The Cove


Please see the Cove about dolphins being used in the entertainment industry.

Then don't see this movie.

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agreed.

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I wish I could like a post à la Facebook.

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Someday, when you've grown up, you can be a politician. Half-truths come easy to them.

Go out and catch a dolphin and make it a Marineland entertainer, and that's a moral crime.

Go out and save a dolphin whose tail is dead meat, literally, because of a man's abandoned crab trap and you've done a positive moral act. Give that dolphin a prosthetic tail so it can swim like a dolphin is supposed to, and you've given it a new life. Take care of that dolphin in an aquarium where it can survive, and you've given it a longer life. Turn that dolphin into an entertainer, and you give it a reason to like that longer life.

Don't watch a (good) movie like "The Cove," and conclude that every interaction between man and dolphin is evil. Without caring humans, Winter, the real dolphin of the movie Dolphin Tale, would have been dead three years ago. Now, she thrives in the Clearwater Marine Aquarium and her higher brain functions are challenged and stimulated by human interaction.

Yes, I'm biased. I volunteer at the CMA. Winter is an acquaintance. Unlike "show" aquariums Winter lives in a facility whose mission is to "Rescue. Rehab. Release." The only marine mammals that stay at CMA are those that would not survive in the wild due to injury or their young age when rescued. (Without peer or parent training, young animals wouldn't know how to hunt in the wild or how to avoid being hunted.)

So, my point is that blanket assertions are not always accurate. It's not a black-and-white world out there. Not all aquatic facilities go out looking for animals to capture and turn into Shamu and others.

So see The Cove, and learn. It's a documentary.
See Dolphin Tale and be charmed. It's entertainment.
(Yes, the story is loosely based on reality. But it's still a story.)

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Daze, the dolphins used for the movie are undoubtedly not the original tailless dolphin but real victims of the vile marine entertainment industry, like Flipper was. Unless they use digital dolphins, but I doubt that.

I think this should only be shown as a double feature including The Cove.

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Sorry to disappoint Rose, but Winter, the real tail-less dolphin, is the living, breathing actual dolphin playing herself in the movie. Seen it with my own eyes, see Winter every week during my volunteer shift, saw the movie crew for three months last year while they were shoooting in and around the aquarium here in Clearwater.

The only dolphin scenes that weren't shot with the actual, live, real (sorry, repeating myself, but you seem to be unbelieving) were shots necessary to the storyline that would put Winter at risk or be dangerous for her. In those cases, animatronics or CGA was used. See the movie starting the 23rd. When you see any live shots with the kid happily swimming/playing with the tailless dolphin in her tank, that's really Winter. We even had a few weeks of volunteers manning fake cameras around Winter before shooting began so that she'd be used to them and not frightened by the big 3D units.

Saw it all happening while the aquarium was closed last year during the movie shoot. Don't mean to burst your conspiracy bubble or your possible views that everyone and everything is lying....

The only problem is that, though without a tail, Winter's gotten a big head. Miss Big Star. Comes to the aquarium each day in a limo. I don't even want to go into the entourage she has swimming around her. Has to have her own bowl of fresh, ALASKAN herring in the green room. Atlantic herring is no longer good enough.

(Okay, that last paragraph was all in good fun!)

Winter hasn't changed a bit and continues to enjoy contact with her trainers and putting on educational shows for people. One other benefit of life with Winter is the number of humans with disabilities who've been encouraged by Winter's progress and her prosthesis. The research for Winter's apparatus has also transferred over into advances for human prostheses. Win-Win. Winter.

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The only reservation I had about this movie was was using real dolphins. It's great to hear they didn't use healthy dolphins taken from the wild and I will gladly watch the movie now. Thanks for putting my fears at ease.

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You're welcome.

However, I can't critique, for better or worse, on the movie as a story or entertainment since I won't be seeing it until a couple of days before the nationwide opening. Whether they've made a beautiful, though somewhat fictionalized, version of Winter's story, I don't know. As an entertainment, that remains to be seen.

If you'd like more info about the real Winter and her six years of life so far, check out:

http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2008/reports/winter/

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Apparently people didn't read the credits. It clearly states "Winter" is playing herself in the beginning of the movie.

Love the story. I rescue dogs and I get it.

Lovely story. Next time I am in FL I will have to visit.

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"The only reservation I had about this movie was was using real dolphins."

Wow, not enough things to whine about I guess.

BUGS

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"The only problem is that, though without a tail, Winter's gotten a big head. Miss Big Star. Comes to the aquarium each day in a limo. I don't even want to go into the entourage she has swimming around her. Has to have her own bowl of fresh, ALASKAN herring in the green room. Atlantic herring is no longer good enough."

ha ha ha - good job

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Thanks Kathy! I try.

"Sometimes the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't." (Little Big Man, I think.)

Trolls can bypass the rest of this post.

Had my volunteer shift a couple of days ago, the day after I saw the movie. Unlike that earlier humorous paragraph, Winter was doing just fine, swimming in her pool, clocking in at close to 300 pounds now. You can't really tell her size in the movie because she's now going on six and was only a year or less when the movie takes place. (Five years ago in her life.)

It's good she can't read because she has no idea of what either the press agents are saying about their new star nor about what the trolls on these boards are saying about her movie or her species. She just blithely goes about her day swimming, entertaining and working with the latest iteration of her prosthetic tail fin.

The best times are when physically-challenged visitors stop by and see how a dolphin deals with disability. On that point, tear-jerky as it may be, the movie does accurately duplicate reality.

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What is the difference between obtaining 'show' dolphins from dolphin drives and picking out a pig for a petting zoo in a slaughter house?

BUGS

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@Daze: I have seen The Cove and Dolphin Tale and certainly understand the difference. I have worked in not-for-profit most of my life and understand that one board meeting can change the course of your life. I also understand that Hollywood always has to change a storyline to make money. But did the board really vote for the sale of CMA? Other that the obvious ‘people story’ of Dolphin Tale, what other parts were Hollywooded?

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No, there was no sale of CMA to anyone, nor any need to. It's still going stronger than ever as an independant non-profit. In fact, growth as a result of the movie, has allowed for an expansion of facilities and the ability to take in more turtles, otters and the occasional dolphin. (Of the three animal classes that CMA handles, dolphins seem best able to take care of themselves and their family groups in the wild, so taking in new dolphins is somewhat rarer.)

And just to re-cover old ground for the trolls, no, CMA doesn't keep dolphins so we have performers for a show. We keep dolphins that cannot survive if released back into the wild. And they perform in a show because they enjoy doing it. They have higher brain functionality and their life, and longevity, is improved by that interaction and the challenges. It's fun for them.

There were a number of things in the movie that were dramatized to make a more coherent story with a beginning, middle and end. Nearly all of Winter's personal story is accurate, but the humans surrounding her have had some license taken with reality to make a "movie" instead of a documentary.

The aquarium people involved were disparate volunteers, staff and prosthetic makers, not family groups. But depicting a bunch of 18-30 year old staff and volunteers would make the story harder to follow and less interesting to children. So, they created a father and daughter, mother and son and cousin. The emotional connections that disabled people have with Winter and her story are completely accurate and continue on a daily basis. That's the heart of the story. The disabled veteran cousin and the physically-challenged visitors shown in the movie simply were representations of what actually happened/happens.

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Someday, when you've grown up, you can be a politician. Half-truths come easy to them.

Go out and catch a dolphin and make it a Marineland entertainer, and that's a moral crime.

Go out and save a dolphin whose tail is dead meat, literally, because of a man's abandoned crab trap and you've done a positive moral act. Give that dolphin a prosthetic tail so it can swim like a dolphin is supposed to, and you've given it a new life. Take care of that dolphin in an aquarium where it can survive, and you've given it a longer life. Turn that dolphin into an entertainer, and you give it a reason to like that longer life.

Don't watch a (good) movie like "The Cove," and conclude that every interaction between man and dolphin is evil. Without caring humans, Winter, the real dolphin of the movie Dolphin Tale, would have been dead three years ago. Now, she thrives in the Clearwater Marine Aquarium and her higher brain functions are challenged and stimulated by human interaction.

Yes, I'm biased. I volunteer at the CMA. Winter is an acquaintance. Unlike "show" aquariums Winter lives in a facility whose mission is to "Rescue. Rehab. Release." The only marine mammals that stay at CMA are those that would not survive in the wild due to injury or their young age when rescued. (Without peer or parent training, young animals wouldn't know how to hunt in the wild or how to avoid being hunted.)

So, my point is that blanket assertions are not always accurate. It's not a black-and-white world out there. Not all aquatic facilities go out looking for animals to capture and turn into Shamu and others.

So see The Cove, and learn. It's a documentary.
See Dolphin Tale and be charmed. It's entertainment.
(Yes, the story is loosely based on reality. But it's still a story.)


Excellent, excellent post and points. Thank you for taking the time to inform, educate, and most importantly provide hands-on help that is so vital to sustain the wonderful work that not-for-profit organizations can only do when people give of themselves.

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"Turn that dolphin into an entertainer, and you give it a reason to like that longer life."

What makes you think they like their lives as entertainers? They are wild animals. Animals in the wild do not entertain for human's amusement, and why should they because 'we' have helped them? Is it a repayment? It's forced. If you don't perform your tricks, you don't get your food.
Sorry but I just can't swallow what you're saying because you volunteer at this place she's held at. I wonder if 2 years on, you've seen the light like many other former aquarium workers and no longer believe this dolphin and other captive cetaceans are happy.

~*~

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While I appreciate your idealism, you're grinding your ax in the wrong shop. Go pontificate at Sea World and Marineland and the other places that are in the business of generating dollars from entertaining humans.

As I've explained in numerous posts, possibly in the preliminaries to this one, Clearwater Marine Aquarium, the real place, not the movie adaptation, is a Rescue-Rehabilitate-Release facility. The primary mission is just that, not finding victims for animal shows.

Sorry but I just can't swallow what you're saying because you volunteer at this place she's held at. I wonder if 2 years on, you've seen the light like many other former aquarium workers and no longer believe this dolphin and other captive cetaceans are happy.


She's "held at"? Winter is surviving because she's staying.

Continuing with Winter as the example of all of the animals at CMA, I have no insight into whether Winter is happier here than in the wild. My insight is whether Winter is familiar with the concept of life and death, or of suicide. Winter is physically disabled. (Are you keeping up?) So, after Winter's tail FELL OFF and she was healed up, i.e. after the Rescue and Rehabilitate parts, CMA had the usual choice of Release or residential animal. Winter could not BE released because she would have died in the wild. CMA chose to read her mind and assume she would want to go on living, just like the other dolphins, turtles and other creatures that stay as residents at CMA.

So your choice would be "release" back into the wild because it's terrible to keep a dolphin alive and in residence when there's the perfectly good option to set them free (only to die within days, with or without her prosthetic tail), because it's nature's way? Now who's trying to read a dolphin's mind?

If the option, given that Winter couldn't survive in the wild, is then to keep Winter alive in residence, what to do then? Just let her swim in circles all day until it's time for free fish? Clearly animal behavior studies in the cetacean area have shown that these beings like to be challenged, like to use their brains, and like to have fun. Hence, the aquarium gives them activities to do which keep them engaged with life. (And no, if Winter decided not to do activities, her food would NOT be withheld. If you have a dog or cat, you understand. She doesn't get her MEALS from participating, she gets treats.)

Maybe you're missing the point here, and maybe I'm over-explaining. Let's put it this way: Marineland has dolphin shows to entertain the public first and generate box office, and secondly to keep the dolphins from going stir-crazy. Rescue facilities like CMA have dolphin shows to engage and entertain the (rescued, unreleasable) dolphins, and secondly, to generate interest, educational opportunities, and income to keep the charitable facility open.

The bottom line is nobody went out and trapped Winter to have a dolphin show. This isn't "The Cove." Winter was rescued from imminent death in the wild and can survive only in captivity.

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Thanks for taking the time to reply. I AM grinding my axe at SeaWorld and many other marine parks, and I will continue to do so.

Please do not patronise me or be rude to me, I'm perfectly capable of keeping up with an imdb post if I can write one, and I don't clumsily post on something I know zilch about, so no rude remarks please!
You seem to have assumed some things about my views and have arrived at the conclusion that I'm a rash, hippyish, blind with anger anti cap campaigner who wants Winter thrown back in to the Ocean and left to (probably) starve to death, scared and alone with her disability because 'it's nature's way'. Please, give me some credit!
My opinions, like many others are that no wild animal should be surrounded by humans for long periods of the day and with excessive human contact. The very fact she is not in a sea pen or there are no current plans to put her in one with other dolphins to me seems suspicious. She's being treated no better than a tourist attraction now she's better. Surely proper rehabilitation is that, giving an animal a life that's as similar to their natural one as possible? Yes she would still need human interference but would have some independence back.

Your post suggests that dolphins and whales would go crazy if they were not asked to do tricks. Yes they would in do while living in a pool, but they should never be asked to do them in the first place. Think about it..the tricks distract them from going mad. Why is it our right to have them perform for us, and no it is not educational. Although it's nice to, you do not necessarily need to view these animals to learn about them, especially not when they're in a pool.
I'm sure this marine park is mostly very worthy, but if they rented out Winter to a film company, that's exploitation. All I think is that all cetaceans who can't be released should be given sea pens to roam in once they are patched up. These rehabilitation centres could still charge people to see the animals in a more natural habitat and from a much less invasive distance.


~*~

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Oh and a quick P.S.

I see you've replied to another post of mine on another thread. Just to clear something up, I have never seen this film. So I am not stating views based on the viewing of it.
I don't know why you thought someone would think you were lying about your work volunteering there?
Also the pools are usually cleaned with chemicals like chlorine, so traces of them are in the fresh water that's put in.

~*~

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I have never seen this film. So I am not stating views based on the viewing of it.


I wish you had said that at the start. I shouldn't have spent the time to respond. You don't even know Winter's fictional story version, much less accepting anything about the real-life version. So where do all these blanket "save the animals, stop the suspicious conspiracy exploitations" come from and how can you apply them to this specific case ... of which you know only what you've read on this board (apparently)?

there are no current plans to put her [Winter] in one [a "sea pen"] with other dolphins to me seems suspicious.


Being a non-profit, save-the-animals organization, where do you suggest that CMA gets a few hundred thousand, and the land and waterfront, to put three dolphins in a "sea pen?"* Are you ready to send in your $100 donation, or donate 8 hours a week in lieu of, to allow Winter and Hope et. al. to swim in a really, really large safe pool. ("Safe" because they can't survive in the wild, else they wouldn't be at CMA.)

If you'd seen the movie, which accurately explains the circumstances of Winter's problems that you're critical of the solutions for, you'd understand a few things. For example, Winter has no tail flipper. Man's crab trap helped remove that. So, Winter almost died, and then was becoming crippled because she was trying to swim by wiggling her back end back and forth instead of up and down. A prosthetic device, in the form of a normal tail, allows her to use her musculo-skeletal structure the way it's meant to be used.

Now I'd like to be able to say that other dolphins help her put it on and take it off, because then maybe she could have been released back into the wild (with an appropriate suitcase, of course, to carry the tail in, when not on). But I'm sorry, it's those nefarious, suspicious CMA people who help her with her tail.

And they do exploit poor Winter. You're right. With my own eyes (if you can trust me), I've seen many a person down at the pool platform loving on Winter -- and Winter (seeming to be) loving it -- because they're both disabled. Winter has an artificial tail so she can swim normally (when it's on) and the 12-year-old has prosthetic legs so they can walk "normally." Child and dolphin feel that they have a kindred soul in this world. And I don't know what Winter feels, but so many of us have seen the cases of children, and adults, meeting Winter and expressing hope that if a dolphin can deal with a life of prosthetics, then maybe they can too.

Anyway, I didn't mean to make you feel bad or anything. I just get a bit fired up if I see what seem to be blanket statements about things that aren't accurate. We have too many politicians doing that nowadays.

So, can we count on you to take action to help animals? Volunteering at the local rescue facility? Or do you just want to write about how deplorable it is when people don't treat animals right?



*In actuality, because of the movie's success, and a sequel in progress, CMA is making plans to expand greatly its facilities. Again, however, the point of CMA is not to send profits off to some corporate accounting office, but to use the income to provide greater Rescue-Rehabilitate-Release capabilities for dolphins, sea turtles and other marine mammals.

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I'm sorry, you again seem to be jumping to the conclusion I'm a raging activist who has just stumbled across this board, and randomly decided to spew posts here without knowing anything about Winter.
There was no need for you to explain her history and condition, of which I already knew, as she is pretty much world famous. You don't have to see a Hollywood film to learn about her, you know.
You also seem to have also selectively ignored the paragraph I wrote explaining how I know Winter cannot be released into the wild ocean, because I'm not an idiot, and because I'm aware of her disability and how it limits her. Did you just not bother to read it? Anyway.
I am also wondering why you think it is wrong to write 'about how deplorable it is when people don't treat animals right'. I am stunned that a person who volunteers at somewhere like CMA and therefore surely cares about animals would think there is something wrong with doing that.

Regarding the Sea pen idea. This is the best option for any sea animal at a marine park. If you cannot see the benefits of one, there is no point in taking the discussion any further than this post. To me, saying her current position is the best one, is like saying a tiger is better off in a cage because at least that cage is owned by a non profit organisation, rather than a richer one, who can provide it with a safari park to roam in. There's such a thing as sending the dolphin into the care of another organisation who can afford to put her in a pen with others. I don't know the ins and outs of these things but it happens a lot so I don't see why it's not possible. There are people very willing to donate to these causes too, enough money CAN be raised.

You dont understand that someone can still exploit another person, or being, even if they treat them well. Aren't you from the country of child beauty pageants? That's 'kind exploitation' right there.
I'm sure it's great for a disabled human to swim with a dolphin and especially one that is also disabled. But who says it's great for Winter? In fact, there's recent research to suggest human contact is stressful and upsetting for dolphins!

You haven't made me feel bad, only very sad that I cannot convince you to see that CMA are not treating her as best as she could be treat. I urge you to read more into how captive dolphins (and yes, she counts as captive) lead miserable, stressed lives, despite their dolphin smile. I admire your loyalty but I think it's misled. You're obviously defensive of CMA as you volunteer, and I'm aware they are a great organisation otherwise. What they have done for Winter is hugely commendable and the fame she has now is because of their amazing work. But the way they are now handling Winter is not as good as she deserves. At the minute she is a cash cow to them and barely different from the animals at Seaworld. That's all my problem is! Maybe you'd need distance between yourself and CMA to see that.

I have been as diplomatic as I can possibly be for something that makes me feel extremely angry and depressed about the world, yet you're accusing me of making blanket statements, and you haven't even had the respect to read my posts properly.. when reading them back, I have been very fair in them. I'm intelligent and I know a lot about these animals so please stop assuming I don't and patronising me. You think you can knock down others with a condescending, angry post because you volunteer, but it wont work with me.
With all kindness I think you should take a little step back and see it's actually you who is throwing me into blanket categories (for example, assuming that I am one of those who thinks she should be thrown back in the sea,or that I've only read about Winter's case on this board - where did you even get that from??) ..like a politician would do.
Apologies for the length of this post.


~*~

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I'm sorry you were offended. I tend to be blunt and write in a hurry and then don't take the time to proofread stuff.

What doesn't change is my opinion that I think your concepts of how to deal with all such situations are impractical and naive. It seems to come down to 1) Don't capture dolphins and then give them a wonderful facility to become forced entertainers for the public. I fully agree with that. Then, 2) Any facility that has dolphins cannot, by definition, provide value to the life of the dolphin unless each one has a very expensive facility that allows it to feel almost like it's back in the ocean, with little human contact.

Of course, if I'm wrong, you can feel free to provide your own set of guidelines, if they differ from my re-reading of your postings.

That leaves the main question of what to do with excess rescued dolphin population. It seems that other aquariums or "hospitals" are often filled to capacity and loathe to take on another facility's patient. Every rescued dolphin cannot have half-million dollar sea pens. That's pie in the sky. Not every no-alternative resident dolphin can survive, even in captivity, without human contact ... for food, veterinary services, etc. and, in Winter's case, physical therapy.

So, what is your real-world, limited budget alternative? You say what we should do, but how do you propose adapting that to practical terms?

Where is the line between letting rescue dolphins die rather than helping them survive? Is their life better shorter if it can be without benevolent human contact? is it better to let one die if it can't have the finest facility?

I'm not sure of the line(s) myself. I do know that CMA, in spite of money challenges to provide the best, probably does well by the dolphins and other residents. I, and others, have seen listless dolphin activity not related to health issues. When such dolphins were given pen-mates and/or human trainer interaction, they've lost their listlessness. They become engaged with living, it seems. I can't read their minds. I'm not an animal behaviorist. It's just what I see and what I've read. If you're a professional in the area, then make your colors known.

Speaking of colors, I'm flying under slightly false colors. During earlier posts, I was still a volunteer at the facility. I went on leave after five years of service about a year ago and have other things going on now. I do miss my co-workers and their dedication and the marine mammals though. And I'm probably too biased an advocate for their work.

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That's pretty much how I see it, although a larger, more private tank with others for company is what would be the next best thing for these creatures obviously. I wouldn't have thought that's much to ask from anywhere, but hopefully when laws/regulations change, dolphins etc who have to be permanent residents at marine parks, like Winter, will be moved to parks that do have the money for sea pens or something almost as good as that.
That's all I can give you real world wise. I'm not a business woman and wouldn't pretend to be! I'm not going to write out a business plan complete with a budget on IMDb even if I could.
But I heard that CMA are planning a 12 million dollar expansion plan...and aren't nearby the sea? Why NOT plan something like a sea pen with that money? This is why I'm suspicious of their motives in regards to vulnerable animals like Winter. She's brought in all this money for them and she isn't being treat the way she deserves. This is my problem. No 'conspiracy' theories. It's their for everyone to see if they look further than the loveable disabled dolphin image.

I don't doubt there are many people (including celebrities/rich figures) who are very willing to donate to places that would give better and more natural facilities for their animals, and I know where I'm from, there's the possibilities of bursaries and government funding for that kind of thing. Maybe it's naive to think people would donate but I know I would even if it couldn't be much. I might be too hopeful sometimes but at least it's because I care deeply and it would be worse to be the other way about animals. Martin Luther King had a dream, right?!

Whether she's there because she has to be or not, it doesn't mean CMA should deprive her of what's best for her, and surely they must have the money now.
The only reason I started posting on this board the other week is because I know it will get more traffic with A Dolphin's Tale 2 coming out and I feel like it's a social responsibility to give people even a tiny piece of education about captive cetaceans. That might sound pompous but that's how I feel lol. Imagine never seeing outside of four walls again. Ever. I can't even imagine. People won't know how lonely Winter is, they'll think she's just a cute loveable dolphin with a disability but it goes deeper than that.
There's a small revolution going on right now, and more and more people are waking up to how captivity is misery and hell for intelligent cetaceans. Once this becomes more widespread things will begin to change for these animals so maybe it wont be a dream any more.

~*~

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I appreciate your feelings and views, and understand. In an ideal world, mine would probably correspond closely with yours. But I was in the world of business for thirty years and in the (Winter's) marine facility environment for five years, and in the real world for over sixty years. What you propose is just impractical from a financial sense and an infrastructure sense.

No other facility, larger or not, would have wanted Winter back then. The chances of her surviving the loss of her tail, from an infection point-of-view or from a physical infirmity point-of-view appeared nil.

Any facility would want Winter now that CMA went to the trouble of getting a human prosthetic device design team involved to see if anything could be done for a dolphin (and if that work might have any carryover to human disability work).

Winter is being used by CMA and Winter is responsible for the funding for an expansion. We don't know whether Winter feels a philanthropic pride in that. Or whether she just enjoys having fun. But we don't know whether she doesn't either. What we do know is that because of her, and the resulting expansion of facilities, more income will be generated to run those facilities which will enable CMA to save more at-risk dolphins and other marine mammals.

The money has nowhere to go except back to animal care and the facilities necessary to do so. It's a non-profit facility, so more income does not mean more profits in someone's pockets. It can only go to the expansion of the facility's mission.

No one is going to put up money to have "sea pens" for every dolphin(s) that can't safely be released back into the wild. No entity will see that as a priority compared to just letting nature take its course with injured animals. And every sizable sea pen, including one in Clearwater, would require expensive open water frontage that municipal entities might be very loathe to give up to coddling (as many critics would term it) custodial dolphins.

People have been donating to help create what facilities can be done within the limits of practicality. Much of the "donations" are in the form of entrance fees to CMA facilities. Winter helps boost those "donations," which offers the opportunity to expand animal care. Winter is, in effect, helping her fellow marine mammals. Do we know that she likes that? That she's aware of that? That she's not? Who knows?

All in all, sea pens, environmental and animal philosophies and everything aside, it really boiled down to: What do you do with a threatened, injured dolphin, who may or may not live, who will be disabled for life? And who will step in to do whatever is required? And do we want to try to save the dolphin or not? And we just have to do our best to read the mind of the dolphin, based on behavioral studies, to see whether she's happy, engaged with living, or healthy. An unhappy or sick dolphin is painfully obvious and would be of no interest to the public, so the interest of expanding the facility mission corresponds to ensuring that Winter has an interesting, fulfilling life.

I'm no marine mammal expert, and presumably you're not, but the ones who've dealt with Winter (including outside professionals) have concluded that she's thriving in her situation. Sorry, I know you care deeply, but if you can determine through your keyboard and reading that she's unhappy and will be better off in a sea pen, then you need to take action. Write to David Yates at CMA and tell him what he needs to do and how you know that to be true.

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I'm surprised other places wouldn't have taken her, I thought marine parks who do rehab were quite common in the U.S, so there'd be places who had the skills and facilities to deal with her. I would have thought somewhere like Seaworld would've loved to take her.

I don't have a lot more to say on here but I want to clarify something about sea sanctuaries/ sea pens. They might be tricky and expensive to arrange and create but it seems like CMA surely can afford one now. I'm sure I don't have to tell you any of this, but they aren't theoretical, they are happening and in development. Organisations DO have money for them, it can happen. If CMA have to give Winter up so she can have a better life in one with another organisation, so be it. This is an interesting article on sea pens for captive killer whales but of course can be extended to dolphins, too.. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/24/opinion/blackfish-captive-orcas-solu tions/ And it backs up what I've been saying about still earning money for viewings, and with specialists still being able to have access to the animals.
There are plans for more being created in North America and Europe. One is planned for Norway for a killer whale who is held (yes, 'held'!) in Tenerife, and was only captured 3 years ago. There's something extremely exciting being planned off Washington state, a sea pen that will be hopefully be a retirement home for a lucky captive whale if the park it lives at will give it up. That's if enough public pressure is put on them. There's a lot of info about that particular sea sanctuary here - http://www.orcanetwork.org/retirement.html this site is in favour of 'Lolita', who lives in Miami to be retired there, then re-released back into the sea if all goes well. I cannot propose a plan myself, but I can link you to one.
So actually rehabbing an animal into a sea pen is not the hardest part, it's getting the marine parks to give these creatures up. I realise this is slightly off topic because I'm talking about physically able killer whales, but if specialists think there's a chance they can be released back into the ocean after years of living in a pool, I'm sure just keeping a disabled dolphin in one will be possible.

I'm sad you think I'm naive, I prefer to call it 'hopeful' with the information I know. I do a lot of research in my spare time and know a fair amount about cetaceans, rehab and captivity. So, no, I can't plan and pitch a business idea as big as that, but thank God there are those who can. It is a reality.
Maybe a reason why I seem naive to you is because I had no idea there were so many injured dolphins that need to be attended to by people, so many that marine parks are nearly (or are?) turning them away, like you have told me. It is in fact extremely rare in the U.K. There is a dolphin centre in Scotland which has never had to step in to deal with a sick or injured dolphin before. Isn't that odd? There is no 'cetacean hospital' in the U.K so to speak. There have been rare instances in Britain where dolphins have been injured by boats, but most don't survive this.

Actually, it's something I'd never thought much about before, but from these few exchanges with you, I've come to the conclusion that I don't think a seriously injured dolphin who looks like they wouldn't be able to live in the sea should be saved. It sounds awful and kind of hard to admit. But they'll never be happy and live their life as they should in a rehab facility. Their relationships with their pods are so complex and woven into their DNA I think that living without them can only be half a life.

I do take action, I sign petitions, share and spread word on twitter and facebook - I'm basically really annoying. I've never emailed CMA except through petitions, but maybe a personal email will be my next step. I'm also definitely not alone. When I heard about Winter a few years ago I thought, 'what a sweet story' and that was all. It was only last year when I read an article someone had shared about her being exploited for a film and how she actually looks scared and stressed in her tank, that I grew concerned and I have been part of a growing number of people who try and take action to improve captive's lifestyles. I don't know if you knew that about Winter, there are a lot of concerns for her from people round the world though. She deserves much more - whether she's aware or not - and in my mind CMA really have no more excuses.

~*~

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I had an inkling you might be UK, though I didn't notice any "behaviours" or talk about keeping Winter in "gaol" and such in your postings. (Or I missed them. I'm two generations from Cornwall, so I don't catch it all!)

Yeah, this is likely my last post on this too.

There are plans for more being created in North America and Europe.

Perhaps this touches on the problem, that sea pens are expensive, hard to create (from a land/sea use point-of=view) and not deemed worthy of just saving a few dolphins by the powers that be. So, there are few (if any) of such a thing to choose from, or send a "save" to.

I'm sad you think I'm naive, I prefer to call it 'hopeful' with the information I know.

I think there's a thin line between hopeful and naive. I've been both at various times in my life and think maybe that those of us who started out naive, learn a bit about the world, and then either get mad and cranky, or we become hopeful that some of the naïfs of this world might gang up and change things!

I've come to the conclusion that I don't think a seriously injured dolphin who looks like they wouldn't be able to live in the sea should be saved.


That's a quandary that every discovery of an injured dolphin presents. Save, or allow to expire? Or euthanasia, if natural death would be painful. But we've been talking about one specific dolphin. The reel-life story, and more-accurate, real-life story are about just one dolphin -- Winter.

When Winter was discovered, Turtle and Dolphin Rescue was summoned and, at some point over the succeeding days, a decision was made to try to save her. Was it right or wrong? Irrelevant now, as far as Winter goes. Perhaps euthanising would have been best from an idealistic viewpoint.

However, Winter became not just a permanent resident, disabled dolphin. Winter became the focus of research to help the dolphin, which coincidentally also became research for how to help people. Sure, the inspiration generated by Winter helps humans with disabilities feel differently about themselves. But the reality of helping Winter, particularly the soft sleeve developed to go on Winter before the prosthetic tail, is now used to make human prosthetics more comfortable.

Would we go out and maim a dolphin so that we could do research to benefit humans. I hope not (although we do worse animal research to benefit humans).

But they'll never be happy and live their life as they should in a rehab facility. Their relationships with their pods are so complex and woven into their DNA I think that living without them can only be half a life.


I still say that it's as much an assumption (compared to a known fact) whether a saved dolphin is happy/unhappy in a rescue facility or happier in the ocean. Again, we're talking de facto. She's already saved, Now what? Are humans happier in the big social ocean or do they often choose to stay in someplace that's become comfortable to them? In Winter's case, again, there is no choice. You can't really have a dolphin with a prosthetic in a huge sea pen.

I do take action, I sign petitions, share and spread word on twitter and facebook - I'm basically really annoying.


Social media, social action, social good. (And I didn't say "annoying!")

I read an article someone had shared about her being exploited for a film and how she actually looks scared and stressed in her tank, that I grew concerned and I have been part of a growing number of people who try and take action to improve captive's lifestyles.


Be careful of biases and agendas in articles. And consider the source. I read an article that said Winter was happy and loved showing off. If your article was from "Greenpeace Today" and my article was from "Florida Tourism Today," ummmm. Groups like to stir up people to action and donations as much as other groups like to stir up people to spending money.

To end, I would probably be much closer to your thoughts and viewpoint, even now, than I've expressed here. But on the specific case of an actual dolphin, Winter, a dolphin that I observed weekly for five years without the filter of some group or article writer, I stand by what I've written.

Peace.

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I'm curious about something. When you talk about "expensive open water frontage" property for a sea pen, is that because waterfront property is so valuable as real estate that only the highest bidder can afford it, thereby making it impractical for a non-profit organization to own?

He carries illegal weapons, drives fast cars, and wears clothes obviously designed by a homosexual.

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I think the biggest evil we're doing to dolphins is polluting the ocean with PCBs that has neurotoxic effects.

http://us.whales.org/issues/marine-chemical-pollution

There's also the fishing gear which threatens their lives:

Worldwide attention has been given to the high mortality of dolphins associated with driftnets and certain purse-seine tuna fisheries in the Eastern Tropical Pacific. Other types of fishing gear also endanger cetaceans but have not received as much publicity.

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Troll.

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actually u shud listen 2 OP and watch da Cove. in dat movie, its shown dat dolphin meat is extremely high in mercury and makin town's ppl sick. so no, i wudnt eat dat dolphin meat if i were u...

I live, I love, I slay, and I'm content

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[deleted]

well ur doin a great job so far...thx!

I live, I love, I slay, and I'm content

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Actually the companion movie should be A Fall From Freedom.

CB

Good Times, Noodle Salad

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And another attempt to troll fails...

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