MovieChat Forums > Ice Pilots NWT (2009) Discussion > Failure is the norm.

Failure is the norm.

posted 12 years ago by mikejjordan
7 replies | jump to latest

It seems when watching this show that failure is a major thread throughout. They seem to revel in it. They criticize Duane for his style but he's the only one really asking for accountability. Now he's an ass that is clear but at least he wants to make things better, everyone else seems fine with missing deadlines and playing catch-up. Whenever they're called on it they say "that's the Buffalo Way" or that's how things are in the "North" but there are a lot of businesses in the North who don't operate that way.

[–] cutterpin 12 years ago

I agree with you. He manage to get some good contract for the electra. Last season Joe was compaining that business was low, so he should be happy about thoses contracts. Instead Joe bitch about the contract and Duan should have take into account blah blah blah. Because of thoses contracts, 2 crew were recertified for flying the electra. Now he wants to hire a new guy who is going to take 6 months to check how things work in Buffalo?

There would have been a lot of time left if the mechanic had knew were the fuse was for the starter. If the captain would have act like a captain and go to rest instead of playing rampie. And what the heck taking a day off visiting around and playing on the sim. They are the one who should be fired/suspended. Duane is doing what he can to bring something new to this company. They would have had days instead of just five minutes. If i had a company I would hire this guy because he his hard working, polite and he stays cool.

What will Joe do when AvGas is no more available?

[–] careful_icarus 12 years ago

As expected the tv show is a cut and paste of the facts to make a story.

duane is not a full-time employee of buffalo, he was only there 1 week/month, that's why it was only revealed at the end on the series he lived elsewhere.

there was an off camera indecent that caused the actual delay 'window' at the time that they went on the simulator course. You can also use sim hours as a component of your total time so it was a huge saving to buffalo.

buffalo usually quote on jobs and sit back, not bid, the electra contacts were won on bids with other companies.

the electra program made money and one of the contracts was only $2K cheaper than a competitor, meaning that 'more profit' had to come from efficiency, not charging more.

Joe (and mikey) knew about the tight budget 3 weeks before they did it, they filmed it and re enacted it for drama, for example at the exact time mikey called duane to bitch they had a film crew at both ends?, really?

buffalo does not want change and that is how joe and the buffalo 'family' likes it!

[–] cutterpin 12 years ago

thank you Icarus,

you seem really up to date about the show. I don't usually like reality shows but i like Irt and ice pilot. I know there is always drama in those show. But I can't stand the way duane appears on tv. He genuinely looks like someone who was willing to find work hard to find work for the electras. I don't know a lot about planes but the possible shortage of AvGas seems possible. The "modern" electra should be use more and duane was doing is part for that. Of course i know it is a show and i had a small company in the 90's and from that i understand that running a company like Buffalo Airways is not easy. Sometimes i would like to go to Yellowknife and ask some questions. I would ask Mickey because Joe is terrifying.. Anyways thanks Icarus for the answers and i hope the show will go on for many seasons.

[–] careful_icarus 12 years ago

no problem,

yep, next season is half way through filming now.

duanes company was inherited, his family is well known in nwt aviation

'Avgas'/100ll shortage is not the problem the show makes it out to be, if they get into trouble the extra fuel just flys with them in drums as cargo.

mikey's on twitter, you can ask him anything you like.

the electras are to compete with other large turboprop cargoplanes from the likes of firstair (herc's etc) ,nothing can compete with the dc-3/4 and 46's as they don't make (new) piston cargo aircraft that big.

duane is not without fault though, although he did get the electras thawed and off the apron the scheduling issues with the resolute bay contract was his fault.

the problem was that duane didn't know or care about certain operation standards that buffalo has, particularly the requirement of crew to be with the aircraft during loading. In larger airlines when the cargo handler damages the aircraft it's the cargo handlers fault but for buffalo that is not the case. A cargo handler for buffalo can mean a half drunk villager using a front loader as a fork lift to wiggle out odd shaped cargo. On the show you've seen even seen the captain involved unloading and loading, this is because you can't go back to joe and say that the plane got banged up while we were in our hotel beds, joe needs someone to yell at - so the crew is responsible to make sure nothing happens to the plane. Duane didn't care about this and so it wasn't in his schedule as he has 'big' company thinking and, as you saw in the show, couldn't understand why the electra crew didn't leave the army alone to load the plane.

now,.. the electra is much more vulnerable to bumps as it's a pressurised aircraft, one small knock on the edge of a door and it wont be able to get a pressure seal, effectively grounding the aircraft. The crew know this can happen easily so they stayed with the aircraft.

[–] velvetjoneslives 12 years ago

I don't understand the love of piston aircraft with this company. The fuel is expensive and dangerous, the engines need constant overhaul, and they're unreliable. A turbo-prop runs on normal jet fuel, can log about 50 times as many hours between an overhaul, and are far more reliable and safe. If you want to keep running DC-3s and 4s at least do TP conversions on them.

Also, who would ever work for this company? The boss is a complete a**hole, they pay crap, and the working conditions are atrocious. I can see it being fun maybe if you were a junior pilot, but once you had a few hundred hours under your belt who would ever stick around that place.

[–] careful_icarus 12 years ago

the piston aircraft are one of the 'tricks' with buffalo; they cost nothing to run, lift large cargo, land on dirt runways, cheap to replace, share parts, the repair and maintenance is handled internally, etc...

the fuel is cheap and dangerous?, kerosene even has a lower autoignition point than petrol but I wouldn't call either more safe.

a hercules (turbine) could never compete for price on the work they do. (hercs are ~$18K per hour to fly!)

'overhaul' service kits on turbine engines all run into the 10's of thousands (per turbine!!).

a turbine conversion on a dc3 costs millions (5 iirc), unfortunately it could never pay itself back and yes buffalo went over this option too (not in the show though).

low time pilots start work for this company, crap pay is part of being a low hour pilot, a few hundred hours? haha i wish. A 'proper' airline job takes thousands and in the type they're looking for.

yes, joe lets his emotion get the better of him.

[–] velvetjoneslives 12 years ago

Have you ever worked with AVGAG, or even regular gas, compared to kerosene? Kerosene will burn, but it is not combustible at normal pressure. Gas on the other hand can explode with the the slightest spark. Just compare the number of fuel related fires in piston power planes compared to jets/turbo jets. There is no comparison. Though I guess that far north it might be easier to keep AVGAS from gelling up all the time.

I did do a search, I guess a TP conversion is pricy compared to say a Beech-craft. I saw prices around $2-2.5 for full conversion. I guess the bulk of the cost if redoing structure to handle the increase power, as well as changes to the fuel tanks. At that cost I can see the RTO taking forever. I do disagree on maintenance. The cost of the overhaul kit is far outweighed by how often you have to overall. A low hours turboprop can go years without an overhaul. Those DC-3 engines are suppose to be torn down 100+ hours or so. I'm not sure Buffalo follows such a rigid schedule, but that might also explain why the planes run like sh*t. Still, this is why piston planes died such a quick commercial death. Planes like the Connie and the DC-6 were dropped almost immediately as soon as TP and jets became available, maintenance and reliability was one of the biggest reasons.