MovieChat Forums > Restrepo (2010) Discussion > Why can't we recruit better soldiers?

Why can't we recruit better soldiers?

posted 14 years ago by nyshrink
72 replies | jump to latest

I've been thinking about Restrepo, which I saw and reviewed here some months back. I keep reading articles in the paper about Afghanistan, and how NATO troops demolish villagers' fields, kill people, raze their homes etc and think that somehow this is going to get the people on our side. I have come to the conclusion that the troops in the field are disconnected from the mission. They don't want to be there, and they aren't thinking about the outcome. They just want to survive and go home. This is why America keeps losing wars. Either we shouldn't fight them in the first place, or we should fight them to win them. What I saw in "Restrepo" was disrespect for the Afghan people. I also think this illustrates the subtle ignorance and xenophobia of most Americans. So many Americans are convinced that we are somehow superior to other people. I have traveled the world and I do not see the evidence for this belief. We need to recruit better soldiers but this means having a better population to recruit from---better educated, more respectful of other cultures, and more respectful of people in general and of life itself.

[–] markeatcheez 14 years ago

I don't think it's that easy. I feel on a long enough timespan, for the average soldier the will to win, simply becomes overcome by the will to simply survive your time and go home. I think there might be too many external forces and too much time put in Afghanstistan for American soldiers especially. Are they 15 month deployments or something? That's way too long for a person, especially to spend a lot of that time in one of the worst places in Afghanistan. I just did 8 months in a non-warlike operation in the Australian Army and sometimes even I wanted to kill myself, or even kill something out of sheer anger, I can't even imagine how the guys in Afghan would have coped. If anything, America should treat their soldiers better. I think their post deployment rehab is getting better for the soldiers, though. Also, the fact that the Taliban use such inhumane methods for warfighting is not an easy thing to deal with, not to mention how they basically laugh in the face of the Coalition thanks to the media. It's enough to drive the sanest, most well composed soldier to the limit.

[–] nyshrink 14 years ago

Did you want to kill yourself because of the bureaucracy? Because I think that's one of the things that stresses US soldiers. I think they don't always get the support or clear messages that they need.

I think maybe the training could be improved. It has to start from the top. I don't think 15 months is a long time, but then again I am in my 40s and time starts to pass more quickly as you get older. Maybe they should recruit older soldiers. It seems to be the young men who get in trouble and cause the most problems.

[–] dddmi7-1 9 years ago

dude, you wouldn't last 15 minutes in country...one of these "uneducated" soldiers you're referring to would frag your worthless @ss...

you are in your 40s??? wow, I would have guessed 14 at the level of ignorance you display...sorry, my bad...you're just an overeducated lame @ss turd...nice to know you're from NY, confirms my opinion of the Big Apple and all those worthless Yankees fans....

so glad I'm originally from the D!

another pleasantry for our beloved OP: go F yourself silly you lame @ss _uck!!!

again, wishing you a nice day :) FOAD!!!

[–] TcH3rNo 14 years ago

It's so easy for you to say, while you are typing this in the comfort of your own home. Let's put you in their boots with a few bullets flying your way and we will see if you won't just want to "survive and go home".

http://www.anomalousmaterial.com/movies/

[–] nyshrink 14 years ago

I've been in war zones and I may be again, in the near future.

[–] evenfiel 14 years ago

The issue here doesn't really has anything to do with better soldiers. Soldiers are just tools of generals and politicians. They'll do what they are told to do. They are trained to kill and survive, and those men are pretty good at that.

The problem is, you're not going to win an insurgency war in a completely alien country. You just can't do it, period. It's pretty much impossible for a completely alien army to win the hearts and minds of the locals in an insurgency war. Kergal valley is the yet another proof of it.

Now some would say that what is needed is more firepower, but the Russians already tried that and failed as well. They've killed 7% of Afghanistan's population and were still driven out. Just embrace the fact that the US can't win this war.

[–] vk-miesbach 13 years ago

It's pretty much impossible for a completely alien army to win the hearts and minds of the locals in an insurgency war. Kergal valley is the yet another proof of it.

I'm not convinced. All I saw was that the soldiers were inapt and unwilling to do so. They even mocked the very principle of "hearts and minds" in the movie [1]. They apparently have very little empathy for the Afghans they're dealing with and they don't seem to have received a lot of training on how to deal with civilians in a way that will win their support. Put yourself in the shoes of the Afghans they're interacting with throughout the movie and think about whether you would be content with how you'd be treated by them. At least I was thoroughly underwhelmed.

I don't think that makes the soldiers bad guys or anything. They are in a tough situation and one can't expect them all to be perfect diplomats. But from what I saw in the movie I'd say, they just didn't do a very good job at not alienating friendlies or winning over skeptics.

[1] "hearts and minds - yeah we'll take their hearts and we'll take their minds" ( around minute 27)

[–] t-keuren 13 years ago

Where have you been then? to nyshrink

[–] maxohkc 13 years ago

LOL nyshrink has never been in a battle zone.

Dumb troll

[–] dddmi7-1 9 years ago

roger that max...he thinks driving the NJ turnpike south is entering a foreign country...

[–] robjla 13 years ago

its not the solders.. its the politicians.. they do what they are told to that it...no war can be won unless one side gives up.. so this war will never be won..ever..what does fight to win mean kill everybody? that easy and has been tried before.. that doesn't win a wars either..war is more complicated than that

[–] MarkTKthIL 13 years ago

Coming from someone who earned a college degree before enlisting as a ground-pounder medic and volunteering to be to be deployed:

First you have to look at what type of people are being recruited. While officers from the military are excellent candidates and leaders, these people do not make up the vast majority of the military. So, fill in your next spots with ROTC people, who may have an interest in the military, or are doing this to pay for college. Then you have other officers who did not do ROTC/military school, but completed college, and decided they wanted to be an officer. So, at the top on the smaller company level, there's not the leadership that the enlisted need.

Enlisted:
A broad range, but considering most do not have any type of college going in, and are 18-23, you've got kids that don't give a damn about hearts and minds. So what if they killed some guy's cow, or blew up a car, it was cool to a young kid. How many of the enlisted kids really had college as a prospect before they joined? If college wasn't an option, do you think you got the top 30% of the graduating HS school class? Nope. You're getting the middle and bottom. I'm not a genius, 25 ACT (out of 36 for the SAT folks), but I still scored a 93 AFQT (best is 99), but the Army's minimum score to take is a 35 AFQT- in other words, we got some real stupid people in the military. Not all enlisted are like that, but this isn't the Civil War/WW1/WW2 where every type of soldier was drafted or volunteered. There's every exception to the rule, but try to think about it like that.

I think someone within SF said it best when they should just send in SOCOM and win hearts in minds that way, which is exactly what SF is trained to do: teach others to defend themselves, build infrastructure, and if need be, perform direct action in support of the Army they trained. At least A-stan was a perfect opportunity for the exact type of training they do.

[–] Wu_Tang_Clam 13 years ago

Do the extremists that believe us infidels think they're better than us? Do they think Americans should die? Yes, they do. The US also tried handing out tons of cash to get baddies to leave certain areas without violence. No need to mention that though, just that Americans "disrespect" the Afghan people.

Your entire mentality is garbage. Of course troops don't want to be there. Not many people actually WANT to be at war. Most soldiers just want to survive and go home, it doesn't mean they don't care about a mission. I don't think you want better educated soldiers, I think you want psychopaths.

I'm on an ostrich.

[–] wtepps 13 years ago

This has to be one of the most idiotic things I have ever read? Today's service member is better educaed adn raised than even 20 years ago. Most NCOs have college degrees of some sort. War in genral, and counter insurgency doesn't take place in some magical fairy-tale land. Please tell me how we should go about combating insurgents, when they hide in Moaques, behind women and children. Or when one day, they profess to want to help you, and the next day are planting an IED on your convoy route. Or better yet, you come across a room full of dead villagers, that they systematially killed, for helping coalition forces. Let me know smart guy, and then we can win this war, to your satisfaction. So either pick up a weapon and step into the breach, or shut the *beep* up, and let the real men and women do their job and support them.

[–] Starvenus 13 years ago

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] floatingrat 13 years ago

wtepps:

You like to tell people to shut up, don't you?

"It's freedom of speech - as long as you don't say too much." - from 'Sons and daughters' by The Neville Brothers

[–] DLFleming1985 13 years ago

"Why can't we recruit better soldiers?"

Seriously man? What would you like, professional athletes? Police officers? Ambassadors? Businessmen? Warriors? Because that's what the soldier has to be in today's war, all rolled into one. Now, find me any of those men that would leave their families & friends, travel to one ofthe most hostile places in the world, and live there for a year at a time, all for a crappy salary.

Good luck finding better men than us, because your pussy asses wouldn't stay a month over there before breaking down and wasting a local.

[–] Promontorium 13 years ago

We need to recruit better soldiers but this means having a better population to recruit from

.

This is ignorance on par with the racism and xenophobia you so readily broadbrush the entire military for.

Your subversive premise is ridiculous to start with, yes clearly if all people were smarter than all people would be smarter, you've made a very childish observation. But that it makes sense to you, in your self-depreciating liberal mind is what's disturbing. You flat out declare 300 million people are too ignorant in your assessment to win a war.

On an intellectual level you offer no solutions, and don't even define real problems, you've simply stated "Americans are dumb!" like a 3 year old in an argument and you're just sticking your ignorant spiteful tongue out.

[–] floatingrat 13 years ago

Most of the comments on this movie come from people operating from the position that invading Afghanistan and trying to make it and the world by extension a better place is a legitimate and worthwhile use of human and military resources.

That's the problem. It's not that America needs better soldiers. It's that the soldiers should never have been sent there in the first place.

9/11 was a wake-up call for America. But instead of waking up, they hit the snooze button.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[–] stage-577-735504 13 years ago

Well as long as the American educational system breed this fine young men, there's not much anyone can do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKKiVxYC-8Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpHWaUSfYj8

[–] floatingrat 13 years ago

stage-577-735504:

Thanks for posting these links. You have done a great service to those speaking out against the idea of enobling these troops. They are not just a disgrace to their uniforms, they are a disgrace to the human race.

[–] lti99 13 years ago

I think you don't know about reality. As a former member of the armed forces, the majority of the men and women join because of the college money or because they got married with children. Very few join to serve their country and that's reality. Besides, kids who come from an educated background and that are well off, are less likely to join.