MovieChat Forums > Waiting for 'Superman' (2010) Discussion > Serious question from a non-teacher

Serious question from a non-teacher

posted 11 years ago by jmsocool
7 replies | jump to latest

I'm not trying to make anyone angry, but do certain kinds of teachers (I'm thinking the subjects they teach) have it easier than others? An English teacher has to come up with lesson plans, try to make fairly dry material interesting, grade papers, homework assignments, exams, etc., often on their time, not during regular school hours. The same goes for Math teachers, Science teachers, etc., but.......what about Gym teachers. There's probably more to it than what I saw when I was a student (btw, I graduated from high school about 30 years ago, so things may have changed), but generally there were very few, if any, quizzes, exams, etc. in gym class. Maybe the teacher would evaluate the students based on their physical activity, but if you tried, and made a decent effort relative to your abilities, and you didn't goof off, you got a good grade. From what I saw, gym teachers would tell you to run laps, do pushups, pull-ups, and that was pretty much it. I don't remember any actual instruction from gym teachers other than "keep your eye on the ball".

I'm sure there were other responsibilities that I didn't see, but those are probably the same kind of things other teachers have to do as well.

Another way to look at it is this, if a Math teacher and a Gym teacher start their careers at the same time, after several years, and both making the same pay, does the Math teacher resent the Gym teacher? "I'm trying to teach these kids geometry and algebra, and he's telling them to run laps."

I am curious about this, and would appreciate any real insight.

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[–] yldr45 11 years ago

Good question. I'm curious about that too. From my understanding, all of the major teachers' unions are opposed to any differential pay within a district based on what the teacher is teaching. And I think the overwhelming majority of school districts do not offer higher pay to teachers of certain subjects. It's just based on seniority and perhaps add-ons for masters degrees. I've got to assume that there has to be some conflicts within the unions about this position. Presumably, most teachers of core subjects like English, math, history, and science believe they should be paid more than teachers of less core subjects. I'm certainly not suggesting that P.E. teachers cannot have a major influence on students lives. They can and so do art and music teachers. And quite frankly, I think I took most of those classes a lot more seriously then most of the principals in the schools I attended and some (though certainly not all) of the teachers of those classes. A lot of them were basically content to do little more than say "here's a ball and a net, go play volleyball" or "here's a brush, go paint something". And I don't recall very many instances of principals showing much interest in the arts and gym programs at their school. So that's something that needs to improve. Certainly, it is very possible to have very good art, music, and gym teachers that are a real benefit to the students. I've certainly had some. Nonetheless, in general, these are much easier jobs than teachers of core subjects like math and English. So it doesn't seem to make sense that they are paid the same. But there may be some exceptions, such as particularly uniquely skilled art and music teachers.

[–] nypoet22 11 years ago

teachers of core subjects and elective subjects tend to have very different challenges, but i wouldn't necessarily say that one was more difficult or more valuable than the others.

for example, an elective teacher like phys-ed or art may have fewer demands per student than a core subject teacher, but they also can have four times as many students. mathematics and science education are probably the most specialized and technical, so there's a value on that. however, english and social studies because of their subjectivity tend to be more labor intensive, more difficult to assess students and more prone to human error. a skilled administrator can effectively rate teachers based on the way they handle the challenges of their own subject, but it is quite difficult to make "apples to apples" comparisons between different subjects as a whole.

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[–] eponine_t 11 years ago

This is very true about the challenges being different. I teach a specialty subject at the elementary level. I see slightly more than 600 students per year and I am expected to differentiate instruction, grade, and show their yearly progress just as your regular core subject teachers are. I am also expected to follow my state's academic requirements, meaning that I am given a list of topics and skills that I am expected to teach and my students are expected to master. I have to make contact with parents and obtain enough extended education to remain current in my subject area to keep my teaching license current. Specialty teachers have other duties as well. For example, a music teacher would have to plan and organize concerts. An art teacher would probably have to set up an art show. The PE teacher helps with the motor skills testing of incoming kindergarteners. Quite a bit of what teachers do goes on behind the scenes.

[–] SelmerVI 11 years ago

Yup, event planning for music teachers is a big part of the job. Not just concerts, but performance tours and any number of community events. We also have to run fundraisers, deal with parent support groups, manage finances, do publicity, etc - it's a whole other world of paperwork.

[–] SelmerVI 11 years ago

I'm a secondary music teacher. My job is difficult, I can assure you. I don't have the grading load that other teachers do, but I tend to spend more time at school, on weekends and over holidays/vacations doing work. Being a music teacher (especially a competitive one) can consume you. I've seen guys neglect their families, miss watching their own kids grow up... I've also known people who 'retired' to teaching other subjects when they burned out.

[–] joedogboy68 10 years ago

In some schools, PE teachers are given many more students per class.

I spent a semester teaching PE as a long term sub at a troubled junior high school. At our school, PE classes had 50 to 80 students in them. Fights in class or the locker room were a common occurrence. The work during the day was much harder and more stressful for me than teaching English or Social Studies, but I didn't have to correct papers, and could go home every afternoon at 3:30 and work in my garden to relax.

[–] ezzy666 9 years ago

At our school it our PE teacher would have 4 first grade classes at a time.
They also have to write lesson plans and assess each student on various skills.

The only time I heard of teacher resentment was when regular ed teachers complained about the low number of students in special ed. That principal had the regular ed teachers sell their prep and teach the special ed students. After spending 50 minutes in the classroom teachers stopped complaining.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.