Houses/living arrangements of Birgitte family and Katrine. - Borgen (2011) Discussion

[–] Jesper_the_Moose 12 years ago

There's a large house (called Marienborg) which is owned by the Danish state, and this is sometimes used by the Prime Minister and the family - usually, though, they just stay in their normal house.
I think news presenters in Denmark are paid a fair amount of money, but they aren't rich. Same as Danish actors, really - they aren't paid nearly as much as American or English actors.

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[–] AnneOnymous 12 years ago

Ok, tak! I found it quite interesting and wondered whether it was a true refelction of Danish political/celebrity life.
I also couldn't believe that the PM didn't hire a general housekeeper/childminder to do all the mundane chores and look after the kids, since both she and her husband could have afforded it and it would have given them more time, but I suppose it was just the character's choice, eh?

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[–] ssideup2010 12 years ago

Upon coming to PM position Birgitte says that it was their plan - each spouse gets 5 years to pursue his/her career, the other one stays at home and looks after the children. It didn't turn out the way they had planned, obviously :)

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[–] AnneOnymous 12 years ago

Yes, I do remember that, but I just thought they could have permitted themselves at least a few changes to help them along (and the husband did seem to keep on with his lecturing job, after all - he wasn't a full-time househusband).

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[–] Stirchley 11 years ago

the husband did seem to keep on with his lecturing job, after all - he wasn't a full-time househusband

This confused me in season 1. They allowed themselves 5 years each to pursue their individual careers, but he, apparently, did have a full-time job. I just could not see why he complained all the time.

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[–] poupartca 11 years ago

Judging from the job offer he had to turn down, I think Philip could have demanded high salaries and positions in business if he had freedom of action. I think the university job was a step down for him, and the way the family paid for what I assume would be relatively modest parliamentary pay.

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[–] Kegle2411 11 years ago

It's very normal in Denmark for both parents to have a full time job, while only one of them is actively focusing on furthering their career. This is doable because childcare usually lasts till late afternoon.

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[–] signemarie 12 years ago

There is no official PM residence if that's what you mean. They just keep on living in their own house, yes.

About Katrines small flat, yes, that's normal, too. Flats in central cph are small and expensive. Even with her higher than average salary, I would consider it extravagant for a young single person to own a say, 4 room flat in central copenhagen.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] SMORacka 11 years ago

Great thread. I was wondering the same thing. I'm not familiar with Danish politics, but I assume the role of a PM similar to that of a president. I live in Chicago and even a mayor who's below the president and governor would not worry about a clogged sink.

Katrine's salary at the paper was around $10,000 a month. That's a very good salary, but I would not expect her to live in a huge condo considering her lifestyle.

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[–] kkainz 11 years ago

The danish formula:
Good salary = high income tax

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[–] oakcourt 11 years ago

They make some bloody good TV though!

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[–] signemarie 11 years ago

Katrine would pay about 50% of that in taxes, that leaves her $5,000. A nice, rented 3 room appartment in central cph can easily set you back $3,000 a month with expenses. That leaves her $2000 for everything else, which is not bad at all, but doesn't make her rich either.

Salaries are high in Denmark, but so is living expenses and especially hired service. If you want to call someone to fix your sink, a prefessional wil charge you about $150 an hour. A non specialised handyman with no formal education would probably charge about $50 an hour. Because they have to pay taxes as well.

A housekeeper is very rare here. Those who have the money usually gets an asian au pair instead, forget everything about the original idea of au pairs, and thus get a housekeeper for less than $2,000 a month. Actually hiring an adult, professional (Danish) person to be at your house about 25 hours a week is very expensive, an estimate would be in the $4,000/month range.

To make $4,000 here, you need to earn $8,000. Hope this clears things up a bit.

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[–] SMORacka 11 years ago

Thank you.

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[–] ph75006 8 years ago

Wow, that's so interesting.

It's also interesting to learn about the cultural differences regarding domestic help.

I live in NYC and about 1/3 of the people (middle class income) I know have a cleaner that comes 1x/week to tidy up their apartments. When I lived in Paris, almost every single person had a weekly cleaner. When I lived in Hong Kong, everyone either had a live-in housekeeper or a daily domestic who'd come over to tidy up, cook dinner, and wash the dishes (she goes back to her own home in the evening). If the family had young kids, they would normally have a separate nanny to look after them. And this isn't restricted to wealthy families. Almost everyone had help of some kind. But then again, labor is also much cheaper in Asia.

I think it's wonderfully refreshing that the PM stayed in her original house and that she's not swarming with security personel. It brings her position down to earth, with the real people, where someone with her authority should remember to be. Unlike the high ranking politicians in the US who are so used to being pampered that they've lost touch with the people they were meant to serve!

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[–] Stirchley 11 years ago

I live in Chicago and even a mayor who's below the president and governor would not worry about a clogged sink.

True, but that's our American way of life, isn't it? We pay someone else to do everything for us.

One scene that did shock me a little in season 1 was when the P.M. was ironing a piece of clothing. As a woman, I felt like screaming at the TV - FGS, put away that iron!

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[–] dippegalant 11 years ago

In Denmark the government isn't as far removed from normal life and normal people as in many other countries. It's quite usual that the prime minister continues to live in the same house, while being in office.

Our current prime minister, Helle Thorning-Schmidt, lives in a normal house with her two kids while her husbond works and lives in Switzerland. Furthermore she co-owns a very smalle summer residence with some friends. A lavish lifestyle has never been the norm for danish prime ministers which quite often has a simple working background. Although there is an official residence available to the prime minister and her family, she only uses it in it's official context. Much like her predecessors.

It would be like if Barack Obama only works at The White House and goes home to the familys appartment at the end of the day.

Why is this so? Well, the job as danish prime minister isn't as taxing as being the president in many big countries. You can still take a normal stroll without being surrounded by hundreds or even thousands of people. In fact, the two predecessors enjoyed both frequenting bars/restaurants and running in public areas respectively. Security isn't as tight either and only a small detail of PET-agents (PET = Politiets Efterretnings Tjeneste = The Police's Intelligence Agency) will follow the prime minister around. The kids can attend public school without any problems and the spouse/kids often has no security detail at all.

As for the prime minister not having an assistant taking care of the children it's very much the same. It's quite possible for a prime minister to have a certain amount of normal life while being in office. If the prime minister also has a spouse to help out it would not be that difficult to make ends meet.

In Denmark the average wage is about DKK 350.000 (60-70.000 $) per year. We have a progressive taxsystem that secures that the people with the highest income also contributes the most. The top bracket kicks in at around DKK 450.000 (75-90.000 $). But we also have a large deduction at around DKK 42.000 plus a taxdeduction for working at around 7%.

In Katrine Fønsmarks example, she would have a salary of DKK 720.000 per year. A middlehigh income in Denmark, but not that high. She will pay around DKK 320.000 per year in taxes and would have around DKK 400.000 after taxes. An appartment with 3-4 rooms (which includes bedrooms, living rooms and dinner rooms) in central copenhagen would sell for anywhere between DKK 3-5 million. Renting such an appartment would cost around DKK 120.000 - 350.000 per year, so she would either have to rent something smaller, something more out of the way or something low quality.

It's also quite hard to find these appartments in central Copenhagen, so when you've got one you keep it!

I hope this gives You some insight into the danish capital and our mediapersonalities/politicians lives...

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] dippegalant 11 years ago

I'm not at all disagreeing, but the one doesn't rule out the other.

In fact the two explanations might very well compliment each other.

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[–] AnneOnymous 11 years ago

Thanks to you and everyone else who has given insight into politicians' and journalists' salaries and personal lives, and thanks for making great tv drama!

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[–] Stirchley 11 years ago

Our current prime minister, Helle Thorning-Schmidt, lives in a normal house with her two kids while her husbond works and lives in Switzerland.

So does the current Danish P.M. think this show is based on her life?

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[–] Stirchley 11 years ago

Our current prime minister, Helle Thorning-Schmidt, lives in a normal house with her two kids while her husbond works and lives in Switzerland.

As a Brit, I was very interested to see on Wiki that the Danish P.M. is married to a son of Neil Kinnock, the former leader of the Labour Party in the U.K.

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[–] lucyrfisher 9 years ago

I wondered too!

Also, Birgitte and Philip's house has three storeys - so why do they sleep in a room off the kitchen/living room? The house looks quite large, but seems very poky on the inside! They've got three floors - they must have loads of bedrooms!

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[–] dippegalant 9 years ago

Not really. In Denmark the ground level of houses are not that big. Even a three storey building often isn't any more than 150 m2 or 1600 square feet. That would translate into somthing like 2 bedrooms, a living room and a dining room (besides kitchen, bathroom and perhaps an additional toilet).

Zonal planning prohibits big homes many places and old buildings are heavily protected. There is a lot of rules and regulations on how you may or may not build on plots in Denmark and the plots themselves are not that big either. Plots are also very expensive in Denmark, as is the build costs themselves. It's not uncommon for a normal house to cost somewhere between $350k and $600k with a family earning around $150k a year on average with total taxes being around the 50% mark.

The Prime Minister in Denmark makes about $250k - $300k a year, but when they're not prime ministers and only members of parlament, they earn about $120k a year. After being prime minister most go on to do other things, perhaps they get elected to the european parlament or go on to international posts, like Anders Fogh Rasmussen becoming head of Nato for a while.

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[–] lucyrfisher 9 years ago

Thanks - fascinating! As Bent says (paraphrase), "We talk so much about the modern family in Denmark, where both partners work, but it depends on one partner giving up their career for five years." But Bent and Birgitte are politicians! Couldn't they address this? ;-) Perhaps the writers were sending a message - I hope so. It's the corrupting effect of trying to do the impossible. And I guess the writers' "high concept" was "Yes, but what if your wife becomes Prime Minister?".

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[–] Stirchley 11 years ago

Katrine is a very high profile anchorwoman on the main tv news, but she lives in a rather pokey little flat.

I presume the OP has never lived in NYC. Katrine is lucky she doesn't need roommates to cover the rent like so many New Yorkers do.

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[–] AnneOnymous 11 years ago

I'm aware of high rents in capital cities - London is as expensive as anywhere else in the world. My question was about a high-profile reporter having to slum it like anyone else - can you imagine Kate Bolduan in a bedsit?

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[–] Stirchley 11 years ago

can you imagine Kate Bolduan in a bedsit?

Who is she?

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[–] AnneOnymous 11 years ago

Haha, well I don't actually know, but I googled CNN to see who their newsreaders were, and she is one of them apparently. Not that famous, I gather. Anyway, I should have said, *insert most well-known news anchor here*.

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[–] Stirchley 11 years ago

^I never watch the news on TV so I am unfamiliar with most anchors.

BTW, we don't have "bedsits" in America. I'm British and I remember them very well in England, but I don't think they exist here and certainly not described by that term.

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[–] AnneOnymous 11 years ago

I get all my news from the radio and internet myself, so totally understandable!

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[–] redbellypig 10 years ago

In North America a bedsit is known as a bachelor apartment.

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[–] calisson 10 years ago

BTW, we don't have "bedsits" in America. I'm British and I remember them very well in England, but I don't think they exist here and certainly not described by that term.

In the U.S. the equivalent might be "studio apartments." They certainly exist!

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[–] Stirchley 10 years ago

^I've lived in both and a bedsit is not a studio. A bedsit in the U.K. is a a really tiny place where you may or may not share a bathroom. (Most likely you do share.) The bedsit would have only a hotplate type of arrangement for heating food: there would be no kitchen facilities other than a small sink (maybe).

A studio apartment (such as the one I had in Manhattan) is an apartment without a separate bedroom. The sleeping arrangements are either part of the living room (as were mine) or, preferably, in some kind of alcove, where there is more privacy. I had a separate kitchen, but I have seen studio apartments where the tiny kitchen was part of the living room/bedroom arrangement. Some studio apartments have Murphy beds, which do afford more space to the tenant.

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[–] calisson 10 years ago

OK, I stand corrected!

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[–] Stirchley 10 years ago

^I'd like to add that a bedsit in the U.K. (presuming they still exist) is an ideal way for a young person to live who is on his or her own, but cannot afford much in terms of rent. I knew several people in London who lived in bedsits and it was a great way to live in an expensive capital without huge expenses. (Hey, when you are young and single, comfortable living arrangements are not so important if you want to live in an exciting city.)

Something else I just thought of: in New York City (other places too, I presume) there are SROs - single-room occupancies. I think they are only for men who are out of work, that kind of person. I know there used to be a lot of them in the Bowery.

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[–] calisson 10 years ago

Maybe these up and coming "micro-apartments" are the descendents of bedsits--minus the affordability, of course....

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[–] ChloeBean 10 years ago

I was wondering about that also. From the few episodes I've watched they are in an ordinary house. Didn't notice any security detail at the house...when the ex-husband came to visit the door was opened without any caution.

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[–] bcstoneb444 9 years ago

My comments are based only on Season 1. Anyway I've been wondering the same thing myself. Assuming Birgitte and her husband would live in the same house, didn't it ever occur to them to hire a housekeeper/ maid / cook, etc. Certainly the PM's and the husband's salary could afford something along those lines.

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[–] pbn 9 years ago

They could afford help, but their choice is fairly realistic. The current real-life Danish prime minister, Helle Thorning-Schmidt, is said to have a housekeeper once a week, but does a lot of her own shopping, cooking, laundry, etc.

--
Peter

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