I thought this movie was intended to shed light (no pun intended) on female, gender and woman issues. Sexism is present all the way -- but there is an inexcusable flaw in it, which is the low respect it has for the word 'whore'. Yeap, that's it. Whores are only degrading because men think such as them. Many feminist movements hope that the word whore won't be a bad word someday -- the movie tries to be feministic, but falls under male-centric culture. Bad ethnography there.
I don't think the film is trying to be feminist at all. It just happens to focus on two females. It was showing the empowerment, or in some scenes, the lack of empowerment, of these two individuals, but it wasn't trying to do that in a general sense when speaking of all women.
Even if many feminist movements want to remove the bad connotations from the word whore, it is an extremely derogatory insult in this day and age, just like it was 200 years ago. It was meant to be demeaning and in that sense it had the result it that was intended.
The plural of mouse is mice. The plural of goose is geese. Why is the plural of moose not meese?
I have never liked the word whore. I am not sure who would like the word whore to no longer be a bad word other than a "working girl". Even then, I think that they have other titles they prefer to be called now-a-days.
I know that when I was working as a massage therapist, because there were so many massage therapists out there that worked as more than theraputic massage, I had to set up my practice in a Chiropractor's office. When I was working in a "spa", I had one guy ask me why we called it a full-body massage if we were not going to massage his FULL BODY! Good question and yet so inappropriate! I had no answer for him other than to tell him what places that did what he was asking for. YIKES!
So whore can stay as it is.
As for showing the gender and woman issues, I think you are spot on! It shows that in many ways this is a man's world and woman should know her place. Thus the Captain brought the woman to the brothel and told her she should be grateful that he gave her a profession! Really now? Showing that women should be treated as a sex object. She never really walked away from it though and that was sad.
Hi, and greetings from nordic winds as well.
I believe the point with he word 'whore' is quite deep.
Nowadays we see a woman who sells her sexual favours to a man as degrading.
Perhaps one day we will respect this woman.
Thus, that's the time we will respect the word whore as well.
In my view the movie does not favour that.
Hello!
I do understand what you are trying to state. Maybe it is that I come from a background that the word just sit coldly in my very fibers. My step-sister and I had both been molested as children by her father. I took a path that I was lucky to not have the same fate as she had. She ended up selling herself for drugs and other favors to survive. Her father's reasoning was much like the Captain's, he was teaching us. In the movie, the Captain justified his behavior by "giving her a profession". He saw nothing wrong with what he was doing. My step-sister's father, he said he was teaching us what we needed to know so we could please our husband when we married. Yeah, like a marriage is all and only about sex!
I still feel sick when I even repeat it but, I feel the need to repeat it because that word was something I had been called many times over by my oldest daughter's father when I revealed to him what had happened to me as a 7 year old child. He told me I must have wanted it or I would have stopped it. He would keep me up all night fighting with me and calling me a whore and a slut and other names he could come up with. Again, I feel sick thinking about it.
So why is it that a man is so praised when has sex with a woman and a woman is disgraced?
I get it, that is what you may be trying to say is that there should be equality in the action. If it is consensual and there is payment involved, it should not degrade one or the other. But I do not see that day coming. Ever. I am not a person who hates men. I do not blame other men for what has happened in my life. I have worked to make myself a stronger person despite it all.
I do appreciate the insight that norcalnative puts forth. But regardless its origins and where it might land in years to come, the word just gives me such an ill feeling.
In the movie, they portrayed the character well. She did what she knew best and the term "whore" got the emotional reaction from those who viewed it, that they wanted. You, you would like to see the word less offensive. Me, I do not care how society changes its view to the word, it will always tighten my throat and give me that sense of being ill in my stomach.
Thank you for your insights. One day, the world maybe perfect, but not today.
Oh, my step-sister...she did not fair as well as I did. She was in Jacksonville, Tennessee... she was sent out on either a drug deal or a call. They found her lifeless body in the middle of the street with a gun shot wound to the head. This is what happens to "whores" in our society and that is what everyone considered her. She did not have anyone to save her. My Mom was not perfect, but she learned what was happening and got a divorce and did all she could to get legal results against him. He went to prison for other things. But she had to rely on what he taught her and it did not serve her well...
Sorry about being glum, but this is the reality of the word in my life...
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hi norcainative, yes, that starts answering the question. but of course, it's an awful theoretical way of putting it.
NordicWinds, thanks for sharing. I hope you come to terms with things. It is a tragic story. And it is also, for you, a story of overcoming. First and foremost, congratulations.
See, it is the way you feel about the word that is, in my view, a big cause of suffering. When a woman feels guilty or ashamed of her sexuality, her body or her sexual influence over men, the Captain wins. In other words, every time a woman is called a whore, a slut, a bitch, and feels bad about it, the captain wins.
It is curious that a few years a go, calling a woman a bitch was very offensive. When women started calling THEMSELVES a "bitch", it became a synonym of women empowerment -- a synonym for a woman who's merciless and with a strong will power, i.e.
I understand that in practice is very hard to change. Especially because it has to do with different matters and people's lives. To a point, women in general are haunted by the word whore. That's what a lot of women are fighting: just see the SlutWalk movements all over the word, taking a word that is offensive and appropriating it -- telling that women own their bodies.
A whore or promiscuous woman is considered bad by men and women for two different reasons. Men consider them bad due to them not being able to tell if their children are theirs or not. This is slightly less of a problem now with dna testing, dna testing can be refused by the mother though.
Women hate whores cause it means they are less able to use sex as a bargaining chip within marriage.
Feminists think whores are great mainly due to being sexually promiscuous themselves. Not because they take into account child parentage or loss of sexual power by women in marriage.
And although it does appear this film was 'pro-feminist', I don't think it is. The main female characters are basically losers even though they've been gifted with immortal life and beauty. Only at the end of the film where they are able to overcome their personal problems, do they get respectable. Eleanor finally accepts her role as a mother/leader (as the only female immortal and a mother who doesn't work as a prostitute) and Clara is able to open up emotionally to another person and falls in love. (Growing up into a woman and not remaining a child.)
Because if you look closely at the two womens histories, their ills are largely their own fault. Eleanor is seduced by money and goes with the stranger, even against the advice of his partner who was kind to her, she has sex with him then accepts her position as a prostitute at the brothel. Although it's not Clara's fault that she was abandoned at birth by Eleanor and subsequently raped as a revenge against her mother. She does choose to remain and remain dependent on her mother for 200 years.
@Subase--you have mixed up the two women. Clara is the mother and Eleanor is the daughter.
No the film was not feminist and your reaction blaming each woman for her problems is really not feminist, it's misogynist.
And all the pieces matter (The Wire)share
I would venture to say that statistically women probably use the word 'whore' much more often towards other women, than men do.
shareThe word "Whore" wasn't always an insult. For centuries it was a simple job description, nothing more.
Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?
~Groucho Marx
Historical context. You lack it.
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keep up the good white knighting. Im sure some one will give a crap some day.
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