so I was waiting to see what exactly was Arnold's hang up here. Why didnt he want to engage in her anymore and more specifically what was the deal with his eyes shut and when he looked at her ....he stopped what he was doing??
I get that he said it wast about her looks, and I get that, but what was is it then? I keep thinking....did I miss something or did this movie just suck??
You didn't miss anything, and the movie didn't suck.
There's no easy answer to lack-of-intimacy problems. Not explaining Arnold's problem in this scene is a great way to get people to think about what could have caused it.
See the 'Here's a serious question for the guys in the audience' thread, specifically the posts by notricks66, moistsnackcake, ivyarrived, and jolelak for some interesting ideas.
"Makeup is pointless!"
I get that. However all along I was kind of waiting for something...the set up pretty much made you think something was coming, his talks with the therapist, his problem performing. Suddenly, quite out of the blue, he has a "revelation", which is not shared with the audience, and he in fact wants to sleep with his wife again. Huh?
I love these two actors and on the strength of that went to see this. I must respectfully disagree however, in that this movie was pretty flat and gave you nothing really into "insight" as to how/why couples lose their intimacy (if that is what they were going for, b/c quite frankly I searched high and low for a "meaning" here and couldn't find one.)
The use of Elizabeth Shue for all of...2 minutes. Wasted. I was looking forward to her character having some more teeth in this.
The use of Andie McDowell at the end, 30 seconds. Cameo I guess.
Just kept thinking ok what are you trying to say here. I dont know. In hindsight, I would have waited for a rental.
Everyone has a right to his/her opinion. Be thankful we have that right.
I'm sorry you were disappointed in the film. Based on the posts on this board, a lot of people were evidently disappointed. Certainly the trailer is misleading.
Here's my take:
The "set up," as you call it, made me think (and hope) that what was coming was a reconnection between Arnold and Kay, not just a sexual reconnection, but a revitalization of their marriage.
I don't think Arnold had a revelation or that what he did was out of the blue. He was a routine-ridden guy who was startled out of his routine when his wife made good on her announcement that she was going to Maine. They started to make progress as a couple because of the counseling there. Arnold went to a lot of trouble to get a table at the restaurant and book the nice hotel. So he had gotten his hopes up, but because he was so disappointed during the scene you mention, he was afraid to hope again. Just safer to go back to the way he'd been than to risk being disappointed like that again.
I think it was a combination of Dr. Feld's remark, "Your wife is very unhappy. Have you done everything you can?" etc., Kay's comment that she didn't know if she COULD go back to the way they were, and Arnold's own realization that, scared though he was, he wanted to try again, that caused him to go into Kay's bedroom at the end. There was a progression there; it wasn't out of the blue.
I don't think the film means to give insight as to why marriages go flat. It's the story of a couple whose marriage is flat and here's
what happened to them. It's a story, not a primer on intimacy.
The story is about Arnold and Kay. A number of Elizabeth Shue fans are unhappy about her brief appearance, but what could her character have done that would have contributed to the Arnold/Kay story?
Just my opinions, of course.
"Makeup is pointless!"
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Thank you for a well written reply!It made me want to see it when it comes here next month.
share
FriendoftheBard (Shakespeare)
Thank you for your reply. I suppose I didnt really think of it that way really, a bit distracted by Meryl's stellar acting. But in hindsight, given the routine and the failure aspect, I can see where his "revelation" or decision to try again came from.
I did always get the feeling that there was a deep connection there. Never doubted he didnt love her and still found her attractive.
Dr. Feld's remark about having done everything you can is the one thing I did take away from the movie and it was a profound one line.
Ahh yes initially I thought Elizabeth Shue would provide some words of wisdom as the trustee bartender. But, I realize the story was all about Kay and Arnold.
Everyone has a right to his/her opinion. Be thankful we have that right.
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Suddenly, quite out of the blue, he has a "revelation"
“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Maybe the figured out that the person he loved the most was going to leave him so he decided to man up and get through those feelings or lack there of. Sometimes you are with someone who is comfortable to be with and you loose sight of telling them how you feel and letting you know you love them. Maybe also the lack of sex was not because he was not attracted to his wife anymore but maybe some Low-T is going on and maybe it's psychological. Just my 2 cents.
I agree, I thought when he went into Kay's room at the end he was going to explain what happened. I guess he didn't need to....
BTW, that wasn't Andie McDowell at the end, it was Mimi Rogers. She played the older Mrs. Kensington in the Austin Powers movies.
You're right. He didn't need to explain. He went into Kay's room to let her know he loved her, in what ever way he could. It didn't matter if it was a complete sexual act of just holding her in bed. Kay needed to feel loved for herself, not just her physical body.
Good story about a couple who lets you get to know them and care about them too.
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It's MiMi Rogers who plays the neighbor...and about the whole shutting eyes issue....my sister came up with the possibility that maybe he cheated in the past and had a hard time facing her...? I'm not sure what happened either but I did like the movie...it's so real.
"In Vino Veritas"
The use of Andie McDowell at the end, 30 seconds. Cameo I guess.
That was Mimi Rogers.
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newmoonmg I agree with you and said the same things you've been saying in my review.
I wouldn't say that the movie "sucked;" I would say that it failed.
http://www.amazon.com/Save-Send-Delete-Danusha-Goska/dp/1846949866
No, you were right, the movie sucked.
shareI don't think he had a hang-up or had a revelation. I think the only revelation he had was that he wanted his wife to be happy - and what made her happy was more important than what makes him happy.
A lot of people prefer to keep their eyes closed for varied reasons. Perhaps they're fantasizing about other people? Perhaps it enhances their pleasure? Perhaps it's habit they don't want to break? What's so wrong with it?
He made all that effort with the dinner and the room - he was the one to initiate the romance with his wife beyond all that.. but when he was finally really into it and she pushed him to look at her, perhaps it broke his momentum and he couldn't get to it again.
The movie did not suck. It was just too real for people to accept as 'entertainment'.
Here's my take on his shutting his eyes. He felt disappointed in HIMSELF. He had given up on the deep emotional connections in marriage. When he looked into the eyes of that ONE person whom he had committed to... that ONE person who was expecting, hoping, BEGGING for more, he couldn't take it. He knew he was a huge disappointment to her and it was SOOOO scary to him to risk being fragile and vulnerable. He was a disappointment to HIMSELF. He felt inadequate - his wife was miserable and he was utterly terrified.
That's how it seemed to me, anyway. He was afraid of how much he had disappointed his wife - and himself. True intimacy was scary to him - being vulnerable in that way. It was more comfortable for him to avoid those things he feared, as well as reminders of them.
They both played it brilliantly. It was painful to watch but redeemed itself. I've seen couples go through this sort of thing. It might not be of interest to younger audiences; I don't know. I found it brilliant.
You know what they say... no one with missing teeth wears an Armani suit.
dbh850 -
I just read through the whole thread, and yours is the first and only interpretation that makes sense. (To me, anyway; there are no wrong answers.)
I think it's not only wrong for the movie, but also for the character Kay to not have a clear explanation him losing it. With her (understandable) insecurity, and so much hanging on the moment, she needed to know for sure that it wasn't about her.
I too thought they were setting up for some revelation (not even a major one, just major to him), and I don't like it when movies set something up, then don't deliver. (Don't get me started on No Country For Old Men.)
"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns
Gosh - THANK YOU for the lovely response! I'm accustomed to having people - well, I don't know. Yell at me or something. Sometimes I wonder how many 13 year olds are on these boards. As far as I know, I've never said anything offensive to anyone here. And I certainly have never insulted anyone. But sometimes, some people get so upset at an opinion. And when I see what some people say to each other - wow. I'm thinking... these are MOVIES. This isn't the economy or war or cancer or anything big - we're just talking about movies.
I confess, it sometimes gives me a bit of a chuckle. I think some of those folks need to see some more REAL pain in life to suss out what's actually important. I posted once about really disliking a film adaptation of a book and one person said I was ignorant and should go back to school. Wow! Because someone doesn't like a film, that's upsetting? Lucky chap, that fellow. I mean, if that was really important to him, he must have a very soft life.
Thank you for the lovely response. It seemed that way to me, but I certainly don't know. It just was how it felt to this old lady. And I think you and I share some views on No Country for Old Men.
:-)
You know what they say... no one with missing teeth wears an Armani suit.
Believe it or not, I only just stumbled upon your reply now. I am well over 13, but I've noticed the same thing on the boards. Fortunately the films I watch tend not to be teenybopper material. :-)
For instance, I just finished pouring through that Mildred Pierce miniseries and invested three hours in Cloud Atlas. Both worth it in the long run, but for a while I wasn't sure.
"Well, for once the rich white man is in control!" C. M. Burns
I came here to see if anyone else was left unsatisfied about the shut-eyes question too - so gratified there is this post! I found it really annoying. Regardless of whether anyone commenting here is right with their idea, I think they should have at least referred to some sort of resolution about it in the movie. It left me frustrated. But, overall, a sweet movie which I really liked, with good performances regarding a touchy subject - intimacy.
shareIt was explained, actually, when they were having that exchange at the Dr.'s office, yelling and accusing each other. He said he had wanted her but she kept rejecting him and being shy about giving him what he wanted, so he just stopped it altogether. His hangup was fear of rejection.
Doesn't help that they are both fairly reserved people, too. The Dr., by the way, immediately picked up the issue; "What are you afraid of, Arnold?"
His hangup was fear of rejection
Who do you know really have great intimacy in a great love relationship (here in America)? For great in-to-me-see, may I suggest "soul gazing" from short distance where you bot fix your soft gaze at your lover (or even yourself in the mirror).
Romantic mythology is designed to hide in an illusion, a box with payoff that ultimately fail as strategies do. It's like having romantic darken lights or candles & then immediately turn on really bright lights. Kind of kills the mood, don't you think? Besides that too many men have a terrible diet of too much meat, too much non-organic food, sugary soft drinks & other junk food, and then they become sexually dysfunctional with erectile dysfunction (E.D.) even though they appear all manly, virile, handsome & powerful (before they drop dead from a heart attack or whatever, leave their wife with a fortune she didn't earn or possible deserve - making women more wealthy than men).