Ok... So.... What??


Man, I came on IMDB immediately after finishing this film because I was a bit confused.

I can't believe this only has 169 ratings and a handful of messages on the IMDB!! This movie is awesome!

But anyway, can anyone who has seen the film help explain the ending?

So, the crazy cabin guy is actually the L Ron Hubbard guy (can't remember the guy's name from the movie, you know what i mean). So when he shoots his future self, what actually happens? What did he mean by "We already failed this time"? Is this actually the third layer of time? Who was the guy who picked up the gem at the end? was that the documentary guy with a shaved face? What the hell does that imply?

Also, David James makes a comment "You dont know what it was like the first time" and then right after that says "Nobody has been to December 22nd yet". Was he just referring to the modern times of the first era before time travel?


I thought this movie did a great job of making sense of it's theory of time travel, and presented it in an almost believable way, but the end just kinda melted my brain.

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So, the crazy cabin guy is actually the L Ron Hubbard guy (can't remember the guy's name from the movie, you know what i mean). So when he shoots his future self, what actually happens? What did he mean by "We already failed this time"? Is this actually the third layer of time? Who was the guy who picked up the gem at the end? was that the documentary guy with a shaved face? What the hell does that imply?


They are stuck in a loop and he is having deja vu from the other dimensions bleeding through.

The guy who picked up the stone was the guy in the Polaroid. You can see him standing behind a pillar having his picture taken during the climax.

The French guy found the footage that took place in his future, but the film and recordings were thousands of years old. What this means is that the film and video that the team recorded went back to the past with them and they stored it in the vault.

Also, David James makes a comment "You dont know what it was like the first time" and then right after that says "Nobody has been to December 22nd yet". Was he just referring to the modern times of the first era before time travel?


The lunans in the movie haven't been to Dec 22nd because they are stuck in a time loop. Immortal Hilliard kills Mortal Hillard and then everything resets. The rest of the world continues on it's merry way as evidenced by the news report and the video being posted online. The other lunans that founded the city on the moon are normal people who moved there in our future. It was when they started going into the past and got stuck in the time loop that they were cut off from going past Dec 21. If the Hilliards ever manage not to kill each other, then the loop will be broken.

I thought this movie did a great job of making sense of it's theory of time travel, and presented it in an almost believable way, but the end just kinda melted my brain.


It was very well done, IMO. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

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See here: When Immortal Hilliard kills Mortal Hilliard, Immortal Hilliard can no longer exist, so that act must represent the loop being broken!!! You're saying that the death of Mortal Hilliard *perpetuates* the loop?? I don't see how that in any way makes sense. Or is it a loop precisely because it is a paradox? That seems a bit... loopy!

And I didn't get the thing about a "test", either, that was mentioned in the final conversation.

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The loop is definitely caused by the killing of mortal Hilliard, though I'm not 100% sure on the reasoning. The paradox or something might cause a reaction in the stone. Another possibility could be mortal Hilliard has come to far in his work or something for immortal Hilliard to kill himself (hence why he wanted to kill his baby self on the moon). It all seems a bit strange to me as well.

Regardless of how, I believe Immortal Hilliard is purposely resetting the loop until he can get a dimension he wants to continue past the 21st in (which he would do by simply not killing his mortal self theoretically). My reasoning is that he says "We already Failed this time" and implies that he's killed himself in the same situation in different dimensions.

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Here is how the time loop was created, and why it's destined to happen over and over again:

When Immortal Hilliard kills Mortal Hilliard, it negates the fact that Hilliard became immortal at all - he didn't live long enough to become immortal. However, if Hilliard never became immortal, he never could have gone back in time to kill himself before he became immortal ... therefore, Hilliard becomes immortal because he was never shot, goes back in time and kills himself, which, prevents Hilliard from becoming immortal so there is no immortal Hilliard to go back in time ....

You get the picture. It's just an endless loop that's destined to keep repeating itself ...

Just as if you were to go back in time and kill your grandfather. This would prevent your father and then you from being born ... but if you were never born, you couldn't have gone back in time to kill your grandfather. And if your grandfather was never killed, then he would have had your father and then your father you ... and then you would be around to go back in time to kill your grandfather ...

To paraphrase a Starfleet captain, "Time travel gives me a headache!"

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"Let's make sure history never forgets ... the name ... Enterprise." -Captain Jean Luc Picard

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Here is how the time loop was created, and why it's destined to happen over and over again:

That can't be. it's a very classic take on the grandfather paradox (which doesn't fit in all time travel theories but let's put that aside) but it doesn't apply here.
If it did, how do you explain that the polaroid and the footage are found in the past? There is time traveling going on after the killing. Just not from Hilliard and his people.

There are alternating timelines.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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The loop is definitely caused by the killing of mortal Hilliard, though I'm not 100% sure on the reasoning

If you accept the premise that the Luna Stone comes from other time travelers who are testing Hilliard and his group (and humanity through them I guess), you'll see things more clearly.

Let's theorize that the people testing them are the ones putting the Luna Stone where they know humanity will find it (on the Moon for the Apollo 11 crew to find).
They want to see what humanity will do with this power. They hope they will show restraint and not use it. It seems plausible enough considering the reset the timeline goes through and the fact that guy picks up the Luna Stone and the footage, which is found in the past "later".

Regardless of how, I believe Immortal Hilliard is purposely resetting the loop until he can get a dimension he wants to continue past the 21st in (which he would do by simply not killing his mortal self theoretically). My reasoning is that he says "We already Failed this time" and implies that he's killed himself in the same situation in different dimensions.

Heh. That's what he believes, and that's why he kills his other self: because he believes "failing the test" happens if you change the past. So by killing his other self, he prevents his other self from going back to the past and changing it.
The paradox here is that by killing himself, he's also seeking to change his past. So he's trying to prevent failing the test by killing himself but in the end, it's just another way he fails the test.


For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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See here: When Immortal Hilliard kills Mortal Hilliard, Immortal Hilliard can no longer exist, so that act must represent the loop being broken!!! You're saying that the death of Mortal Hilliard *perpetuates* the loop?? I don't see how that in any way makes sense. Or is it a loop precisely because it is a paradox? That seems a bit... loopy!

It certainly is a paradox but if there are others traveling to the past as Mortal Hilliard implies (and as the movie implies since the guy who picks up the Luna Stone and the footage is probably one of them), the killing doesn't create the loop in itself, it perpetuates it because as long as Hilliard is trying to change past, he is failing the test and the others reset the test again.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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The French guy found the footage that took place in his future, but the film and recordings were thousands of years old. What this means is that the film and video that the team recorded went back to the past with them and they stored it in the vault.

I don't think that's what it means at all. You can clearly see the guy at the end picking up the camera and the Luna Stone. He's the one putting it in a vault in the past. The camera crew never traveled to the past.

If the Hilliards ever manage not to kill each other, then the loop will be broken.

I don't think so. I believe the test Hilliard is referring to is about getting the power of changing the past but not using it.




For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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I admit I don't understand exactly what happened with Hilliard killing Other Hilliard or how that affected things.

However, one thing I think the film makes clear: The documentary guys were operating in an earlier time loop. When whatever happens with the Hilliards happens, time resets and what is presumably the current loop begins. That's how the "French" (worst French accent ever) narrator is able to find the documents and videos in 1992, even though the events take place in 2012. Somehow all that stuff was stored and survived through the entire new (that is, current) loop until he found them. This is why the venue changes from a hotel dining room to a mall. In the docu guys' loop, it was a hotel. In our loop, it's a mall. From that, I gather that all the interviews were in current time and that only the footage shot by the docu makes is in the "past" - which is not really the past but a parallel stream of time. Apparently, their stream and ours are almost exactly alike in terms of culture and technology, although we don't know what historical events may have been different.

Did I get that right? And is the cat alive or dead in the box? :-)

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So when he shoots his future self, what actually happens?

At this point, the movie seems to operate on a Mutable Timeline theory of time travel. So when Immortal Hilliard (David) kills (not his future self but) his *past* self, he changes things in the present by making it impossible for himself to travel back in time and change the past.
Apparently that results in a change of location, for some reason, but more than that, he disappears (since his now dead past self won't go back in time and become immortal) and so do the documentary guys but most likely because if Hilliard was never immortal, he never directed them to stone and all the events in the "found footage" never happened so they have no reason to be there.

What did he mean by "We already failed this time"?

The Other Hilliard learned more than Immortal Hilliard knew (which doesn't fit with the Mutable Timeline theory but whatever) and he learned that the Luna Stone came from other time travelers who were "testing them".
Immortal Hilliard believes they failed the test because they tried to take on the power of the stone and change history. However, his next step is illogical in that perspective, since he kills the Other Hilliard, changing history again. I guess he believes that they'll go back to the original timeline that way but obviously they don't since the deja vu he's experiencing means he's done that before and they are back to those events.

Is this actually the third layer of time?

It's at least the 3rd layer of time (although that would mean they switch back and forth between Mutable and Alternate Timelines theories)
In the original timeline (let's call it Timeline 0), Hilliard goes back to the past, changes events, thereby creating Timeline 1 (2nd layer of time), creates Lunopolis, becomes immortal and decides time travel is bad and tried to kill himself at birth. He fails and wait to kill his Other self right before the time traveling.
BUT he says he's had this conversation with his Other Self before. And the documentary guys already took the polaroid in another timeline. So the cycle already repeated at least one other time. I think there are alternating timelines though so it's probably more than that because they are not the only time travelers.

Who was the guy who picked up the gem at the end? was that the documentary guy with a shaved face?

It wasn't. It's the guy from the polaroid. My guess is he's part of the "others" Hilliard mentions who are testing them by putting the Luna Stone where they can find it. They give them the opportunity to travel through time and waits to see what they do with that power. That's the test they have been failing.
He takes the stone and the footage and resets the whole test.

Also, David James makes a comment "You dont know what it was like the first time" and then right after that says "Nobody has been to December 22nd yet". Was he just referring to the modern times of the first era before time travel?

He was. Of course he has no idea if that was the first era before time travel if someone else has been screwing with the timeline. It's the first timeline before he and his group ever time traveled, and that they wanted to change.
For all we know, it could also have been part of the test: making the timeline so bad that they'd want to go back and change things. Creating a problem and offering a solution via the Luna Stone.

And when he says "nobody has been to December 22nd", I believe he's wrong. Nobody in his group has been past that date because he keeps killing his Other Self and making it impossible for him to time travel. However if someone else is traveling back, things can keep changing anyway and obviously the world goes on since we saw the broadcast.


For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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