2.2 rating??


I don't get it. It played at a bunch of fests, won a lot of awards, got a lot of positive feedback, yet holds a 2.2 imdb rating (from just 10 users).

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I'm heading out to it tomorrow at the Toronto After Dark festival so I looked it up and that 2.2 looks pretty nasty. With just 10 users, the result is likely not too realistic (also, people can be so cruel). I'll drop back on Friday and let you know what I think.

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i saw this tonight, also at the toronto after dark festival. overall it was good - the acting was good, had some pretty funny/entertaining parts. but to be honest i felt like something was lacking. it had great potential, but when it was over i just wasn't satisfied. i wasn't disappointed, but i didn't think it was great. definitely not a 2.2 rating, though. i'd recommend people see it ... just wish it had that extra element it was lacking to really charge it into a great film.

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I agree that it could have been more and maybe didn't live up to it's potential but I was pretty well satisfied over all. Given the time and money constraints the film makers were under I was pretty impressed. Even if I wasn't cutting it some "indie slack" I'd rate it well worth a look and if you think about it, there's not many shows that even have great potential so I'm happy when comes along. My rating is 7.5 (since IMDB doesn't do halfs, I'll round up to 8 to try to counter that 2.2 crap).

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IMDB is the absolute worst. They continue to serve only the needs of the mega films, trying desperately to squash smaller budget films any chance they can.
158 voters give this a score of Arithmetic mean = 7.1 Median = 8, but the User rating is "5.0"?
The reason is that IMDB uses a weighted system. They give more weight to more frequent users who have been on the site longer and have cast more votes, more reviews. They are trying to prevent people from stuffing the ballot and give films high scores. But what they really do is the exact opposite. They allow those who dislike a film more power.
I heard through one person who no longer works at IMDB, that a "1" vote from a "weighted" voter, you'd have to get ten "10" votes to equal that.

The main problem is that IMDB tries to pass itself off as a professional website. This behavior is not professional.

CRAZE has been getting solid reviews, won awards, but because a select few hold so much voting power, the user rating shows this film as being less favorable and a worse movie than GROWN UPS 2.

Think about that IMDB.

Ditch the weighted system. It is not fair to smaller films, the films that don't have the mega marketing behind it. That count on word of mouth.

You're helping kill small movies.

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Oh come with all that conspiracy crap, nobody is out to get small budget Indie films, if anything this site and it's experienced voters, weighted Top1000 whatever, are all willing to give more credit to a mediocre micro-budget film than anything, I tell you that by a very large amount of experience here. You're obviously jaded by a past failure and nothing more, you're certainly not very familiar with this site and the inner workings of the ratings system.

The fact that you compared this film with of all things Grown Ups 2 says just about everything. Forget apples to oranges that's like apples to rocks.

A 5.2/10 isn't a bad rating btw

If a film is worthy of credit, truly worthy then the rating will even out, if so many people loved it so much then how come not one single actual IMDb user has given it a review???

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I use a tinfoil helmet when I use IMDb. I know their game. Walt Disney controls the site from beyond the grave!!

Intro - Jellyman, Offspring, Offspring, Jellyman. Gimme some fin, noggin, dude!

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Whoa! Are you saying that there are times when you don't wear your tinfoil helmet?

You are operating at a level of insane I am not accustomed to!

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I'm proudly sporting it right now. I'm waiting and a custom Calvin Kline one arriving any time soon. THAT sucka will never be off.

Thanks for the silver-foiled heads up, dude! I'll be more careful in future using this wicked site!!

And Emma Lung gave me a boner!

Intro - Jellyman, Offspring, Offspring, Jellyman. Gimme some fin, noggin, dude!

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Dude you are so right...Emma Lung was smoking in bed. Made the flick watchable at least. Gave it a 6 only for the no panties scene.

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have you actually read the IMDB rules about "user ratings"?

It's not a conspiracy.

FROM IMDB: The User Rating score of a title in the Internet Movie Database is based on a "weighted average" of the votes cast by our large base of registered users on a 1 to 10 scale (10 being best). Weighting takes into account additional factors and calculations besides just the number of people who voted and what their votes were. That means it is not the arithmetic average or arithmetic mean of the scores, though those can be seen by looking at the detailed breakdown of the user ratings.

We use this formula to help prevent organized groups of people from attempting to "stuff the ballot box" and create an artificially inflated (or deflated) rating for a title. To prevent abuse of the system, we do not disclose what the additional factors and calculations in the formula are.


So even they admit, right in the rules, that they do not treat all votes the same. They apply "additional factors and calculations". They tell you this.

They decide what the rating is.

not the voters. not the users.

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Yes, it's very possible that my vote > than your vote, you seem to think that unjust or unfair. It's really not unfair at all, here are the reasons why it should be no mystery, whether or not you agree with them, and why I trust the IMDb rating MOST of the time.

Personally, I spend a LOT of time on this site and when I'm not on this site I'm watching film or doing something film related. It's what I do, you go to school every day or to work, I research and watch film, sometimes 7+ films a day mixed in with certain TV series`. I do this daily and vote, comment and review such films. My ratings are somewhere around 6,700 titles that I've identified on this site since I joined and I add numerous titles every day as I watch the films. So I think I know when to spot the often dubbed "worst movie ever" and when a real gem has been made, and every single level in between. It's not a definite logic, as the IMDb didn't administer an IQ test to me when I registered, but it's as close as any site or film source can come to knowing when & if a user is a regular voter over time & or trustable to have their vote carry more weight at any certain time.

Now before you draw a conclusion, I'm not boasting of my personal experience, as(though most users hide their ratings) I've come across many a user with 10,000+ votes and believe it or not I've seen user's with over 10,000+ IMDb user reviews!
With almost 5 million members now there is going to be quite an assortment of very experienced film fanatics from across the globe using this site. So while it appears at times that I am included in the top1000 vote count it's not a definitive thing, they may rotate certain groups of users that are used for any one film as for who their top1000 are, that way no one user would ever have a definite known higher weight vote in the system.

The more film that one watches, the more critical one becomes. For instance I started out voting the previously viewed films from the past at a high rating and over time it's tightened up more & more, making it much tougher for a film that I see now to achieve the highest score, but at the same time, badly produced, directed and acted films are going to be judged much much less forgivably.
__________________________________________________________________________________


The above should be made into a sticky in the weighted rating description and it would solve thousands of complaints made by novice users and help regular users get a feel for what is so often misunderstood and thought as some diabolical IMDb plan to hold down YOUR favorite film.

Like it says already in the weighted area, if you disagree with the weighted average you are always free to use the arithmetic mean(actual numeric average as voted)

(SIDE NOTE) The very people that read professional critics opinions are the same people that criticize the IMDb rating, they trust critics because that is what critics do, they have tons of film experience so people respect their opinion, but yet those people cry out here for the site using the same credential system. As with critics, many will disagree with opposing opinions for reasons as simple as their own personal preference. Regardless of quality we will never all agree to love any one certain film.

^Hopefully this didn't come out as one of my insane caffeine injected rants and as more of a philosophical in depth answer to one of the universes greatest mysteries, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference






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by Killer_Movie »
^Hopefully this didn't come out as one of my insane caffeine injected rants and as more of a philosophical in depth answer to one of the universes greatest mysteries, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference


It did, I think, come off exactly as you intended. It's usually the cookies & milk that tilts me way off center.

I was hoping that IMDb could 1 day determine whether or not a voter had actually paid to see a film & give credence to that as well. There are, it seems many people voting unfairly for whatever reason. One has to assume that they are also voting favorably for other films, as well. So maybe it all washes out anyway.


"If people like you don't learn from what happened to people like me..." -Professor Rohl

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So you're here on the CRAVE board, You saw this film, I assume. Do you think it deserves a 5.0?
The reviews are awesome, the average score is much higher, but all anyone sees is 5.0
5.0 tells anyone coming here this movie sucks. That it's unprofessionally made. In comparison, GROWN UPS 2 has a 5.3 User rating.

You've reviewed over 6700 films. If Grown Ups 2 can garner a higher score than Crave, than the IMDb system is flawed. IMDB is supposed to be a professional website. But it's not. It's also for fans. The 2 are colliding.

So if IMDB gives more weight to a "1" vote or a person who votes more often, how is this fair?

Do you think Scott Rudin votes on IMDB? He's a professional. Deals with films. IMDB has a system in place to prevent Scott Rudin from ballot stuffing "10"'s but but a system in place to stop every teen boy from "stuffing" "1" votes.

I just think because the system is imperfect, IMDB should not put the User Rating so prominently displayed. It does a disservice to the films and unfairly biases someone's opinion.

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It's apparent that regardless of whatever combination of words,facts and truths I offer you that you're not going to be satisfied with sum of its parts. As for it's IMDb rating, a 5/10 doesn't tell me or anyone that a film sucks. That is something that you are implying. For an Indie flick, it's not bad and far from being unprofessionally made, personally I gave it a 6/10(6.4) which really is inconsequential to the point. Still there isn't a single user review on the site which is incredibly odd, if the film touched people so deeply they sure weren't keen on passing it on.

And what in the non-existent gods name has a $80 million dollar comedy film's rating have to do with a low budget Indie Drama Thrillers?

As dumb as the "masses" are they don't make decisions on a single number on IMDb, they read reviews and look at the ratings breakdown. That number IS just a number

So if IMDB gives more weight to a "1" vote or a person who votes more often, how is this fair?


Either reread my above post or do this until it becomes clear.

Do you think Scott Rudin votes on IMDB? He's a professional. Deals with films.


Scott Rudin...the producer? He is free to do whatever he wants, but I sincerely doubt that he votes on this site, why would he? He finances films and surely he could care less about anything that isn't profitable or that isn't directly related to his business.

IMDB has a system in place to prevent Scott Rudin from ballot stuffing "10"'s but but a system in place to stop every teen boy from "stuffing" "1" votes.


I cannot answer that in which I cannot make sense of.

I just think because the system is imperfect, IMDB should not put the User Rating so prominently displayed. It does a disservice to the films and unfairly biases someone's opinion.


So it still remains your opinion after all I've said previously that the site is unfair, it's still just your opinion and you're free to have it. Maybe start a revolution for rating readjustment,lol, good luck getting those petitions signed.

One final bit I'll say, over all the films I've rated, I've rated well over 2,000 of them over 2 to 3 points higher than the IMDb rating, hell maybe more. Everybody has their own specific genre and votes accordingly to them.




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Just because you said what you said, doesn't make it the "law".

And your opinion is just that YOUR opinion.

Click the link below, you will see I'm not alone in thinking IMDB is unfair.
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/imdb-c444328.html

We disagree on IMDB being fair. Agree?

I have several industry folks tell me that they go to IMDB to check on a film. If they see a low score, they immediately think it's not good.

So your argument about a 5.0 doesn't say it's bad is false. Some folks DO. You maybe don't. But I'm letting you know others do. Executives at companies and studios do. The User rating does matter in some circles. You would hope that any professional judging someone or some film would watch the film to judge for themselves, but we know that's not always the case.

IMDB passes itself off as a professional website. Not just a fan site. So even if it's not intentional, low scores have an affect on professionals.

ROTTEN TOMATOES for example doesn't hide itself. It's for fans and critic reviews. And folks going to this site can see which films are connecting with audiences, or critics or both or neither. They don't pretend to be anything they're not.

I guess call me old fashioned, but when a film like CRAVE has a median rating from users of 8.0 and a mean of 6.7, to see a 5.0 user rating tells me that their voting system is flawed.

What's the harm in simply allowing the average score to be displayed? How much worse would the world be?

And no one is suggesting you can't vote a 2 or 3 or 1 or whatever you feel. But when a small film, LIKE CRAVE, clearly has a lopsided discrepancy between the user rating and the actual rating it's not fair. And it makes people less likely to seek out CRAVE. The median score is an 8.0, the user rating a 5.0. Are you honestly telling me, if you happened across this film's page and saw a rating of 8.0 it wouldn't pique your interest? Someone who watches a ton of films, you'd be interested. But if you see a film with a 5.0, you're most likely to pass on it. Maybe catch it if it ever makes it to Netflix or TV.

That's my point. I don't have an issue with a film who's User rating is a couple of percentage points from the median and mean scores. Like if we're talking a 5.5 user rating and a 5.7 Median/Mean. I agree there that 0.2 doesn't make a big difference.

But in the case of CRAVE, we're talking about a 2.0-3.0 point difference.

You get a 50% on a test, you fail, you get an 80%, you pass with plenty to spare. That's all I'm saying.

I can only assume that IMDB holds the weighted system close to their vest to protect their top 250. They suddenly wouldn't want a new generation who sees THE GODFATHER to weight it down. Or they wouldn't want TWILIGHT to get 5 million girls to vote "10" and make it #1.

That's really the only reason to employ a weighted system. Why else?

Pontificate if you'd like, but you won't convince me IMDB is fair. It's not. They even say they're not. They don't trust their subscribers. THEY determine the rating of the films.

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Remain in denial, but do note the information below:

You happen to see the Metacritic score of 19/100? Here is the external link to EXTERNAL CRITIC'S Reviews

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1535432/criticreviews?ref_=tt_ov_rt

http://www.metacritic.com/movie/crave

I'll paste part of em here just for kicks. I suppose these people are all payed the IMDb?

Crave (I) (2012) Total score 19/100 from all critic Reviews


4 critic reviews provided by Metacritic.com

50
RogerEbert.com Susan Wloszczyna

Crave, a creepy and deliberately paced thriller that is effective in its unpleasantness.

20
The Dissolve Nick Schager

Crave is nothing but empty movie-shout-out posturing.

20
Village Voice Pete Vonder Haar

Hey, Crave, the jerk store called, and they're running out of you.

12
Slant Magazine Chuck Bowen

The film's method of admitting its own hypocrisy so as to enable it to further indulge said hypocrisy grows more grating than if it were merely indifferently conceived junk like Falling Down.

Chew on that one for a while. Looks like you better start suing everyone with an opinion for slander,lol.

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Why not just try this?:
View the rating here with the necessary grain of salt under your tongue.
Watch the movie (whichever one it is) without the incumbent baggage of whatever that rating was.
Draw your own conclusion.
In short, think for yourself, hear what they're saying but listen to what they're not.
Vote your conscience.
I understand your concern that the "average" potential viewer of any given flick may off-hand make their viewing choice based solely on a number. In that instance the indie flick is likely to lose just based on production value, and attention span. I have serious doubts that the intended audience will be swayed by a single number designed to encompass all aspects of any movie. Now the bigger problem, I think, is that:
1) Hollywood has just taken a squeegee to the bottom of the barrel but is still managing to churn out, factory-like, shovelfuls of crap, then back the turds with ridiculous amounts of promotion. IMDB aside, force-feeding 2 min trailers that show the only 2 min worth seeing 17 times a day.
2) Indie suffers, too, from a glut. I mean you can make a movie now with the budget from the equity loan on a bicycle; so it's wheat and chaff, again.
Indie film is where a lot of originality comes from, I think, despite the volume. That in mind, I look at the number then read the reviews. If I see the words (or non words) "cuz" or "dem", or misuses of then, than, there, their, they're, where, were, or we're, I stop. That review is not written by anyone I could talk to, much less trust a review from; I can only imagine them ordering "expresso" and "excepting" awards with "acceptional" smart devices lighting "there" "facez", ugh. The kind of person who would be confused at the sight of a real live book.

The "I thought those were for holding shelves down." crowd.

I said all that to say this: I haven't seen Crave, the few reviews that actually deal with the movie and not the rating system (the time spent here ranting would be better spent pissing into a stiff breeze and then shopping for new pants, socks, and shoes) are at least cogent enough for me to give it a shot. Then I'll vote my conscience but not with a number.
This was meant to be my 2 cents; feels more like 37, gotta buy some pants, shoes, and socks.

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Ok, so now I've seen it. One previous reviewer mentioned that there is something "missing". I agree, there is. The unreliable narrator is tough to pull off, no matter the budget. For about five minutes it felt as if Fight Club had been re-cast, at least in mood and direction. I don't know what the "number" was when you posted (it's 5.4 now BTW and I'm "all in" with that number),it's definitely worth watching. The poster that said something was missing made mention of the voice-over. I found it distracting, if not heavy-handed, in some instances but I understand why it's there. The writing, filming, and/or budget probably necessitated it for connectivity. I watch films, I don't know how they're made, or pretend to know what should have been done to make them better. That kind of supposition is ridiculous anyway, kind of like hitting your head on the wall for not picking the winning lottery numbers after the drawing, that cement is already dry . I know I felt about as connected to the characters as I feel towards an action figure. They were stationary or static, to me.
In deference to your concern about a weighted rating system I committed to not casting a vote. I'm glad I did, b/c it's not a 6, it's not a 5, and I can't cast fractional votes.

But it is worth watching.

Does that help?

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I didn't find it really worth watching. It's one of those "if nothing is on" kind of flicks. The main problem is the main character is an unlikeable wimp who dreams of being an unlikeable douchebag. If this was seriously trying to emulate Fight Club it seriously missed the effing point. Then the movie ends without letting us see him be exposed for the pathetic loser he is. Ugh.

It did have some funny moments though. Zombie Edward Furlong was fantastic.

Don't try to cash in love, that check will always bounce.

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That's kinda like saying "The electoral college decides who the president is, not the voters". Technically correct, but intellectually dishonest.

-ClintJCL
http://clintjcl.wordpress.com/category/reviews/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/clintjcl

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It might had done well int the festival circuit but I can see why its rated low.

Its that man again!!

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This isn't directed at the OP (Opening Post), I'm on a phone, and the discussion board feature isn't very adequate.

The rating system anywhere, by anyone, are all flawed. All of them. People in rating a film, or television series/episode rate based on one main objective: whether they enjoyed it, or not. Sometimes they will take other aspects of the film (tv etc.,) into consideration but mainly it's based on whether they enjoyed it, or not.

I can only speak for myself in how I rate but the main factor(s) for me is whether I enjoyed it and whether it was coherent. Now, there are films that are purposely abstract and for those films I take other considerations into account but the main point of whether I enjoyed it, or not is always going to be my main factor.

This website attempts to regulate nonsense ratings. I've seen members here rate everything 1/10 and/or 10/10 and nothing in between. Those ratings are purely nonsensical just for the obvious fact that no film ever made is a 1/10 or a 10/10 to begin with. All films are in between ratings. The 1/10 and 10/10 come from enjoyment or just tastes.

I've seen people who only prefer classic films, and rate classic films at about average yet disliking some and rating 3/10 or below and liking others and rating 8/10 or higher but when they watched a contemporary film almost every single rating for them were 1/10. Why? It's not their genre of films. Classic films are. They will never enjoy anything but classic films.

Some people rate films low on here for the specific reason of having their favorite film(s) make the top 250 list. And some people rate films low so they will get on the bottom 100.

The site's means of combating such ratings seems to work, in my opinion. It may have certain films suffer for it but in an averaged rating they'd still hold to the basic positions they currently hold. And I think that's the point.

Look at that satirical film against North Korea: thousands of members rated it 10/10, most of which had never even seen it. Imagine if the system that IMDB has in place currently wasn't in place: that film would be at the top of the 250 list, and no other film could knock it from its place for a long while.

But with the system they have in place it was able to show the basic rating of what it actually would be even with the massive amounts of 10/10 it received.

To give another example, a member in this discussion, as I saw on their member page rated the TV show "The Big Bang Theory" a 2/10 or 3/10. I've rated that show a 10/10. Neither of our ratings are actually realistic based on the quality (of all episodes) of the show. If we rated realistically, taking everything into consideration of every episode, and then averaging them out then, I believe, my rating would be around 7-8/10 and their rating would be around 5-6/10 in actuality.

But no one really rates that way because it takes too much effort and time. And for those who do rate that way then, if one actually thinks about it, only their ratings would be of any significance.

So the model IMDB has in place currently I think is fair and balanced if you take everyone into consideration -- not just critics, or people who think they know what is good or not because it's all just opinion, in the end.

-Nam

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I am glad that IMDB have other criteria apart from user ratings although I suspect use ratings probably does have additional weight.

However the film has a low ranking because as a whole, despite its low budget, being an independent film, it is not that good.

It's that man again!!

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