MovieChat Forums > Elles (2012) Discussion > Feminists should really hate this film

Feminists should really hate this film

posted 12 years ago by henrimaine
14 replies | jump to latest

... because it shows prostitutes who are not poor victims of circumstances but, instead, have freely chosen to sell their bodies. On top of that, they seem to be (kind of) enjoying what they do. This contradicts the dominant (feminist) theory of prostitution, which says that a woman would never do that job unless she had really no alternative.

There are other movies that present a similar picture of prostitution (the classical Belle de Jour or the series Secret Diary of a Call Girl). And these movies have been criticized for glamorizing prostitution. So why are such movies made? Is it just to satisfy male fantasies about willing prostitutes? Or is it because many prostitutes are indeed like that - free and in control of their lives.

[–] adamcrossstills 12 years ago

I don't think you know any feminists if this is your opinion.

also - they haven't "freely chosen". Both girls went into it needing extra money to help live while they pay for their studies, that's not a free choice - that's a last resort and they felt like there was nothing else they could have done.

"The world moves for love, It kneels before it in awe" - The Village

[–] AssetsonFire 10 years ago

Of course it's a free choice! It's as free a choice as any job is. Lola herself said how she'd worked in fast food and preferred prostitution because the former was exhausting. She was also motivated by an inferiority complex regarding her class. You're projecting your own biases into the film.

~.~
There were three of us in this marriage
http://www.imdb.com/list/ze4EduNaQ-s/

[–] auctionmaestra 12 years ago

Henrimaine, you can't stereotype one way or the other. Most prostitutes are dominated by one unpleasant or dangerous reality or another. Many are sex trafficked and are literally at risk of their lives from their clients and their pimps. An excellent novel about this issue is I-5. Check it out. Some prostitutes are able to have a relatively comfortable or less difficult experience because they operate either at an elite level (they still need police protection, a booker or "manager", and a lawyer, though) or they are your under-the-radar neighborhood hooker or may only see "regulars" or their referrals. Although Elles posits that university students can conduct their own operation, it's debatable whether this is realistically possible. At some point, either a cop or a pimp of some sort would likely step in. Some hookers make their situation work by getting and out of the "game" quickly. They may be schoolteachers who go out of state to Vegas for a weekend, or to a convention somewhere, hook for the weekend, and then go back to their "straight" lives. It just depends. Autonomy is the exception rather than the norm, however.

[–] asmomo 12 years ago

There are feminists that think prostitution is great because it's the ultimate freedom, there isn't a consensus on that matter.

Also it's important to note that prostitution is legal in France, so no need to involve the cops here.

And studying is free, especially college and "prépa" like they're doing. The French girl at least (and probably the other too) should also get some money from the state, and a room, since they're working class. So really prostitution is not the only way for them to go on, a part time job flipping burgers should be enough.

[–] fedrulez 12 years ago

Is there any evidence for "autonomy being the exception rather than the norm"?

Please see: http://www.saafe.info/ for some info on what actual working prostitutes think/feel.

Bauer vs. Bourne, that is the question.

[–] feodoric 11 years ago

The OP seems to forget a scene showing an act of sheer, almost unbearably sadistic brutality against one of the prostitutes - enough said, the scene in question being clearly mentioned in the advisory if anyone is curious. So everything is not bright pink and sunny in the marvelous universe of French prostitution. It's true though that on the whole, the picture is overall favorable toward free-enterprise student prostitution, which is disturbing. The script does not take position however: the film shows certain practices that most people that I know (including myself, and I'm a guy!) will find utterly degrading and humiliating for women (e.g. a certain type of shower...) in a non-judgmental way (neither + nor -). Where the movie tends to give the impression that it's ultimately a good job for a young sexy woman is when we see how the young women talk so casually and with visible self-satisfaction to Binoche about, everything considered.

That being said, this is a pretty bad movie, saved mostly by the atmospheric depiction of sensual love at its most pleasurable (again, a clear fantasy about the real thing, which simply cannot be that fantastically exhilarating and liberating - otherwise it's the best kept secret in this part of the Milky Way!). Binoche's acting (not one of my favorite actresses to start with, but I was open to anything) is especially grating, unconvincing and even stupidly juvenile. If the message was to convey the impression that how the life of a well-to-do but sexually frustrated petite bourgeoise in Paris is so unhappy compared to that of part-time students, part-time money-making sex machines, the picture is sketchy at best and only made consistent by reading the synopsis. The actual film does not portray what it was supposedly meant to do, and ends up being a pretentious collage of nice images, often pointless and just plain boring.

Disappointing and not what the various abstracts or storylines lead one to think. Avoid if you have any sense!

[–] ibbi 11 years ago

I think you're kind of way off in a number of ways. They certainly were not as free and in control as you are making out. I do think they were doing what they did at least partially because they didn't FEEL that they had any real alternatives. I think feminists might hate it because it portrays explicit scenes that there really isn't much need to.

They've got cars big as bars, they've got rivers of gold

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] shortysi_uk 11 years ago

I'm beginning to loose my footing on peoples interpretations of feminism; for example some people have said here that feminist's would not like this because it shows women choosing prostitution to support themselves. But surely anyone, man or women has the right to choose what they want to do. It's up to them, they don't have to do it. Things might have been difficult if they didn't, but no one forced them to do it. In this specific situation anyway, I agree the Polish girl may have struggled, but she could of gone home etc.
Someone has also said that a feminist might not like it because of explicit sex scenes. It never occurred to me that someone who thought themselves to be a feminist would not like sex scenes in films. Can anyone tell me why this would be the case? Surely an actress has every right to do a sex scene in a film, the same way another women has every right to watch that film and enjoy or even get off on said sex scene? Is that not the case? Have I got this all terribly wrong?

I Sympathise with Lars Von Trier.

[–] nicver 11 years ago

The scene where she gets anally raped with a bottle does not make it look like her job is all honky-dory.

[–] timlin-4 10 years ago

Sounds like the typical office job, though a bottle sounds more comfortable

[–] lazarillo 10 years ago

There's actually seems to be two almost diametrically opposed feminist viewpoints on this subject. There's the "prostitutes are all victims of the patriarchy" argument and then there's the "prostitution empowers women argument". I don't really buy either of them, and I did appreciate that this movie really didn't seem to either. The girls aren't just "victims", but there's also nothing "empowering" about having your breasts urinated on or getting a wine bottle shoved up your keister.

The problem I had with this movie--and similar French movies like "Student Services" and "Young and Beautiful"--is that it kind of glamorizes prostitution just because the actresses are so impossibly beautiful and the sex scenes are so hot. Whatever feminists think of this movie, I think it makes most males want to go out and hire a young French hooker. . .

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] 10 years ago

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