is a politician, and that alone means he can’t be trusted.

I served for 20 years, and fought in a war, and yes I know defense contractors make big bucks when a war is fought and could give less than a damn about those who are fighting in it, but what does your comment have to do with the conversation that there was a conspiracy to kill Pat Tillman...nothing jerk-off! Tillman’s antiwar views (if that’s true) even if they were let know publicly wouldn’t have stopped the war.

The only sucker I see here is you...an all day sucker at that!

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YES - the family had a right to know what happened and the fact the Army was willing and able to start a cover-up so quickly should shock and scare EVERYONE!

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Well it was a cover up and propaganda. It was covered up to sell an unpopular war. They also did it with Jessica Lynch. I understand why they did it. He received massive media coverage for turning down a multi-million dollar contract and joining the army. He was painted as a real American patriot. You don't want to report later that he was killed by his fellow soldiers.Its a good thing that the government is so bad at covering things up. Otherwise we wouldn't know *beep*





Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.

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