MovieChat Forums > Exodus: Gods and Kings (2014) Discussion > Atheists shouldn't be directing Christia...

Atheists shouldn't be directing Christian films...


One of the main attractions of Christian films that makes it come alive are people who truly believe in what they're doing. Cecil B Demilles Ten Commandments did well be somewhere those actors and actresses had a belief in God or believed in the moralistic tenets of Christianity.

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Christians shouldn't have opinion of scientific findings or have anything to do with public policy but here we are.

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lol that false equivalency, doh.

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👍

Can you fly this plane?
Surely u cant be serious
I am serious,and dont call me Shirley

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Christians invented most branches of modern science. It was in the Christian West that science flourished. Atheistic Darwinism is a fairly recent belief system. Not unlike Scientology.

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That's some lovely historical revisionism you got going there.

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In the west? Well of course, it was after the Catholic induced Dark Ages, in the Renaissance when many discoveries were made by those branded as heretics by the church.

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Yeah well that's the thing with the renaissance. A lot of visionaries, geniuses and tallented men lived during this era. Plus, during this period, humanism became a thing (which was technically created during the Greeke-Roman period but was totally let down during the middle ages) and people started to doubt the religious superiority.

Despite all that, they didn't give up on Christianity but instead, tried to mix it with the new mindset that humans had a bigger value than we had been used to think. Even the greatest in the kind of Leonardo Da Vinci still gave a place to God in their hearts, only they refused to believe that God was the only answer and the only truth in our existence.

And due to these circonstances, even though the church was still present and had a considerable place in people's lives, it lost some influence because people gradually stopped leading their existences based only on "God's will".

One of the major factor to this change was the fact that people started to be educated and learned to read. With education comes knowledge, and with knowledge comes an opening of the mind, an ability to build opinions and a better judgment. So logically, some stories coming from the Bible (or simply from what the clergy was saying during the church services) didn't make as much sense anymore. Without discrediting Catholicism totally, it just lost the power. With time, this led to the creation of Protestantism, which was simply Catholicism with a new and less strict approach.

In the end, during the middle ages if the church didn't agree with someone's vision, that person was simply executed. The major progress with the Renaissance is that people finally started to act against "God's will" and dared to discover things for the purpose of science and human knowledge.

Still, it doesn't change the fact that the religion kinda put the progress of humanity on "stand by" mode for 1000 years.

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Just to correct you as you seem to be not aware, the whole Church is responsible for the Dark Ages is a myth and is largely unsupported by modern research. The Dark Ages are largely attributed to the fall of the Roman Empire and the societal collapse that followed. The view that the Catholic Church is responsible for halting human advancement for 1000 years is also incredibly west-centric as Christians are not the only advanced humans but also Roman Catholics weren't even the only advanced Christians.

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Galileo would like a word with you.

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Galileo would like a word with you.


People like Giordano Bruno would probably like to have more than just a word ... Bruno's punishment (public burning) was part of what made Galileo decide to toe the Church's line ...

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Galileo would like a word with you.


Your point? Galileo was a Christian who had disagreements with the Roman Catholic church.

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Disagreements? have you ever read history?

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What does Christianity have to do with ancient Egypt? Jesus of Nazareth was not born until 6BC.

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[deleted]

Just finish watching Zeitgeist for the first time?

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I suggest you look up the old Roman adopted Persian god Mithras. He interestingly has a lot in common with Jesus too. What I think many people fail to understand with Christianity is that it is not a singular static religion and never has been. Christmas isn't Christian; we adopted the Scandinavian winter festival, Yule, and repurposed it. The spring celebrations of many pagan religions, such as Beltane, have been converted by us into Easter. I'm far from a devout Christian, although I'd like to point out I can't stand Science either, but it is interesting seeing how religions are linked together, and in many ways I see people's problems with religion come from them being so similar, not incompatible.

Food for thought

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Myth vs. a real person who lived. Worn out canard.

Can you fly this plane?
Surely u cant be serious
I am serious,and dont call me Shirley

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Regardless, the point of the religion isn't in the figure it is based on, but more in the teachings and belief that come from it. More importantly, to discard a religion because the person it promotes is mythical misses the importance of religion; why do you think people spent centuries meeting every Sunday in one space, why religious figures have been used to bestow positions of power, decide on the morals of everyday life. Arguably, the first moralists were religious priests (the only targetted arguments against war in Medieval Christendom came from the church, calling for peace between Christians, although this was intended so that they could Crusade it is still evidence of early pacifism in a society ruled by a military aristocracy). I see the whole point of religion as a way of forming communities and bringing them together. Why else do priests over see marriage, birth, death and the weekly meeting of communities in on building.

If you're caught up and angry with Religion as a noun because it is full of gullible people resolutely expressing unwavering belief in a person who almost certainly didn't exist, you're missing the point I'm afraid.

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Now you sound like your on the other side




Can you fly this plane?
Surely u cant be serious
I am serious,and dont call me Shirley

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I understand both sides, but sit on neither.

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Not a good stance to hold.
"If you don't stand for something your likely to fall for anything."


Can you fly this plane?
Surely u cant be serious
I am serious,and dont call me Shirley

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You mistake neutrality for indecision. I see both sides of the spectrum and see both the faults and merits of both sides for what they are. Religions in the past, for which Christianity is a clear offender, has used belief to manipulate politics and wars. The Popes of Rome are responsible for war in the middle east and have justified the killing of Muslims as the act of the faithful, while also debasing the reputation of the Holy See through lavish and debauching lifestyles, and the encouragement of using the Inquisition to purge Christendom of Jews and Muslims.

The Ecclesiastical authorities have done nothing to encourage the participation in organised Religion. On the other hand, Religion has significant merits; the bringing together of communities, the source of all community related traditions like weekly worship, marriage, birth celebrations, commemoration of the dead, beginnings of pacifist movements (as stated before, and when taken with the Crusades can be seen as ironic).

The opposition to Regilion has similar merits and faults, more prominently amongst faults is hypocracy; Enlightenment writers, Voltaire springs to mind here, encouraged the dismissal of organised Religion for its enforced authority. Voltaire was a Deist, and as such didn't criticise the beliefs of Christians as other writers of the time did, but instead criticised the actions of the Catholic Church, particularly in reference to an earthquake in Lisbon. It is a fault of Atheists in particular to use logic and known science to pull apart the beliefs of Christians and try and force them into Atheism, believing to be doing a favour.

Christianity has its faults indeed. Delving into Catholic history requires some stomach at times, but that does not mean holding those religious beliefs and traditions is a crime in the face of nature. Similarly, there is reason to discredit these views with logic, but that does not excuse you to tell someone what to believe and what not to believe.

I am on neither side for a reason, and the biggest segment of this reason is that people tell me to take a stance, like you are now. I stand for something, but what I stand for is not being pushed to think something I don't believe in, which is what both Religion and your lack there of do.

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I still stand.
And Atheists, and Buddhists, and......
And who is pushing, forcing you?

Can you fly this plane?
Surely u cant be serious
I am serious,and dont call me Shirley

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I fail to see the point of your reply. Are you implying I'm focusing only on Christians here? If so, that was just evidence for my perspective. If you're asking who's pushing me? No general recollections of substantiated attempts to force my views in religion, but I've had people try to change my political views. However, I would have inferred from your post that included that quote that you were subtly questioning my views.

Could you please clarify exactly what you're trying to say here?

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I am attempting to show that to attempt to not stand for anything, is unrealistic.

Can you fly this plane?
Surely u cant be serious
I am serious,and dont call me Shirley

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Did I at any point in my post suggest that did not stand for *anything*. I thought I'd been very clear that I stood very strongly for neutrality, which is commonly confused with a lack of stance but in reality means completely the opposite. I choose to stand in neither camp for distinct reasons.

And the main reason I am in neither camp is that there are people in these camps that feel everyone should agree with them. I disagree with you that one should either be a practicing Religious, or an Atheist.

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Christianity is "new testiment" too

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Were you born stupid or did you take lessons?

Christians have always argued with scientists.

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[deleted]

Christianity--and religious belief in general-- IS the enemy of science.
You Christians have made sure of that.


Yeah, the 2.2 billion Christians in the world are sworn enemies of science.  Christians as a group are, far and away, the worlds wealthiest people. They did not get that way by adhering to the tenets of Luddism. By and large, Christianity has coexisted with, and supported, scientific advancement around the world for centuries. Occasional conflict with scientific pronouncements does not diminish this fact.

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"Occasional conflict with scientific pronouncements"

The above euphemism "occasional conflict" gave me a chuckle.

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"Christians invented most branches of modern science"

Really? Then pass on my thanks to these christians for The Theory of Evolution - that was a brilliant piece of work.

p.s. Can you christians please own up and let the creationists know it wasn't us atheists behind evolution - apparently they were being trolled by their fellow christians. Marvellous!


p.p.s. Also creationists, you might like to know it was a Catholic priest who first came up with the notion of The Big Bang!


"You've got lovely eyes Dee-Dee, never noticed them before, are they real?"

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Was Pythagoras a Christian? Did Christians invent Algebra?

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The subject was Science

Can you fly this plane?
Surely u cant be serious
I am serious,and dont call me Shirley

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Do you really believe what you just said? Wow. You should read some history books.

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You are an idiot.

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Christians invented slavery that's without a doubt.

"I'd like to see things from your point of view, but I can't get my head that far up my ass."

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Thank you for the laugh. The movie we are talking about is about Hebrew slaves and their freedom from the Egyptians,1300 years before Christ. Your username indicates Freudian indications of your personal confusion, just another troll.

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"Slavery can be traced back to the earliest records, such as the Code of Hammurabi (c. 1760 BC), which refers to it as an established institution."

wikipedia

Can you fly this plane?
Surely u cant be serious
I am serious,and dont call me Shirley

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[deleted]

no they did not, duh learn some history, knowledge was built civilization by civilization
I a agree they did a lot but Islam did a lot as well - this may surprise you!,
The Greeks did a lot
The Egyptiand did a lot
Indians did a lot - knew they earth was round way before Christians did and invented number system to count to high numbers
could go on and on, but your comment is not true entirely

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Hahah zing

Don't like what I'm saying? Then call 1800-Ima-CryBaby and ask for Waaaaaa.

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Yes. That's why it did so horrible at the movies. Because it was one of the best retellings of the story.

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[deleted]

So do you believe that people with no faith, or other faiths, are a-moral? That we aren't kind, or generous, or loving, that we don't live our lives being lawful, faithful to those we love, good parents, wives/husbands? Don't you think that we can find stories of bravery, loyalty, and liberation inspiring? After all if the Bible is based on historical events then it is history, and it is not reserved for only Christians. Most people live by a moral code. It has nothing to do what a belief in God or picking a religion. I actually believe in much of what the Bible teaches, because it tried to inspire people to be good and kind to everyone, no matter what their faith or beliefs. Moses lived in a harsh, cruel land, and if any of what is scribed is true, was an amazing human being. And he saved the Hebrews, not the Christians. Christianity was a long way off - almost 1500 years in fact. So climb off your bloody narrow-minded hypocritical high horse, have some gratitude that you weren't a Hebrew slave living in Ancient Egypt, and respect that other people live their lives just as morally as you do, despite what their beliefs might be.

It's too cerebral! We're trying to make a movie here, not a film!

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No I believe that a Christian shouldn't write a Buddhist, Confucius, Gay, Satanic, or witchcraft film if they don't believe in those tenets or principles.

And just as I believe that a person who is an atheist, satanists, gay etc. shouldn't write any films regarding a God they hate or despise. Really? What's the point? You can't stand the Bible so what is really the true agenda. The way Moses was written in this film made him out to be an agnostic or atheist. And some of the plagues were either made up or made to have a logical explanation as to not make it a miracle.

True Christian films are about, heart, love, passion, despair and having faith in a God that you can't see but think of as a father who you've been estranged from and trying to reconnect to have that spiritual connection you lost before entering this earthly realm. It's about learning to forgive, mend fences with the divine, yourself and mankind through everyday living and being humbled to the point that the divine can commune with you and strengthened at the same time from battling through the earthly passions of anger, violence, lust and sorrow.

True powerful films like Ben Hur, Cecil B Demille's Ten Commandments and the movie The Song of Bernadette" understood this. Those films were created to touch your heart and make you think.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Gay is not a religion. There are gay Christians despite what your protestant preacher told you. Maybe Catholics wouldn't like protestants making a religious film because their faith is different somewhat.

And atheists don't hate god, they just don't believe in any god. But again, your belief is that of hate and intolerance, shaming the teachings of Jesus.

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There are gay Christians despite what your protestant preacher told you

That's true, and some are even those same preachers such as Ted Haggard and that pastor that was caught recently soliciting gay sex on Grindr.

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True Christian films...

Oh, I see. You're under the mistaken impression that this supposed to be a "Christian film". Well, first of all, the story was a Jewish story before it was Christian one.

Second, the stories of the old testament are more than just religious, they're part of the Western Tradition, part of our culture's mythology. Same as the ancient Greek or Roman stories. They belong to all of us, and anyone of us has the right to tell it, even atheists.

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Oh, I see. You're under the mistaken impression that this supposed to be a "Christian film". Well, first of all, the story was a Jewish story before it was Christian one.


Speaking as a Christian, I need to say it always amazes me...when Christians think that the story of Moses is a purely Christian Story, when it is a Hebrew Story. fact ..Moses was not Jewish.

If anything..he was a Hebrew by Birth, may have belonged to the tribe of Levi... but was not of the tribe of Judah, therefore not a jew. So the story of Moses is not even Jewish.

If anything Moses was an Egyptian. Maybe not by birth, ( although even this is uncertain since there have been scholarly links made between The Hebrew Moses, and the Egyptian Pharoah Amenhotep IV/Akhenaten) but by upbringing and education.

Secondly, a lot of what is in the Book of Exodus that we attribute to Moses, was plagiarized from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. A religion that Moses followed for a large part of his early life...

I understand that many people do not believe the above, either because they think the entire thing is fantasy, Like Grimm's fairy tales among the atheists... or because they believe that it is the literal history of the early Hebrew people... among the Christians...

If anything.... The Story of Exodus,...is an Egyptian Story. So by the beliefs of the Original Poster, the ONLY person that can direct this movie would have to be a follower of the religion of Ancient Egypt. Neither a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, or an atheist should have directed this.

So we need to accept that the belief of the Original Poster, about atheists not beling allowed to direct the story of Moses is nonsense, ...or start hunting for Ancient Egyptian religion followers for the next version of this story.



Second, the stories of the old testament are more than just religious, they're part of the Western Tradition, part of our culture's mythology. Same as the ancient Greek or Roman stories. They belong to all of us, and anyone of us has the right to tell it, even atheists.


100 % true. I could not have said it better myself.

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I appreciate your perspective, however its very diluted and inaccurate. Keep in mind, these are not "stories" but a depiction of the Torah. You may want to consult with a Rabbinic authority for some clarification. As a Jew myself (both Mother and Father and generations before them), I would like to point out that according to Jewish law (halacha), if one is born by a Jewish mother, they are 100% Jewish. Even if they don't practice Judaism. Now regarding your statement about the tribes of Levi and Yehudah. The Shevatim (the twelve tribes of Israel) aka. Yaakov's twelve sons, all occupied ancient Israel at one point which was ruled by the Jewish religion. Going back to the Shevatim, the tribe of Levi were handpicked to have special status as they were the only tribe that did not participate in the golden calf incident. Whereas the other tribes did participate. The other tribes did not lose their status as Jews however. Out of 600,000 Jews, only 3,000 perished by the hand of G-d. The rest did teshuva (repentance). They agreed to keep the Torah. The whole Jewish faith is based on the oral and written laws given at Mt. Sinai and G-d picked Moshe Rebbeinu to be the Teacher of those laws (our Torah). He was always a Jew even while in Pharoah's house. On a side note, Moshe was born circumcised, which is required by Jewish law.

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On a side note, Moshe was born circumcised


Born circumcised? Sounds like a serious birth defect of some kind ...

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Like Christmas songs being written by Jews Oy Vey!

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I agree with you. This movie was a mess!!

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Reading what you have written Malayada I can see you are sadly an ignorant and close minded individual. The fact that you lump together atheist, satanists and gay people makes it quite evident that you see them as a work of the devil and evil without much separation between them at all. It's people like you that have either been brainwashed from an early age and don't know any better or are just living in a world where everything is black and white, good or bad. I feel sorry for you but that doesn't change the fact that you are part of the problem in our society and hail from the Salem witch trial, Spanish Inquisition type of backward thinking that has lead to complete and utter hysteria and unthinkable atrocities in the past. At least the people back then had the excuse of living hundreds of years ago while you continue to believe such nonsense in modern times and with so much knowledge about the world at your finger tips (but obviously not used in any manner what so ever). The fact that you think atheists hate or despise God is further evidence that you don't know what the Hell you're talking about. Atheists don't believe in God, therefore they wouldn't even bother waisting their time in doing so, that would be like you hating Peter Pan...pointless right? The fact that you have made such nonsensical statements shows that you are just another sad, boring, scared little person who doesn't have any opinions of your own and is blindly following other people's advice on how you should be living your life. It's natural to be scared of things we don't understand at first but those same things (or people) are often just misunderstood and when you realize that, you'll cease to be afraid of them and stop judging them.

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By your logic, a film maker shouldn't do a movie about Jeffrey Dalhmer unless the film makers and the actors are serial killers who are also cannibals.

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Wish I had posted this, sums it up beautifully.

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Atheists don't "hate" something they don't believe in. That would be nonsensical.

-Nam

I am on the road less traveled...

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The Ten Commandments is based on Jewish history, not Christian. Going by your logic, Christians shouldn't make films that aren't a part of their religion. Moses wasn't a Christian. Noah wasn't a Christian. Jesus wasn't even a Christian. Your god isn't even a Christian. Do you see where your logic fails?

Of course not.

Jesus wasn't born December 25th, and didn't die on whatever date Easter is on. Winter Solstice is a pagan holiday, Christians adopted it to not be persecuted for their beliefs. Easter (Eostre) is based on a pagan god, and celebration of that god.. Christians adopted it to not be persecuted. When they got power they claimed those dates as their own, and converted or killed the pagans who celebrated those festivals on those dates.

Tell me, what sacred holidays, festivals, etc., actually originated with Christianity? Do you see where your logic fails?

Of course not.

-Nam

I am on the road less traveled...

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You have issues. Because if you truly go by what was originally in the word it is stated that you hate God if you are vehemently for some of the behaviors he called sinful. Even Christians are told to avoid other Christians who do as the pagans do. There is suppose to be a difference. You can call it intolerance etc. But you're suppose to be able to walk into a room and automatically know who is a Christian by their behavior, actions and what they will or will not tolerate. And they don't have to act religious and holy or preach. You'll know it by the definition of what's written in the Bible and not a pagan's definition of what a Christian is. This movie is written from a pagan or secular point of view.
Christianity is not suppose to be so common where there's no reverence for the divine and it's all about being politically correct.

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You must hate Thor, Peter Pan and Tooth Fairy. Bro you are so funny.

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Seriously, this is as believable as Lord of the Rings, or Stargate, etcetera.

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That's what makes it sacrilegious. And then people love to blame God for this crazy crap that is going on in this world. It's because you don't realize you all are bringing curses upon the earth when you treat the divine like its something so common. That also goes for some of the so called Christians. I understand that there is some new questioning information coming out regarding the authenticity of the Bible, Christianity etc.but it doesn't mean that the bible is a mythology and that none of it was real so we can say and create whatever we want to.

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[deleted]

We're bringing curses on the world? You can tell who is Christian and who is not by walking into a room? Lol. You're a nutcase, I mean wow, are u listening to yourself? The scary thing about religion is there is no one to tell you that you're wrong and that what's spewing out your mouth is bat SH!T crazy NONSENSE!!! At least no one that you're actually going to listen to anyway.

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[deleted]

Stargate's real, man. I've seen it on TV and everything!

;-)

-Nam

I am on the road less traveled...

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You're kidding, right? It's a story, retold in various iterations. It's open to interpretation, as is any fictional BS. I'm guessing, all 500+ reviews/posts are from crazy Christians,aka Americans. Lol, childish, just like the majority of our religious citizens.

On another note, this is a movie. It has nothing to do with your opinion. Keep your anti - non believer issues within your private church, not here in the forums, troll.

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Hey Im an American and I don't believe that horse SH!T. Don't lump me in with those crazies. Lol

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Are you ok with a Christian making a movie about the story of Hercules?

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My Mother is a Born again Christian and she dragged me to a little movie called "Courageous." This film was produced and directed by like minded people, and as a man who questions such beliefs I found it to be quite laughable and juvenile in it's delivery. These films often appeal only to the converted. For those of us who don't believe or are on the fence about Christianity it can feel like u fell out of the tree of knowledge and hit every branch on the way down! You are being constantly bombarded by born again Christian ideology that has the subtlety of a local minister driving a dump truck full of holy water thru your living room to try to get you to convert. To those who are hardcore believers this may be good entertainment but to the rest of us it's not art, and it's borderline shameless propaganda. If Christian studios just want to cater to those who are believers well then fine, but for people who aren't believers or aren't believers yet then a story told and directed by a serious movie director like Ridley Scott may get them to be more open minded and willing to explore the material further. The man on the corner yelling about salvation rarely gets anyone to convert to his or her religion, it's the one who let's the curious come to them that often has more success.

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