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Zombie bites: Toxic or activating the "virus"?

posted 4 years ago by aavfreak (2859)
22 replies | jump to latest

I've seen a lot of debate on this topic in the years that this show has been on, but I don't think there's anything definitive on-screen in the show that says for sure.

Some people believe that walker bites are dirty and full of bacteria. The toxicity of the bite causes infection, which kills a person, then they turn. I was solidly in this camp for the longest time.

However, others believe that the bites activate whatever pathogen causes the dead to reanimate and it's that activation of the pathogen that kills the living host.

Early in the show, I would always argue for the first, since it made logical sense within the context of the world we know. Kind of a default position without further information. In other words, the second theory only made sense if there were something in the show that indicated that's how it worked. In the absence of anything indicating the "activation" theory, I would default to the "toxic" theory.

However, after giving it a little more thought, either is valid and I don't think anything is shown to conclude one over the other.

So which do you think it is? Please discuss.

[–] Moonglum9 (10702) 4 years ago

I'll go with toxic. Rumor has it that the zombie virus started when it mutated and jumped species from komodo dragons to humans.

[–] aavfreak (2859) 4 years ago

I heard it was from eating komodo dragon soup from an open air market in China.

[–] Moonglum9 (10702) 4 years ago

Then you've heard the same rumors as I. Komodo dragon wang soup to increase virility. If there's one thing the Chinese need, it's to have more kids.

[–] aavfreak (2859) 4 years ago

It seems that the Chinese will eat the wang of any animal in the pursuit of virility.

[–] Alex (1477) 4 years ago

Roflmao! I was in the middle of reading your post and your last sentence is the first thing that popped into my head.

[–] PaladinNJ (20308) 4 years ago

LOL

[–] RogueDemonHunter (2645) 4 years ago

The only logical explanation is that everyone bar a perhaps a small % of people that are immune were infected from something dumped onto Earth from space. Freak bacteria/alien biological weapon. I believe this has been confirmed by the comic's writer.

The bites/infection kills the person and allows the virus/whatever to take over and control the person as a zombie. Personally I feel it is a dumb mechanic and bite/infected wound/transfer makes way more sense than some magical world wide space virus.

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

But then there would be people who die who do not become zombies?

[–] RogueDemonHunter (2645) 4 years ago

Indeed.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

thing is , the show established early on that everybody already has "zombie disease" , and if they die they will walk regardless of if they've been bitten or not.
...but You're fine until you die ...
and yet somehow a zombie bite will kill you , even though you already have the ... er , thing.

just let me spool my bullshit plothole macguffin retconn explain-o-tron up and I'll give this a crack...
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ok , so the virus is space rabies or a bioweapon , like someone else said...
Everyone's got it , but our immune system can keep it under control .
When you die , immune system gives up , the virus takes over AND crucially , without the immune system the virus grows in potency so that an immune system cant fight it when the walker bites someone. so they die quickly.

[–] RogueDemonHunter (2645) 4 years ago

Interesting theory. I don't know enough about viral infections or the cause of death with infections. I would have thought it would be organ failure so it needs enough time to get around and do it's damage.

[–] aavfreak (2859) 4 years ago

Excellent. Just where did you get your bullshit plothole macguffin retconn explain-o-tron? I've been looking for one for ages.

When you die , immune system gives up , the virus takes over AND crucially ,without the immune system the virus grows in potency so that an immune system cant fight it when the walker bites someone

I think I see what you're going for here, but it's not quite complete. Are you saying that because the immune system of a dead person can't fight the "virus" that it grows in potency. And it's the potent version of the thing (in the undead only) that causes their bites to be fatal? That's not far off from the "activation" theory, I don't think.

[–] Mister Babadook (2621) 4 years ago

I mean we've seen people die from stuff unrelated to walker bites, like stab wounds and they came back as a zombie, everyone is infected and the virus activates when they die.

The bite itself isn't what turns people, the bite gives you a deadly fever that kills you, whether it be from bacteria or whatever, but the bite isn't what causes people to turn, as i said people have died from stab wounds, gunshots etc and still turned when they died.

[–] aavfreak (2859) 4 years ago

Yes, that's plainly understood.

The question is about those that die from a bite. Are they dying because the bite is toxic, causing death by infection or because the bite activates the pathogen, causing death and turning?

Over the last 10 years I've heard arguments for both.

[–] ILJtheFirst (1925) 4 years ago

Given the show's history, I doubt they've been consistent with either theory.

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

If it was just a normal bite the people would die from different things,
and people who cleaned their wounds might not die at all.
So, there must be something unique in the bite that is connected to
the zombification of a person.

Occam's Razor tells us to first go with the simplest explanation that
fits the facts, so we know two things:

1) people who are bit die and turn into zombies.
2) people who die in any way turn into zombies.

So, there are two things at work here. An infection that takes over
when someone dies and turns them into a zombie, AND something
in a zombie's bite that infects and kills people.

My question would be, how long after you are a zombie would
your bite be fatal?

[–] aavfreak (2859) 4 years ago

This is a good comprehensive summary of the conversation over the last 10 years.

Here's the thing: according to what we see in the show, a bite is 100% fatal (unless on a limb that is cut off immediately). There is no recovering from it, regardless of cleaning or antiseptics or antibiotics. This leads me to believe there is more to it than just a dirty bite causing infection.

So, left with that, either a bite "activates" whatever pathogen has infected everyone or there is a third option at play where bites are 100% fatal on their own for some unexplained reason.

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

Well, a given antibiotic does not work on everything, and maybe the zombie bug is super toxic and powerful, but that doesn't mean it is supernatural. The thing is ... how would these two things happen together at the same time if they were not connected in some way. That is one thing I forget to mention in my previous post. I will edit that.

Or, it is just something in the horror-movie world of "The Walking Dead" that doesn't make any sense in the real world! ;-)

[–] stratcat45 (114) 4 years ago

Actually Season 1, Episode 6 at the CDC....Edwin Jenner explains that "death" triggers "something" in the brain which gets the body up and moving. It also explains why you don't have to be bit to turn. Humans already have what turns you in your brain, therefore "All Are Infected". The show however never explains what this is or where it came from.

A lot of the "zombie" movies show it as a bite causing reanimation which is why so many people get confused with what the cause is. But the show has actually spelled it out and as long as someone who dies from a cause other than a bite still gets up and "walks"...then the pathogen causing the reanimation isn't correct.

I always viewed it as 2 different things: an infection from a bite and the "thing" already in the brain that gets activated upon death.

Maybe the bite infection has a cure that hasn't been discovered yet due to the collapse of society; we do know that the bite infection can be stopped by amputation.

Good topic!!

[–] aavfreak (2859) 4 years ago

It's clear from the show that after death "something" activates the brain.

The controversy has always been about why a bite kills. Does it kill because it's a dirty toxic infectious thing? Or does it kill because it activates the "something" resulting in death and reanimation?

I always viewed it as 2 different things: an infection from a bite and the "thing" already in the brain that gets activated upon death.

This is the direction I lean, mostly due to the logic of it. However, there's nothing conclusive in the show and a case can be made either way.

The "activation" theory is based on the idea that a bacteria filled bite *should* be able to be cured with antibiotics, combined with the idea that a recently turned zombie shouldn't have a mouth any dirtier than the living human it just was. And since the bite is 100% fatal, then it must be related somehow to activating the "something" even before death/reanimation, otherwise it would be a curable condition in some cases.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 4 years ago

If the people are already infected and the bite is linked to the virus, then what if a healthy person bites someone?

[–] aavfreak (2859) 4 years ago

Very good question. If we were to argue for the position of "activation", then nothing. It would take a walker with an activated version of the pathogen to bite and subsequently activate the pathogen in a healthy person.

Again, I don't hold this position, I just know that arguments can be made to support it - that it takes a zombie bite specifically, to activate the "virus" in a living human, causing death. Or it activates on its own after death from any cause.