MovieChat Forums > Waiting for 'Superman' (2010) Discussion > Americans should accept their mediocrity

Americans should accept their mediocrity


It seems to me at the heart of the problem is the obsession americans have with "being a success". There is no middle ground and thus no appreciation for the work of 80 percent of the population. This has also lead to a policy of deception, where institutions and diplomas are equal in name only and inequality is allowed to bloom in secrecy.

The film shows parents determined to send their child to college. Well, what if your son wants to become a carpenter or a firefighter? Does that mean he's a failure? This obsession with college has also lead to an absurd debasement of academia, with things like barber college and PhDs in nursing.

The real problem is not the quality of high schools, but the absence of other schools. Schools for those that just want to learn a trade and don't need 12 years of schooling.

The problem is not that public schools fail to get everyone into college, but the lack of accredited, quality job training outside of college. Not everyone is meant to become a doctor or a physicist. Carpenters and mechanics are just as essential to a national economy.



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I don't agree with the title of your post (and honestly, I don't see what it has to do with the point you ultimately make) but your post has merit. We had a stronger economy when we weren't trying to send *every kid* to college. Yes, we need laborers, craftsmen and all other manner of people in the work force who don't need a degree in medieval history or economics. And to be honest, I don't mind if a master electrician makes more than I do. Used to be, a high school diploma was respectable enough for someone to go into a great career without a college education - business and banking even. Alas.

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Yeah I didn't mean to say that american kids are mediocre compared to their international peers. To be honest, my last posting got no answers, so I chose a title that I thought would get more attention. ;-)

What I meant is of course that american parents should accept that most kids are not highly gifted. Heck, half of them are intellectually below-average - they have to be, according to the definition of the median. Kids have differing talents and parents should try to foster those talents and help their kids make the most of that. Thats what I would consider good parenting, instead of instilling in your children the belief that the things they excel at don't matter while the subjects that cause them frustration are the ones that count.

In most of Europe I believe the school system is multi-tiered. High school is for those 30% or so of kids that want to go to university and have the necessary talent. The other tier is for kids with more practical abilities: those schools offer more practical courses, less foreign language classes and are less demanding in math and sciences. And kids graduate after the 9th or 10th grade.

In Germany and Switzerland, graduates from these schools usually will start an apprenticeship at some company, which from the start pays a small salary. These apprenticeships are regulated and organized by the state and the respective chamber of crafts. They usually take 3 years, and consist mostly of on-the-job training at the company and may 8 to 12 hours of vocational school per week. If you pass the final practical and theoretical examination you get an accredited journeyman's certificate (which is a requirement to work in this trade). Most journeymen are subsequently employed by the company where they did their apprenticeship. Some enroll for additional courses by the chamber of commerce to get a master craftsman diploma after another 5 years and can start their own business.

The result is that you have much less drop-outs and less people without formal job training. It also means that blue-collar workers have a better standing in society and earn more money, especially master craftsmen.

Of course, a carpenter or an industry worker is unlikely to have much of a career. But with an apprenticeship in banking or IT from a well-known company you may have better chances of success than many university graduates. Especially in banking, high school graduates often chose an apprenticeship over college. I remember a former CEO of either UBS or Deutsche Bank, who had worked at the company all his life, starting at age 16 as an apprentic

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Great post, I wholeheartedly agree. Part of the problem is that we're trying to prove the world that we can and will be better at all things - we a going to prove that the American Dream is alive and well, and that even a kid from the lowliest origins can be a Harvard grad, a brain surgeon, or a high ranking politician. We've fallen into the trap into thinking that every kid will be thus. We've also started to push the idea that there is only one kid of student that is truly successful.

"instead of instilling in your children the belief that the things they excel at don't matter while the subjects that cause them frustration are the ones that count. "

This is one of the thorns I've had sticking in my side for some time. I'm a secondary music teacher that works for an affluent community. I lose a lot of kids to AP and honors classes, not because they need them, but because they think that taking those classes will increase their chances of getting into college. It doesn't matter that they don't really need AP Econ or Art History. But the result is that we are graduating entire classes of kids who have nearly identical resumes - which no doubt are also identical to the thousands of other high-performance students also playing the field. The result, is that everyone is the same flavor of awesome, and no one really sticks out. Meanwhile, they leave the electives that can help distinguish themselves long forgotten.

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Thats exactly what I mean. And what you point out in the second paragraph is another example of diplomas and institutions that are equal in name only:

"I lose a lot of kids to AP and honors classes, not because they need them, but because they think that taking those classes will increase their chances of getting into college."


In theory, any high school graduate should be able to enroll in university. In most of Europe, with the baccalaureate system, this is actually the case. Whatever choice students have in their courses, it doesn't affect their prospects. It's actually encouraged to take courses you're good at, since it's the grade average if anything that universities are allowed to consider in their choice of students.

It is the fact that american high schools have to accomodate all students that lowers the value of a high school diploma, and leads to things like AP classes and extracurricular activities becoming unofficial requirements. Officially you have a great selection of courses and can choose according to your affinities. In reality however you have to fulfil rather strict requirements to get into a decent school.

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My brother quit after a year of college to work at on the line at an auto plant. I finished school and went into teaching. I spent more money on my education and earned less than him. When we added up the hours I worked on weekends and after school we found I was working more and I was teased for not getting overtime pay. I quit teaching.

Charter schools are doing worse than public schools. They can't keep teachers and students scores are not improving. I can't keep up with how many of them are being investigated for financial mismanagement. They are expelling a larger number voucher students and asking to be exempt from hiring licensed teachers. The teachers are starting their unions and joining existing ones.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

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